Cost to maintain and own a FWC? Realistically...

[RC Pilot Jim]

Shear,
Stan said they up graded the mattress in 2013 from 4" firm to a 3" medium soft with favorable feedback.

 

[Oryguntroutbum]

I haven't slept in mine yet but I crawled up there yesterday. The mattress was firm but comfortable. I didn't bottom out when lying on my side. I'm encouraged but I think we can all agree you have to sleep on a few times to really figure out if it's going to work. I just got a great deal on an Alp's double sleeping bag at Sierra Trading post. Very thick bag that I think will add to the comfort of the mattress.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/alps-mountaineering-20-f-sleeping-bag-double-wide-rectangle~p~3241y/?filterString=s~alps-double-sleeping-bag%2F&colorFamily=01

 

[Miketeleskier]

Why I didn't replace the threeway with a compressor refrigerator - a 5 gallon tank of gas can keep a refrigerator cool for literally weeks while also cooking with gas. Electricity is the most stressed commodity in the camper (along with water, only 13 gallons in a 1993). The draw of a refrigerator compressor refrigerator means generating electricity by solar, generator, or driving virtually every day. Even then, it takes much longer than you think to recharge batteries.

Why not a new camper? I'm kinda stubborn and like the old one just fine. We've developed our ways of living in this small space winter, spring, summer, and fall. I'd rather repair almost anything than just buy a new one.

That said, there are some real advances in the newer FWCs.

First and foremost, they've doubled the matress thickness. 2" inches was like sleeping on a concrete slab even 22 years younger. We solved the problem by purchasing two 2" Thermorest "Camprest" matresses that make the overhead bed acceptably comfortable and quite warm in the cold.

FWC increased the water capacity from 13 gallons to 23. We can go 3 - 4 days without water unless we shlep around a couple of 5 gallon containers of water.

The rest of the stuff like water heaters and wasting space on showers and toilets is a non-starter for me. The space is small anyway and is needed for simply living in it. Two people need two places to lie and read comfortably and we need two places for watching dvds. That just doesn't happen in a small camper crammed with too many amenities.

Also, the size limits on files here makes uploading meaningful pictures of my modifications to my camper pretty much impossible.

View attachment 18480

 

[MarkBC]

.....

Also, the size limits on files here makes uploading meaningful pictures of my modifications to my camper pretty much impossible.

stuck on Shasta small.jpg

Isn't the size limit 500 kb per post if you use the "Attach Files" approach? That should be several useful-size pics.
If you first upload the photos to somewhere else -- Photobucket, smugmug, etc. -- or the WTW Gallery, you can insert at least a dozen 900 x 600-pixel photos (assuming a modest level of jpeg compression) per post.

The two options explained here.

 

[Vector1]

Hey, everyone. I'm a new poster (after lurking for a few years), and I'm really glad I found this thread. I've been going around in circles about campers in general and about a new FWC in particular and I need a little hand-holding before I take the big step. I know this forum is where everyone comes with their problems and that folks who are happy with their campers tend to go on quietly with their business and rarely post, so there's a sampling bias. I also notice there are folks with years of experience and serious tech skills who to have no problem taking on major repairs. Unfortunately, that's not me.

My remaining hangups are still around maintenance and overall build quality--and reliability after a few years. The threads about wiring problems, tie down failures, leaking windows, and "spend a few nights in the camper before you get very far from the factory," etc. still give me the willies. I'm not opposed to doing maintenance and taking care of my stuff, but a succession of repairs like I mentioned would be a deal-breaker.

For the time being, I don't have access to many tools or a shop. I live in Central Oregon (600 or so miles from Woodland), will be camping year round mostly on the east side of the cascades, and will need to leave the camper on full time. Everything else I see and read about FWC's sounds so good, especially for use off pavement.

I know those of you with lots of FWC experience find yourselves reassuring potential buyers over and over. But I'm guessing there are lots of folks like me in the background who read this forum and are concerned about quality: Are these campers maintenance intensive or prone to major (and minor) issues?

Any more thoughts or recommendations or warnings (in addition to what's in this thread) will be greatly appreciated. I've learned a lot just reading this forum over the past few months so, many Thanks for that, no matter what.

 

[MarkBC]

Hey, everyone. I'm a new poster (after lurking for a few years), and I'm really glad I found this thread. I've been going around in circles about campers in general and about a new FWC in particular and I need a little hand-holding before I take the big step....

I know those of you with lots of FWC experience find yourselves reassuring potential buyers over and over. But I'm guessing there are lots of folks like me in the background who read this forum and are concerned about quality: Are these campers maintenance intensive or prone to major (and minor) issues?

Any more thoughts or recommendations or warnings (in addition to what's in this thread) will be greatly appreciated. I've learned a lot just reading this forum over the past few months so, many Thanks for that, no matter what.

One important thing to remember about posted problems: People who are satisfied with a purchase generally don't bother posting that fact. So posts are usually significantly biased towards the problems (this applies to anything: campers, cars, computers, cameras...).

My FWC Hawk is 9 years old, so I can't vouch for the quality of newer vintages...but I've had no issues. Any "maintenance" I've done (other than cleaning or applying 303 to the vinyl) has been to add something -- not fix anything.

 

[takesiteasy]

...Any "maintenance" I've done (other than cleaning or applying 303 to the vinyl) has been to add something -- not fix anything.

This is my experience also. Our ATC shell is a bit over 2 years old. We've made some minor modifications but nothing I would call maintenance problems or other issues.

 

[jha6av8r]

We've had our FWC Grandby for 2 years now and use it at least monthly. The next trip will be over Christmas and New Years to either Death Valley or Anza-Borrego. It is pretty well equipped with everything except inside shower and porta-potty.

Much like Mark our maintenance has mainly been cleaning. Things I wish I knew prior to purchase would have been how to size a solar system. I feel FWC counseling lacking on the subject. Our system works, but it should have been larger, 150 to 200 watts instead of 90. They should have been able to tell me how much solar was needed that to run a 110L compressor fridge without worrying too much about my batteries needing an external top off every 4 or 5 day.

I had two other issues that needed to be corrected. One was my original SunSaver6 had to be replaced which was under warranty. The other involved venting my compressor fridge properly to the outside which required a trip to the factory.

Other than that, we've been very happy with our camper.

 

[craig333]

Sure I posted a repair issue. Keep in mind thats after ten years of serious off road use and I'm more than willing to entertain the idea I was at least partially at fault also. I may have overtightened the turnbuckles and I sure as heck drive too fast off road.

Keep in mind almost everything needs maintenance. Your house needs annual painting and new roof every so often. The question is is it excessive. I don't think so. Considering it stays outside in all kinds of weather, gets rattled around even driving to work etc, its not bad. Use the 303, make sure no leaks develop and don't "abuse" it and you'll likely do not much more than occasional cleaning.

Also, WandertheWest is a community. Its not just a place for people who are interested in campers. We share our good times and our bad times. The good stuff and the bad stuff its all important. Places I should or shouldn't visit. Things I may or may not want to do to do the camper.

I post something like my turnbuckle repair not to piss and moan but to inform and educate. Hey watch out this could happen to you and this is how I fixed it. Another is so I can get feedback. I'm handy but by no means and engineer or a mechanic. If someone sees my repair and goes, hey dummy theres a better way, I'm happy to hear it.

Now last but not least. I love my camper. I haven't regretted purchasing it for a moment. I don't plan on getting rid of it until I'm too old and decrepit to climb into the bed. Theres a few things I'd change knowing what I know now but thats life. My only real complaint is it doesn't see enough dirt Not having been to CO and Baja, thats my only regrets!

 

[MarkBC]

Great post, Craig.

 

[Riverrunner]

My remaining hangups are still around maintenance and overall build quality--and reliability after a few years. The threads about wiring problems, tie down failures, leaking windows, and "spend a few nights in the camper before you get very far from the factory," etc. still give me the willies. I'm not opposed to doing maintenance and taking care of my stuff, but a succession of repairs like I mentioned would be a deal-breaker.

Having grown up with RV's, having had a few myself, and have friends that have them as well, I don't think it really matters what brand it is, there will be maintenance and issues of you use it. Even if I bought an Earthroamer or an XP, I'd do a shakedown run before I got very far. Nature of the beast. I got my FWC used and have had a couple of problems. It's 9 years old and was taken care of but it has some miles. Being able to fix most of it myself is big saver. Mine has a screwed on roof and the sealant will wear out and it did. A few hours of work and she's been dry as a bone inside after about 8" of rain so far this winter.

I don't regret it and it's been the best RV I've had. I wish I had bought one sooner and skipped the last camper I had. While most may come here to solve problems, WTW is a forum of enthusiasts who use their rig and will candidly talk about it. We are only a small percentage of owners and my guess is most of use our gear harder than most. One can sit and read the forums as lurker and do a lot of hand wringing about the quality of this that and the other thing. The rest of us are using (or trying too) our rigs and enjoying it.

 

[PaulT]

Vector1,

I'm a FWC newbie and lurked and read for more than a year before making the plunge this year. I went to the PDX Sportsman show in 2013 and 2014 to spend time looking at the available campers that might work well on my 2010 Tundra. There were several brands that seemed to be fine choices but FWC won me over. Wander The West was a major contributor to my choice. ATC may be just as good but I have yet to see one in person.

The major issues that I have encountered in my limited time owning a 2014 Hawk are my lack of understanding about realistic battery usage with the 110L compressor fridge and realistic available solar energy to recharge the batteries, how the battery isolator works and generally limited documentation on camper wiring. The quality of components and build quality all seem to be at the upper end of what one might expect. While mine is new, I have seen nothing that gives me pause in recommending a FWC to a good friend for purchase.

I look forward to many years of use and hope to meet some of the regular posters on this site. Wander The West is a valuable source of ideas and solutions to problems, and best of all, making me aware of places I never knew existed and that must be visited, The quality of photos published here are second to none. Thanks to all those so generous in publishing them here.

Paul

 

[Smokecreek1]

Maintenance? Almost nothing. Customizing? Could be a lot depending on the number of cool ideas you pick up from WTW.

Ya got that right, min preventative maint keeps things running great, but once I got into solar, costs jumped-spend more to more independent, and save in the long run, so things even out ! Use the 33 and check things and you will be okay.

Smoke

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I guess the real question to pose is would you buy another one?

My answer is yes.

I can't speak can't speak for other people, or brands other than FWC, but I suspect most would give the same answer.

Was my camper absolutely 100%, no issues perfect. No, but it is real close. I've also got a two year old Airstream, and I think the FWC build quality is actually better.

 

[Vector1]

Thanks to all for responding so honestly and so quickly. Sounds like most of you will be using the camper like I'm planning, and I'm getting positive yet pragmatic opinions--no sales or rationalizations. I'm a total coward when it comes to spending cash, but it's sounds more and more like something I want to do.

MarcBC: Yes, Every time I'm ready to drop the dime, I read about another problem that others seem to share and I lose my resolve. And I understand how these these vehicle and rv forums end up making the brands look unreliable. But when you write that you've had yours for nine years without major issues, you've got my attention. Thanks.

takeiteasy: I've heard good things about ATC as well and how the companies are related. Sounds like they're both based on a sound concept and little competition is not a bad thing.

JVH6av8r: Thanks for the heads up on the solar. It's something I'm seriously including. Also for the extra fridge venting. Makes sense.

craig333: I want to go into this with my eyes wide open, so reading about the turnbuckle issues was definitely worth reporting and reading. I think when someone like me is just learning about FWC, their (my) tendency is to overreact, so I appreciate your honesty and the valuable info. I also appreciate your words about the forum as a community. There seems to be a minimal amount of conflict and drama and a lot of helpful advice. When I read your comment about having no regrets and not wanting to get rid of it, Well, that's what I'm looking for.

Thanks all for your thoughts. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Vector1]

I guess the real question to pose is would you buy another one?

My answer is yes.

I can't speak can't speak for other people, or brands other than FWC, but I suspect most would give the same answer.

Was my camper absolutely 100%, no issues perfect. No, but it is real close. I've also got a two year old Airstream, and I think the FWC build quality is actually better.

I'm reading and hearing comments like this more and more. Your statement re. comparison with the Airstream is significant.
Thanks.

 

[longhorn1]

We took delivery on our Grandby in August and have spent 13 nights camping. I spent 2 years researching pop-up campers. Outfitter and Hallmark make quality products, but there cost came close to double the Four Wheel Camper. I'm very happy with our camper. To date, we haven't had anything to be concerned with.

The nice thing about Wander the west is that when problems do come up and they are shared, others step in and offer advise. FWC has been great about recognizing that something is happening to multiple campers and they have made changes to correct these problems (i.e. broken wires on the older campers behind the lift panels, the addition of a strengthening plate with .lift assist, and the tie-off brackets on the underside of the camper,) They continue to make improvements. FWC pays close attention to this web site.

We are very please with our decision to purchase a FWC and we believe you will also. Best of luck. Longhorn.

 

[idahoron]

Vector1, I was a fence sitter for around 20 years, I got mine last August. It was something that was a huge purchase for me. My house was 27,000 when I bought it. My camper was 18,000 and I was worried that I was not being smart. I fought with myself for a long time and my wife was the one that said lets do it! If I didn't have her backing 100% I would never have done it.

The quality on mine is first rate. I have not had one problem with mine other than after I left with the new camper the turnbuckles were loose and one fell off. I put jam nuts on the right hand hooks and never had a loose turnbuckle again.
I was sleeping in my camper shell for about 9 years on short hunting and fishing trips so the FWC is a huge step up. That being said there are a few things that I was not wild about.

#1 condensation. I delt with it a little in the camper shell but the camper seems a little worse than the shell was at times. Keeping turnbuckle doors cracked and windows open a bit helped and I am able to minimize it.
#2 They are a LOT heavier than I was led to believe. The plate says dry weight of 850 pounds or something like that. My hawk empty is 1280 pounds. I am sure that the 850 pound weight was for a empty shell.
#3 fuel consumption is WAY more than I thought it would be because of the drop top. I lost a solid 5 MPG.
#4 I wish there was enough space to have a little more propane onboard. I have ran out on my tank a couple times and one time my bait thawed and that was not good.

Would I buy it again?? Yes I would! My wife and I use it as a get away a lot. We go to Boise Idaho a lot just to hang out. It is about a 2 hour drive for us and we stay overnight at a real nice camp ground. The extra space I have while hunting and fishing is AWESOME! I have more space and I have a lot more privacy than the camper shell. The freezer keeps my bait frozen until I get in my boat. Overall I love the camper. If I were to do it again I would have ordered the furnace, and the back flood lights even though they are stupid expensive. Other than that I would not change a thing. Well except the mattress, I got to replace that thing.

 

[craig333]

One thing I forgot. You hear a lot about us making small modifications. Even have a thread devoted to it. In the interests of being completely honest though, I have a confession. Its not that some of these things aren't useful its just that well, a lot of us like to tinker with out campers. Its almost a compulsion. I'm looking to put in a paper towel holder. Do I need one? Not really. They sit under the sink just fine. I just want one.

I can't ask for an intervention here, they'd just show up with tools

 

[Vector1]

longhorn1: Hallmark was on my final list, too. So was Alaskan. But when I see them on trucks in camp grounds, they look huge given what I've got planned which is mostly siwashing off USFS roads and a night or two in hunting camps. The feedback between this forum and FWC does enhance the deal. There just doesn't seem to be as much buzz about the other brands. (Could be good, could be bad!)

idahoron: I too have been stewing about it a little (lot) obsessively, but for me, too, it represents a big investment. I've looked at LOTS of campers over the past few years, but I keep coming back to the FWC. This forum is part of it, but also the enthusiasm around FWC that seems missing from the other brands--the loyalty. Thanks for including your reality check on weight, fuel consumption, etc. I'm prepared to deal with condensation and the mattress, but your overall positive response leaves me optimistic. (Thawed out clam necks or squid in the freezer on a hot summers day might be another matter!)

craig333: That compulsion to keep modding seems like a good sign. So does the fact that folks like fixing up the older FWC's. I like fussing with certain equipment too (I tie flies and build rods), but I'm facing a steeper learning curve on the campers, so I'd like to make sure my energies can go elsewhere.