Disappointed in Ford / sad state of US automakers

[DirtyDog]

For the domestics, I think it is just plain old short-sightedness and a lack of both funds and risk-taking cojones at the moment.

It's a catch 22 no doubt about it. But doing nothing certainly won't increase their sales or long term prospects.

 

[EdoHart]

I'm not so sure about the R&D already being done. It has for large diesels, but the CA emission standards are MUCH different than Europe's. Europe focuses on CO2 while permitting much more NOX. CA and US standards are the opposite- we care about smog and particulate and damn the global warming. That is a tougher engineering problem, particularly since smaller diesel engines/trucks fall into a more strict emissions category too.

Here are the CA standards
European standards (don't forget to convert units)

I mention this- and I'm interested in the forum's thoughts since I'm not an expert here- because of that Hilux we discussed not long ago. It has really been bothering me they don't sell such a superior vehicle (more payload and 65% better fuel economy) in the biggest truck-loving market on Earth. Why? I had no answers until I looked into the emissions. That may be the answer.

I think that's most of the reason. Many manufacturer's have diesel cars and trucks in Europe, but few in the U.S. Diesel cars sold in Europe shows some really impressive fuel mileages that I think many Americans would love to buy.

 

[BSS]

I think that's most of the reason. Many manufacturer's have diesel cars and trucks in Europe, but few in the U.S. Diesel cars sold in Europe shows some really impressive fuel mileages that I think many Americans would love to buy.

Uh, yeah. I would buy a 64 MPG Audi A2 diesel TOMORROW if they sold it here. Cash.

 

[RonSchon]

I may be beating a dead dog here....

My wife is an edumacated woman, way smarter than me (not a challenge), but if I asked her to take my CTD to the station and fill it up - she'd put 87 in it. No matter that she'd been riding shotgun with me 100 times when I cursed because the station didn't have diesel - or if they just had 1 diesel pump and there were 3 other trucks waiting in line.

If I sent her there on her own, she'd put gas in it. DW jokes aside, I think it's fairly typical.

Good point about the flexfuel fiasco - but the reason you could trust anybody to use that was because it didn't hurt if you just put regular gas in it - but if you were cognizant enough to look for E85, you'd pay about $1 less per gallon. Everybody understands cheap.

 

[craig333]

Actually have an outfit here called Propel that sells E85 and B5 at certain stations. I emailed "why only B5?" they explained that CA state law won't allow a higher concentration in underground tanks
http://www.propelfuels.com/content/

As for the cummins turbodiesel, I believe the current engine will meet 2012 smog standards so I have to believe it isn't that hard to do. If its more than just shrinking it down then I may be wrong.

I also see it like this. Less fuel used, equals less emissions released. Might be wise to trade off some increase in emissions for higher fuel mileage.

 

[RonSchon]

Craig... That's the riot... If my ginormous previous truck got better mileage than my wifes mid-size sedan, which one is more efficiently burning its fuel. Don't try and tell that to anybody, I'm just sayin...

 

[camelracer]

During the earth day activities this year along with the vendors selling solar systems, hemp jock straps & etc was a economy car display. The VW Jetta diesel equalled or exceeded the fuel mileage of any of the other IC cars there, including hybrids and the Smart Car. This is the first year for this car in Calif and I was told other models will follow. I wish this would expand to the truck market.

 

[pods8]

I may be beating a dead dog here....

My wife is an edumacated woman, way smarter than me (not a challenge), but if I asked her to take my CTD to the station and fill it up - she'd put 87 in it. No matter that she'd been riding shotgun with me 100 times when I cursed because the station didn't have diesel - or if they just had 1 diesel pump and there were 3 other trucks waiting in line.

If I sent her there on her own, she'd put gas in it. DW jokes aside, I think it's fairly typical.

Good point about the flexfuel fiasco - but the reason you could trust anybody to use that was because it didn't hurt if you just put regular gas in it - but if you were cognizant enough to look for E85, you'd pay about $1 less per gallon. Everybody understands cheap.

The manufacturer can just put a sticker on the gas cap that says in big letters "DIESEL FUEL ONLY". After that if idiots put regular gas in it they can pay the repair bill. I can't see a negative image of the manufacturer forming because then people would have to admit publicly that they were too oblivious to notice that warning...

 

[RonSchon]

Back when they were phasing out "regular" gasoline in the move to "unleaded" gasoline, they required manufacturers to make the opening smaller so the regular pump wouldn't fit in the opening of the unleaded required vehicles.

I am probably just barking up the wrong tree.

 

[chnlisle]

Three Cheers For Pam

In the 30+ years I worked for LAUSD. I can't count the number of drivers (both male and female) that fueled a diesel powered bus with gas. Sometimes we got lucky and they caught it and didn't start the unit but mostly it was engine rebuild time and I'm talking in the thousands. We had over 700 diesel buses and all of them had DIESEL ONLY on the fuel gauge and filler doors inside and out. There were large signs at the pumps reminding drivers to use diesel and still in went the gas.

I've had the Fiat since '06 and my wonderful wife Pam has used it hundreds of times and filled it as many and never once has she made that mistake. When the truck was new I said just once "remember use diesel when you fuel" and once was quite enough.

 

[craig333]

When I was working for CDF I once drove the utility truck and ran out of gas. Well it had about half a dozen 5 gal cans on board so I grabbed one and poured it in. Too bad it was diesel. The mechanic was seriously po'd at me even though it didn't cause any serious damage. Smoked like heck after they drained it out. I learned my lesson that day.

If I was in the market for a car I'd probably buy one of those diesel jetta's.

 

[Puffins]

I have a diesel jetta as my commuter and love it. The only thing I want to replace it with is the new sport wagon.

After selling off my half ton all our fleet diesel, makes the pump less confusing (just have to remember which side, diesel hoses tend to be short.)

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

40 mpg diesel truck ?

I don't know if this is the size truck you would have to have to accomplish this again ?

But is has been done before.

My friend had one of these back in the days and it got 35 - 40 mpg.

4 cyclinder VW diesel engine.

Seemed pretty reliable as long as you did the frequent oil, air, and fuel filter changes.

It was a fun truck, but from what I remember it was a guttless when it came to power.

I would consider something like this again, but the small size scares me these days.

1st -- I probably couldn't fit in the darn thing (only a small standard cab).

2nd -- I wouldn't want to get in an accident in it against all of the bigger cars, SUVs, and large trucks. You would get SMUSHED !



.

 

[DirtyDog]

1st -- I probably couldn't fit in the darn thing (only a small standard cab).

2nd -- I wouldn't want to get in an accident in it against all of the bigger cars, SUVs, and large trucks. You would get SMUSHED !

.

I'd be happy with something like the 27mpg Mercedes turbo diesel that the sprinter vans use. They could pwoer a larger vehicle.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

who would have thought ?

here it is ...

(laughs)


.

 

[pods8]

Back when they were phasing out "regular" gasoline in the move to "unleaded" gasoline, they required manufacturers to make the opening smaller so the regular pump wouldn't fit in the opening of the unleaded required vehicles.

I am probably just barking up the wrong tree.

Aren't diesel nozzles a tad bigger so you can't put diesel in gas but not the other way around? Its been a while since I've filled a diesel so I can't recall.

In the 30+ years I worked for LAUSD. I can't count the number of drivers (both male and female) that fueled a diesel powered bus with gas. Sometimes we got lucky and they caught it and didn't start the unit but mostly it was engine rebuild time and I'm talking in the thousands. We had over 700 diesel buses and all of them had DIESEL ONLY on the fuel gauge and filler doors inside and out. There were large signs at the pumps reminding drivers to use diesel and still in went the gas.

Pretty sure if word got out that you'd get fired and/or have to pay for repairs like that people would start paying attention...

 

[Sam]

I'd be happy with something like the 27mpg Mercedes turbo diesel that the sprinter vans use. They could pwoer a larger vehicle.

This is exactly what I have been waiting for. That MB Diesel is awesome and would be perfect for 80% of truck users. Everyone thinks they need monster 6+ liter diesels in their trucks. Unless you tow a backhoe everyday its overkill. I don't know about the rest of the country but where I am most diesel pick-ups live in culdesacs

As for the VW pick-up, weren't they front wheel drive and when you loaded up the bed their tended to be traction issues?

 

[EdoHart]

This is exactly what I have been waiting for. That MB Diesel is awesome and would be perfect for 80% of truck users. Everyone thinks they need monster 6+ liter diesels in their trucks. Unless you tow a backhoe everyday its overkill. I don't know about the rest of the country but where I am most diesel pick-ups live in culdesacs

I would love to have something like that, too.

As for the VW pick-up, weren't they front wheel drive and when you loaded up the bed their tended to be traction issues?

Yes they were. Imagine carrying one of those big campers on one? The American plants produced those against the VW headquarters recommendation, but I guess they had some autonomy. The Rabbits (which they were based on) were great cars. I had a '78 when I was 19, and driving it the way a 19 year old boy tends to drive, I still got 35 MPG with it. Conservative driving I got 50 MPG on one highway trip. I only did that once because it was boring. Boy have I changed.