Couple things I noticed at 5 degrees F.

[steve whiteside]

Hey everyone,

Ive had my Grandby camper for a few months. I was just up at Mammoth Mtn skiing and camping for 3 nights. I used my heater while sitting around but then would turn it off and bundle up while sleeping. Im a light sleeper and didn't want the fan kicking on and off. Two of the nights were at 14F and the last night was at 5F. The first night it snowed about 2-3 inches. Other than that it was 40F in the day and then cold and clear at night. I was intent to get a good RV parking spot at the ski resort so I would leave my camping spot in the dark at 0615 each morning,

- I didn't have a condensation issue like others reported, although it was just me in the camper. I DID keep one of the upper vents open - about an inch and one of the windows with a 4" triangle open on the upper corner.

- Before bed I would get the water heater totally hot and then turn off the water heater. I had read that the heat leaking out of the water heater tank would keep things from freezing. Not true in my case. I would wake up to an ice icicle coming out of the faucet and it would take hours for the water to flow. Not sure exactly what to do going forward. I guess my next plan is to leave the furnace heat on the lowest setting and put up with the furnace noise. Perhaps instead just leave the water heater turned on and hope that that would prove enough intermittent heat to keep things liquid. I seem to have no damage after the trip to my water system.

- I had a hard time getting the cold/stiff vinyl sides to collapse correctly to pull the roof down. It was a pain in the butt to get 6 latches latched with the stiff sides. That colder morning it was all I could do was 5 latches and I left that 6th one unlatched as I drove off.

- I took a heated blanket that pulled about 180w while it was turned on. It was super nice to use to heat up my sleeping bags for the first 30 minutes of getting in. I had two zero degree bags inside of each other.

All in all I learned a few things and have a few lessons learned for next time. Plan to take my wife in Jan on the same trip. We will see how that goes. I bought a luggable loo for her. For me I would put on my shoes and trudge out in the snowy bushes to do my business- she isn't crazy about that.

Steve

 

[Rockaway]

Hey everyone,

Ive had my Grandby camper for a few months. I was just up at Mammoth Mtn skiing and camping for 3 nights. I used my heater while sitting around but then would turn it off and bundle up while sleeping. Im a light sleeper and didn't want the fan kicking on and off. Two of the nights were at 14F and the last night was at 5F. The first night it snowed about 2-3 inches. Other than that it was 40F in the day and then cold and clear at night. I was intent to get a good RV parking spot at the ski resort so I would leave my camping spot in the dark at 0615 each morning,

- I didn't have a condensation issue like others reported, although it was just me in the camper. I DID keep one of the upper vents open - about an inch and one of the windows with a 4" triangle open on the upper corner.

- Before bed I would get the water heater totally hot and then turn off the water heater. I had read that the heat leaking out of the water heater tank would keep things from freezing. Not true in my case. I would wake up to an ice icicle coming out of the faucet and it would take hours for the water to flow. Not sure exactly what to do going forward. I guess my next plan is to leave the furnace heat on the lowest setting and put up with the furnace noise. Perhaps instead just leave the water heater turned on and hope that that would prove enough intermittent heat to keep things liquid. I seem to have no damage after the trip to my water system.

- I had a hard time getting the cold/stiff vinyl sides to collapse correctly to pull the roof down. It was a pain in the butt to get 6 latches latched with the stiff sides. That colder morning it was all I could do was 5 latches and I left that 6th one unlatched as I drove off.

- I took a heated blanket that pulled about 180w while it was turned on. It was super nice to use to heat up my sleeping bags for the first 30 minutes of getting in. I had two zero degree bags inside of each other.

All in all I learned a few things and have a few lessons learned for next time. Plan to take my wife in Jan on the same trip. We will see how that goes. I bought a luggable loo for her. For me I would put on my shoes and trudge out in the snowy bushes to do my business- she isn't crazy about that.

Steve

Great info. I appreciate your willingness to give a few cold nights a try. I have slept many nights in mine and found the heater fan noise is very tolerable. Although my nights were not as cold as yours. I wish you the best for your upcoming nights with your wife in Jan.

 

[Kolockum]

I ripped all my plumbing out because I could never keep it from freezing.

All in all I learned a few things and have a few lessons learned for next time. Plan to take my wife in Jan on the same trip. We will see how that goes. I bought a luggable loo for her. For me I would put on my shoes and trudge out in the snowy bushes to do my business- she isn't crazy about that.

We use a Dometic portable toilet that flushes. To keep the "clean" or rinse water from freezing I normally add a liberal amount of really cheap vodka. So far I have had it down to ~5* and it has worked really well. I haven't tried it yet but you could probably go with some flavored vodka to get a refreshing smell.

 

[camper rich]

I would never have water in my system if it were that cold. I would take along a 5 gal jug of water and not use the plumbing. If the furnace is left on all night the jug should not freeze solid. Using a porta pottie (cassette toilet), I would put rv antifreeze it it.

 

[Mthomas]

Where did you camp in mammoth? Not a very stealth friendly place.

A couple thoughts:
1. Consider draining the water system and running off of water containers to avoid possible damage
2. if not, then run the water heater up to max and drain it back down into the holding tank to minimize freezing issues over night. I have been considering shut off valves at the tank and at the manifold to isolate out the drain line and the exterior shower lines, but have not implemented.
3. Buy and install a garage thermostat with a lower set point for night time use, 35 or 40 would be good
4. earplugs if you run the heater all night
5. I think you got lucky with the condensation issue, two people will be worse, but warmer for sleeping.
6, crank the heat in the AM to make it easier to drop the top.

 

[longhorn1]

If you are camping in cold weather, you should winterize your plumbing and take water jugs with you. In Indiana we winterize with RV Anti-freeze the first of November and take a 4-gallon water container with a spigot, along with 2-gallon Rotopak of water. If you freeze and break the water lines, it will be an expensive repair and cabinets will have to be removed to reach the plumbing. There have been other members that paid an expensive price, with busted lines and a cracked water heater tank. The cost to replace the hot water tank alone is $900.00+/-. I know, not because ours froze, but because I never got it full and the flame melted and distorted the tank resulting in a small fire. A local RV place had to replaced the mother board, some wires and the tank. It was and expensive lesson, costing me over $750 four years ago. Better to be safe and smart than sorry. My 2-cents[emoji846]

 

[rando]

We use our camper and water system in similar temperatures with no issues. The big difference is that I leave the furnace on and set at 45 - 50 over night. We have never had anything freeze.

 

[Ted]

We got down to 9 one night. The freezing water killed our water pump. Since then we have run the heater over night on very cold nights and left the cabinet door open to make sure warm air got into the pump location.

 

[Jon R]

Question for those who camp in their FWC in the cold:

In the Pacific NW West of the Cascade crest at low altitude we get a lot of nights that just barely go below freezing. Is there a temperature a bit below freezing where you would consider it always safe to use the water system with no unusual measures (just running heat at 50 or so at night), or is it best to take the precautions described above for anything below freezing? If 25F and above is not a concern that would cover most of my local planned winter use. Rando's comment above seems to support that simply keeping the heat on is sufficient for down at least to 20F. Thanks.

 

[muttmaster]

Getting a Wave 3 heater is my ticket to quiet and warm night of sleep at 15F or lower. Open cabinets. Heat up water and dump back into 20 gal tank and heat water again to play it safe. I also bring a 5 gal propane tank so I don’t have to worry about running out of in the middle of the night. Bring a nice girl and a big furry dog might help too.

My first Winter at Mammoth 40 years ago was educational. Camped by the main lodge in my 1970 Vanagon. Learned to lay out my cloths before sleep and dress up very fast in the morning. Learned not to park along the road in a white van during big snow storm unless you didn’t care if snow plows comes by and bury you even more at 3:00 in the morning. Scary. I eventually got smarter and started parking in town closest to jacuzzi and sauna at different condos.

Much more comfortable in my Grandby these day, but I think I had more fun back then.

 

[patrkbukly]

2016 Granby here....and I have learned the following over the last few years winter camping here at 10,000 feet;
The FWC does little to insulate from outside temps in serious cold. If 0F outside without furnace during the night you will near 0F inside during the night. So know that and operate accordingly.

If temps will be below about 25F have no water anywhere in the systems.
Not in the hot water heater,
not in the lines,
not in the tank,
Not in shower faucet lines,
not in the toilet flush tank (if you have one).
It will eventually freeze and break a line, split a plastic fitting or ruin your water pump (all known from experience).
Just drain it all and Ive never had an issue since doing so.

I always pour a small pot of water and leave it on the stove overnight. Even if it freezes I just light the stove and wallah...coffee ready.
I keep two 1 gallon water jugs during these times and even if they mostly freeze in the camper overnight there is still some water enough to boil on the stove and hold a jug over it and you have water to use pretty quick.

I camp in Silvethorne and Dillon CO 3 nights a week.
This week we had -10 windchill one night but in general we get down close to 0 each night (this is a regular mercury thermometer in my Granby so I consider that an accurate "feels like" read as opposed to just whats posted on a cellphone weather app)
Jugs mostly froze left a little unfrozen. Stay cozy and warm with the furnace going to bed, turn back on when you get up and be toasty while you have your coffee etc in 72F with the furnace running....all good.

I spoke with FWC about a possible lower speed furnace fan but does'nt seem doable with my FWC provided Atwood as it is.

I did do something recently that has reduced the on off cycling of the furnace and I am happy with the results....
I moved the thermostat to the cabinet wall facing the bed as opposed to where FWC delivered it with it facing the frig. Just doing that which now moves it away from the furnace vent exposing it to a more "overall inside temp" as opposed to less than 24" from the furnace vent has reduced cycling.

I may do some actual furnace cycling time trials soon and post. I did that last week and found;

• at 0F outside
• with the thermal pack installed
• Thermostat set at 50F
• I was getting approximately 5 minutes of run time with the furnace
• 2.5 minues off
• Then 5 mnutes run time again.

Also I give the camper credit for the furnace's effeciency. One thing I really love about it is that even if it gets bitter cold, the furnace turned on will typically move the temp 20 degrees in less that 10 minutes so getting back to a comfortable enviornment is easy.

I hope some of this helps.

 

[steve whiteside]

Wow, thanks for the great info and insight. It seems I dodged a bullet- not breaking my water system. Im hating the idea of water jugs vs the water tank just from a "more clutter more crap" POV. I guess a necessary evil. Good idea on the small pot of water ready for coffee the next morning.

I will have to read the manual and figure out how to drain everything.

Thanks again, Steve

 

[steve whiteside]

Where did you camp in mammoth? Not a very stealth friendly place.

A couple thoughts:
1. Consider draining the water system and running off of water containers to avoid possible damage
2. if not, then run the water heater up to max and drain it back down into the holding tank to minimize freezing issues over night. I have been considering shut off valves at the tank and at the manifold to isolate out the drain line and the exterior shower lines, but have not implemented.
3. Buy and install a garage thermostat with a lower set point for night time use, 35 or 40 would be good
4. earplugs if you run the heater all night
5. I think you got lucky with the condensation issue, two people will be worse, but warmer for sleeping.
6, crank the heat in the AM to make it easier to drop the top.

I camped down by the airport at the natural hot springs. It gave me about a 30-40 minute drive to my parking area. Others were camping on the mammoth scenic loop, which is closer. I thought the hot springs were ideal. It gave me something to do in a pleasurable way mid afternoon or later as I was done skiing. Met some interesting characters and took the edge off of the social isolation of camping by myself/skiing by myself. Over my 3 days of camping and skiing I got to recognize the same rigs/people both at the hot springs and the resort.

 

[Wallowa]

Pat...good download of information...thanks...your '16 Granby has the thermostat mounted differently than my '16 Hawk; mine is on top of the left cabinet near front wall and 10" from bed...I can lean out and turn it off or on....

Forgot about flush water in porta-potty [yes, a wife convenience, I always prefer outside]...will add something to prevent it from freezing, perhaps the deodorizer tabs will do that...

Coffee and chocolate = two essential food groups...I carry a Jetboil, in case I can't get the top up or run out of propane...morning coffee is not an optional item, it is a life giving start to each day!

Hope for snow...entire month of February I plan to drag my Hawk across Washington, Idaho, Montana skiing...all water drained...7 gallon water jug with great spigot..forget getting a shower, where can I wax my skis?

Oh, I carry a dozen or more 24 hour chemical heat packets....just in case...not for me, for the coffee water.

Phil

Ps...If you see a gray '05 Tundra / '16 Hawk with a GD sticker on rear window...stop by; no mask required.

 

[patrkbukly]

Pat...good download of information...thanks...your '16 Granby has the thermostat mounted differently than my '16 Hawk; mine is on top of the left cabinet near front wall and 10" from bed...I can lean out and turn it off or on....

Forgot about flush water in porta-potty [yes, a wife convenience, I always prefer outside]...will add something to prevent it from freezing, perhaps the deodorizer tabs will do that...

Coffee and chocolate = two essential food groups...I carry a Jetboil, in case I can't get the top up or run out of propane...morning coffee is not an optional item, it is a life giving start to each day!

Hope for snow...entire month of February I plan to drag my Hawk across Washington, Idaho, Montana skiing...all water drained...7 gallon water jug with great spigot..forget getting a shower, where can I wax my skis?

Oh, I carry a dozen or more 24 hour chemical heat packets....just in case...not for me, for the coffee water.

Phil

Ps...If you see a gray '05 Tundra / '16 Hawk with a GD sticker on rear window...stop by; no mask required.

Hey Phil,
sounds like they got the thermostat location improvement done right on your so thats a good thing.

I'm the same coffee addict, I can do without lots of things but that ain't one of em.

JEtboil is an awesome tool. Ive got one too (just in case).

Likewise on the connection...if you see my rig, come on over.
This is my 2 nights a week spot.

 

[Your Mileage May Vary]

To keep the "clean" or rinse water from freezing I normally add a liberal amount of really cheap vodka. So far I have had it down to ~5* and it has worked really well. I haven't tried it yet but you could probably go with some flavored vodka to get a refreshing smell.

That's alcohol abuse.

Have you thought of winter windshield washer fluid? Stuff I use is good to -40 degrees.

 

[Kolockum]

That's alcohol abuse.

Have you thought of winter windshield washer fluid? Stuff I use is good to -40 degrees.

After my experiences in college I can hardly consider cheap vodka anything more than rubbing alcohol.

I have thought about RV antifreeze or windshield fluid but want something more organic in the off chance I have to dump it into a vault or pit toilet.

 

[Wallowa]

After my experiences in college I can hardly consider cheap vodka anything more than rubbing alcohol.

I have thought about RV antifreeze or windshield fluid but want something more organic in the off chance I have to dump it into a vault or pit toilet.

Windshield washer fluid....what a great idea!


Kolo: Hey....OK, to dump in outhouse; you don't what that stuff [in the outhouse.. ] to freeze!

Pat..Wish I could look you up....that is some beautiful country but a long way from the NE corner of Oregon..

Phil

 

[patrkbukly]

Windshield washer fluid....what a great idea!


Kolo: Hey....OK, to dump in outhouse; you don't what that stuff [in the outhouse.. ] to freeze!

Pat..Wish I could look you up....that is some beautiful country but a long way from the NE corner of Oregon..

Phil

Pre covid i get to Rainier and Hood once a year so maybe in 2021.

 

[camper rich]

RV antifreeze not as poisonous and regular antifreeze. A quick search found this:

PROPYLENE GLYCOL – This type of antifreeze is only available in RV shops. It is non-toxic and the safest for all types of RV plumbing. This antifreeze is non-flammable and does not taint water systems. Propylene glycol is a lubricant and will actually work to extend the life of the seals in your toilets and faucets.

Regular antifreeze is ethylyn glycol--very poisonous to pets and people.

I doubt just adding the toilet chemical to the water will keep it from freezing. You may want to experiment with that at home.