Couple things I noticed at 5 degrees F.

[steve whiteside]

Sounds like you did well in the Granby (i think granby) Steve.
Which thermostat do you have?
6 days from one propane tank means you went through a lot of fuel but if you slept well and got through it all fine sounds like things worked as they should.

also im curious as a comparison to what mine does in similar conditions...how often would you say the furnace cycled on and off in that 37 to 57 range you stayed in?

Nice setup and rig by the way. I like the FWC’s in black. I think that was a smart move on their part.

patrick

The cycle of the heater was roughly 5 min on and 15-20 min off. I have whatever the standard analog thermostat that came with my new FWC camper.

The color is actually dark grey. I debated about white since most of my camping is in hot places. Im glad I got the dark grey though because 1) I like the looks and 2) the added heat load is not that great because of the awesome ventilation with the pop up windows open. I believe that the color of the outside shell is negligible compared to the amount of heat that can be removed from the inside of the camper due to the breeze blowing though. That is my opinion anyway. . As an interesting side note when I picked up my camper 3 out of 4 campers being delivered were dark grey - down here in SOCAL

 

[DavidGraves]

Pat...good download of information...thanks...your '16 Granby has the thermostat mounted differently than my '16 Hawk; mine is on top of the left cabinet near front wall and 10" from bed...I can lean out and turn it off or on....

Forgot about flush water in porta-potty [yes, a wife convenience, I always prefer outside]...will add something to prevent it from freezing, perhaps the deodorizer tabs will do that...

Coffee and chocolate = two essential food groups...I carry a Jetboil, in case I can't get the top up or run out of propane...morning coffee is not an optional item, it is a life giving start to each day!

Hope for snow...entire month of February I plan to drag my Hawk across Washington, Idaho, Montana skiing...all water drained...7 gallon water jug with great spigot..forget getting a shower, where can I wax my skis?

Oh, I carry a dozen or more 24 hour chemical heat packets....just in case...not for me, for the coffee water.

Phil

Ps...If you see a gray '05 Tundra / '16 Hawk with a GD sticker on rear window...stop by; no mask required.

Walowa,

You make your coffee with Chemical Heat Packets ?!


YUK !!!

: )

DG

 

[patrkbukly]

The cycle of the heater was roughly 5 min on and 15-20 min off.

Interesting,
and does your thermostat face the bed in the back, or is it on the same wall as the furnace blower.
inask because mine cycled way too often and thats how mine was delivered from FWC IN 2016 but i have recently moved it to the counter wall which faces the bed and i’ve been told thats where they are delivered from FWC now.

 

[steve whiteside]

Interesting,
and does your thermostat face the bed in the back, or is it on the same wall as the furnace blower.
inask because mine cycled way too often and thats how mine was delivered from FWC IN 2016 but i have recently moved it to the counter wall which faces the bed and i’ve been told thats where they are delivered from FWC now.

My thermostat in the Grandby is on the same wall as the heater. Maybe a foot away and a bit higher than the heater outlet. The only other thing to consider is that I removed the flexible heater vent section (right behind the front cover of the furnace). Not sure if that has any impact.

Steve

 

[steve whiteside]

Glad you survived a genuine blizzard and was well prepared for it. But, I have to say that was not very wise. I understand the need to get out of the city and soaking in hot springs, but you knew the blizzard was coming and risked being out there. Not so much fun stuck in camper for three days wasn’t it. I am not impressed. Sorry for being critical, but I have being on many SAR missions in the winter in the past to find people who should of known better.

Thank you for your dedication to SAR and Im sure that gives you a different prospective on the public taking physical risks.

Steve

 

[steve whiteside]

My goal zero I keep in the large cupboard just inside the door to the right. Ive been wrapping it in a sleeping bag as it is right up against the cold siding of the camper. I may get in there and lightly insulate the exterior walls in order try to get away from the sleeping bag. The sleeping bag is good but it take a lot of volume.

Steve

 

[Wallowa]

Thank you for your dedication to SAR and Im sure that gives you a different prospective on the public taking physical risks.

Steve

Hi Steve! First I was SAR both topside and underwater...all of us make assumption of risk calls..just as you did, second guessing your judgement is not in anyone's purview. We all need to find where the "edge" is and hone our skills...moving on..I am at 49 Degrees Ski Area...big dump of snow and 40MPH winds made for interesting day yesterday..leave here Monday..plan to ski Silver Mt..Lookout Pass..Whitefish..but forecaste is for highs in single digits and way below zero lows..electricity here, so electric heater has Hawk cozy...no sun so glad I bought the Honda 2200i...BIG issue is trying to ski in extreme cold...Hawk is great,but not best at these temps! PHIL

 

[steve whiteside]

Hi Steve! First I was SAR both topside and underwater...all of us make assumption of risk calls..just as you did, second guessing your judgement is not in anyone's purview. We all need to find where the "edge" is and hone our skills...moving on..I am at 49 Degrees Ski Area...big dump of snow and 40MPH winds made for interesting day yesterday..leave here Monday..plan to ski Silver Mt..Lookout Pass..Whitefish..but forecaste is for highs in single digits and way below zero lows..electricity here, so electric heater has Hawk cozy...no sun so glad I bought the Honda 2200i...BIG issue is trying to ski in extreme cold...Hawk is great,but not best at these temps! PHIL

Thanks for the comments and it sounds like you are on an adventure yourself. What did you do underwater? I have 24 years of Navy diving under my belt. Being in a snow storm in our campers is somewhat like being in a small boat at sea. Back up plans and risk mitigations! Steve

 

[Wallowa]

Thanks for the comments and it sounds like you are on an adventure yourself. What did you do underwater? I have 24 years of Navy diving under my belt. Being in a snow storm in our campers is somewhat like being in a small boat at sea. Back up plans and risk mitigations! Steve

Bought first SCUBA 1955...SAR Washoe Co Sheriff. Recovered first body when 14 in Boca Res...airman from Stead AFB...went back to HSU for masters Ocn...became DSO for next 25 years..mostly UW research..retired '05...do miss the sea and riding the bow in rough conditions!

Phil

 

[Hoopy]

Getting a Wave 3 heater is my ticket to quiet and warm night of sleep at 15F or lower. Open cabinets. Heat up water and dump back into 20 gal tank and heat water again to play it safe. I also bring a 5 gal propane tank so I don’t have to worry about running out of in the middle of the night. Bring a nice girl and a big furry dog might help too.

My first Winter at Mammoth 40 years ago was educational. Camped by the main lodge in my 1970 Vanagon. Learned to lay out my cloths before sleep and dress up very fast in the morning. Learned not to park along the road in a white van during big snow storm unless you didn’t care if snow plows comes by and bury you even more at 3:00 in the morning. Scary. I eventually got smarter and started parking in town closest to jacuzzi and sauna at different condos.

Much more comfortable in my Grandby these day, but I think I had more fun back then

what and how we did things in the times past !! Like your historical perspective. I look at what I did early on and chuckle!..we love our hawk and am more apprieciative of these creature comforts as time marches on. happy skiing and camping hoop

 

[Hoopy]

Rando, I looked into splice in shut off valve in outside shower line but there is just no room in my Grandby. Short of taking the cabinet apart to even access the short hose, there isn’t enough space for a valve inline. If someone had a solution, I do it right away. It is the only weak point I worry about besides the main tank drain line. (Just had another look, looks like I should be able to take my sink off and then plug off the hot and cold line going to the shower, but that may be too much trouble. Two shut offs would be much easier.) I can’t access that line easily either to put in a valve inside. I think 4WC should built in shutoff valves at these two lines in the future to prevent damage.

My first camper was a fleet slide in with outside shower. Hot water as well. You can isolate the exterior shower but it was challenging. but i was glad I did it. take the face off the counter and you can do the put shut offs on the hot and cold manifolds.( still a PIA !!) I found a few things to upgrade in there as well. Our hawk we have done our own heat and Solar and battery management. We have done alot of our own upgrades to the hawk FB and have lots to do still but we are comfortable and very happy hoop

 

[UmkaAndHawk]

3. Buy and install a garage thermostat with a lower set point for night time use, 35 or 40 would be good

This is super interesting to me. Our thermostat definitely doesn't go low enough either. Is there a particular one you'd recommend replacing the Hawk Shell furnace thermostat with, for example, would this work:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00AG2NUK4/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_6S83JH9CHQ6KWYRZK912

 

[craig333]

I use this one https://smile.amazon.com/Honeywell-CT50K1028-Non-Programmable-Manual-Thermostat/dp/B002Z7EBCE/ref=psdc_2054379011_t1_B00AG2NUK4

 

[patrkbukly]

I use this one https://smile.amazon.com/Honeywell-CT50K1028-Non-Programmable-Manual-Thermostat/dp/B002Z7EBCE/ref=psdc_2054379011_t1_B00AG2NUK4

I have the same one but starts at 50f so ive got the one you are using on the way.

 

[Wallowa]

Hmmmm...well thermostat little help if no power...no sun in Panhandle of Idaho...for several days..Silver Mt low -8F and hi 5F w/wind..sooooo, I guess my options are motel or Honda 2200i....colder tomorrow...hopefully warmer starting Mon when I hope to be at Whitefish ski area....

Hawk AGMs dipped to 10.64V but SOC showed 90%,BMV was synched.

Any deas why such a disparity ?

Thanks...Phil

 

[Dafinga]

Just got back from a 4 day trip to Mt. Bachelor and ran the heat at 60-65 the whole time.......Webasto Diesel heater. Burned a wopping 1.5 gallons of fuel. Those heaters are absolutely insane. In addition, way less condensation than a propane heater.

 

[FreezingMan]

Against FWC and others recommendations I run water system during the winter months. There concerns are fully valid but I like being able to use the water system. This past December we camped in -10F weather with no issues except for maybe the truck not wanting to turnover. A list of what I’ve done is given below. The vast majority of these ideas I got from reading this forum over the years.

• The hard sided portions of the camper are covered in rigid insulation. This is particular important in minimizing heat loss where the water system is. This change also made the floor significantly warmer. A picture shows one of the panels.
• Replaced the FWC thermal pack with a Warm Windows insulating liner. This material is significantly warmer and is an effective vapor barrier. The FWC liner allows moisture in the camper to pass through to the vinyl liner where it condenses and freezes. Like you, I have had difficulty closing the roof due to a large volume of ice built up on the vinyl liner. This would be a really nice upgrade if FWC were to offer it. A picture of the liner at the window is attached. A local seamstress did the sewing. https://warmcompany.com/product/warm-window-insulated-fabric-54-x-15-yard-bolt/
• The morning of departure I fill my water system with warm water.
• Camper is in the garage the night before I go camping. During the winter my garage temperature varies anywhere from the upper 30’s to upper 40’s.
• Once we setup camp I fill the hot water tank and run the boiler. When we break camp, I drain the hot water system, turn off the pump, and open the faucets. In addition to draining the HW tank this adds hot water to the main water tank.
• Installed a digital thermostat. With the insulation mentioned above, coupled with this thermostat I find the temperature swings in the camper to be less. I usually run the camper around 55F at night. Condensation inside the camper is minimal. If I remember. I'll leave the roof vent slightly cracked though I'm not sure it makes a difference.
• Cabinet door to the water pump is left open at night to let warm air circulate around the pump. I see the pump as the heart of the water system.
• Installed Reflectix and/or rigid insulation over every window.

If I’m going to be longer than a day from my camper, I fully drain the water system even if the heat is on. Not being able to monitor the camper is too much of a risk for me.
With all these changes I’ve found my propane now lasts longer. I still have some ice build up along the roof slats where the metal staples are and the corners where the insulating liner has a gap with the ceiling.

This topic comes around every once and awhile and it's always interesting.

 

[wicked1]

That insulating liner looks great! I've done everything else.. Insulated the walls inside the cabinets (But not the hard walls outside cabinets). Made rigid insulation covers for the windows. I never camped before doing those things, but have been out several times this winter, down to zero F. No problems other than the condensation. There are three of us.. Two adults and a 5 year old. The amount of condensation in the morning is incredible. Literally several cups of water gets soaked up and wrung out when we dry it in the morning.

-edit to mention, we do use the water system. Fill the tank w/ warm water before we leave. Then camp.. then drain the system before heading home. Haven't had to drive in the freezing temps between camps w/ water... But I'd feel comfortable doing what FreezingMan does.

 

[cjudson]

FreezingMan, the Warm Windows idea is very interesting. You mentioned an attached photo but I don't see it (although wicked1 apparently did). How am I missing it?

Thanks.

 

[PaulT]

This link to the product is in the second bullet point.

Paul