F650!

[craig333]

Good god thats big. Sitting next to the fwc really puts it in perspective. I"ll bet thats a little nicer to hole up during a storm than our rigs. Maybe he'd let me in if brought over a bottle

 

[pods8]

I’ve thought about this. Here is what you need to consider. My rig, built for two people, gets about 18 miles/gallon at best with the camper on.
If you look at it in terms of gallons/mile/person it works out to be 1gallon/18miles/2people = .0278 (rounded off) gallons of gas to move each person 1 mile.

Now look at a rig like the EcoRoamer. This rig is designed for a family of 4. I will take a wild guess and say he gets about 10 miles/gallon. So in doing the math…. 1gallon/10miles/4people = .025

In other words he is using less gas per person and has a load of creature comforts to go along.

I would hardly use our rigs as a baseline for an "ecoroamer" naming as well.

 

[chnlisle]

EcoRoamer - As an old soldier it makes as much sense to me as "military intelligence" but I'm kind of a KISS guy. I don't doubt he is a very nice fellow and I'm sure he has very solid reasons to spend what I'm guessing is heading north of $200,000 but man it's got to be cheaper to fly and lease when you get there. Or buy one of these and rent a car.

 

[chnlisle]

I just read a little of the EcoRoamer blog site and it appears these folks are already compromising ideals. There appears to be a substantial use of particle board. The say they will use a composting toilet but where are they dumping the compost? Urine and other liquid are supposed to be vaporized by the exhaust. Hmmmm P-steam I don't think I'm following behind these guys. This baby is going to way close to 15 tons. Can you say 3mpg? They also say that the carbon foot print will be less than 10% of a 747 on a return flight from Asia. I guess we can conclude then they will be transporting several hundred people in the thing or am I missing something?

I would love to know the price tag on that baby.

 

[pods8]

I just read a little of the EcoRoamer blog site and it appears these folks are already compromising ideals. There appears to be a substantial use of particle board. The say they will use a composting toilet but where are they dumping the compost? Urine and other liquid are supposed to be vaporized by the exhaust. Hmmmm P-steam I dont think I'm following behind the guys. This baby is going to way close to 15 tons. Can you say 3mpg? They also say that the carbon foot print will be less thatn 10% of a 747 on a return flight from Asia. I guess we can conclude than they will be transporting several hundred people in the thing or am I missing something?

I would love to know the price tag on that baby.

Lol, funny thing is if it was named "earth wander" or something I wouldn't bat an eye. Just don't through out "eco" if you're not really living it. My $.02

 

[EdoHart]

You don't understand, it's for the Children

All of you who are bashing the Eco-Roamer don't understand that it's been built for the children. Get over it. :stir:

 

[chnlisle]

The children sure. I'm sure it was on their wish list. It's ok we all can justify pretty much anything too. Didn't mean to piss you off Ed.

 

[EdoHart]

I was joking

The children sure. I'm sure it was on their wish list. It's ok we all can justify pretty much anything too. Didn't mean to piss you off Ed.

I was joking around. If you say "it's for the children" then you can justify anything, right?

 

[DirtyDog]

To attach a name like "Ecoroamer" to a rig like that is inviting this kind of discussion. I think Ecoroamer would be a better name for a biodiesel VW Vanagon.

 

[Tomas Tierra]

or maybe the 2llamas package

 

[pods8]

To attach a name like "Ecoroamer" to a rig like that is inviting this kind of discussion.

Exactly. I'm not knocking the rig itself at all, just the undeserving name for it.

 

[chnlisle]

Oh I'm knocking the rig itself.

 

[ScottBailey]

Oh I'm knocking the rig itself.

It's the whole Dodge/Ford thing again, isn't it Jay?

That's one BIG camper...

 

[jayshapiro]

Response from The EcoRoamer

Hi Guys,

Great forum. I noticed that there was some conversation around the merits/mistakes of the EcoRoamer (or as Tomas called it "The Eco-Destroyer"), so I thought it would help to clarify some of the points made in the earlier posts...

We chose to call it the EcoRoamer, to start conversations exactly like this one. Not everyone agrees with what we're doing, but at least you're talking about and maybe starting to explore ways to explore Overland while minimizing your impact on the environment.

For those of you who haven't read our website at www.EcoRoamer.com - here's some of the key reasons why I think we're more 'eco' than 'destroyer':

1 - RECYCLING

The entire vehicle is made out of recycled and/or sustainable materials. The shell is made of Alucabond, a composite sandwich of 80% recycled aluminum and recycled plastic. The cabinetry is made of bamboo, the countertops paper.

Even the chassis itself was used when we "rescued it" from an imminent bankruptcy.

I just read a little of the EcoRoamer blog site and it appears these folks are already compromising ideals. There appears to be a substantial use of particle board.
YES - we are using 'particle board' for the internals of some of the cabinets (the Bamboo gets very expensive and heavy) but it is not typical particle board it's called Medex, and it is made from 100% recycled post-industrial recovered wood fibre and non-fermaldahyde resins. I don't feel guilt about this at all...

2 - The Diesel:

Suck down gas and all if you want but don't go giving your rig a happy earth name as well.
The F650 comes with a CAT C7 engine. We run it on BioDiesel (mostly B20) whenever we can. Some people have their own arguments against bio, but I still think it's better than pulling 100% fossil fuels out of the ground. (veggie's not practical for us)

I just finished a 2,000 mile trip from Arizona to Michigan, averaging about 8Mpg for the trip (with the full camper on the back). Remember that this is a big 350HP tractor engine, so it cruises just slightly above idle at 70MPH.

As someone rightly pointed out before, 8MPG for the 4 of us living in the truck is about 0.031 Gal / person / mile. A 2 person F250 is actually worse at 0.038 Gal / person / mile. (assuming 13MPG & 2 people)

No doubt we still generate a fair amount of C02 (both in the driving and the manufacturing) and so we have committed to 'offsetting' our full carbon footprint with investment in equivalent reforestation projects. (though there are arguments against that too if you really want to push...)

3 - The Toilet:

They say they will use a composting toilet but where are they dumping the compost? Urine and other liquid are supposed to be vaporized by the exhaust. Hmmmm P-steam I don't think I'm following behind these guys.
The whole idea of compost is that it is harmless, non-toxic and in fact good for plants. Walk out to your nearest neighborhood park, or garden center and you'll see loads of it. (literally)

4 - The 747 thing...[/SIZE]

They also say that the carbon foot print will be less than 10% of a 747 on a return flight from Asia. I guess we can conclude then they will be transporting several hundred people in the thing or am I missing something?
That statement is based on 4/300th (i.e. 4 of us out of 300 passengers) worth of a 747's carbon output. Pretty scary actually, and a great indication of how (relatively) small an individual road vehicle actually produces.

I still stand by that comparison and believe that Flying in & leasing a vehicle (suggested by CHNISLE also) would be far worse for the environment, and mostly impractical for the countries we want to travel in.

While I do agree that sailing, or bicycling would be WAY more eco-friendly, taking two small kids on the back of a bike for 3 years is not my idea of a great experience, and my wife gets seasick...

5 - Justified?

Lol, funny thing is if it was named "earth wander" or something I wouldn't bat an eye. Just don't through out "eco" if you're not really living it. My $.02
Actually I agree, but I think we are actually walking the walk. Between the points mentioned above, and our almost 2kW of solar panels on the roof, I think that we are going to be living fairly low impact considering we're driving a big truck around the world.

As an interesting point of comparison, consider that this is our primary family home. At the end of this month, open up your house's power bill, add in the gas bills for your 2.5 average family cars, and then add in 20% for the impending air-conditioning season. How does your family's lifestyle footprint compare to mine?

6 - And Lastly...
Cool rig but I couldn't get to half of the places i enjoy in it.
I think that NORTHERNEXPLORER (on this forum as well) can testify to the fact that we went down the same two-tracks as the rest of the jeeps & land cruisers on our U.P. trip last summer.

Now, we're not going to go rock crawling in Moab or anything, but we do alright considering it's our HOME.

------------------------------------

I'm delighted to have your interest in our project, that's what this is all about... getting people to talk & think about these issues. If we didn't want that we would have just bought something off the shelf!

Cheers,
Jay.


Oh, and btw...
I would love to know the price tag on that baby.
...About $250k (less than most stationary houses) - If you're interested in having one, all of the plans are available for free on our website, or we'll build an assembled one for you with all of the proceeds going to our non-profit: The Muskoka Foundation.

 

[the fisherman]

There's Something Missing

Would you be interested in a 2000hp. inflatable to tow behind that thing.

 

[chnlisle]

Salty I think it floats on its own. Its truly a miracle truck.

Jay thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas. We're all pretty friendly here but you better have thick skin.

Here's my next rig and it uses twice the carbon foot print of the Panama Princess on a trip through the canal.

 

[Puffins]

To attach a name like "Ecoroamer" to a rig like that is inviting this kind of discussion. I think Ecoroamer would be a better name for a biodiesel VW Vanagon.

Wish I could get one state side. My TDI Jetta is showing it age and doesn't fit the twins, dogs, stuff.

But that's why I got the crew.

 

[DirtyDog]

Hi Jay,

I appreciate your participation in this discussion. I actually think that what you are doing is great. It's discussions like this that get us thinking about positive impact issues, even if we don't agree on the present implementation.

My only issue with your entire explanation is the Bio-diesel part. Bio-diesel has more potential value as a boon to national security (domestic energy sources) than actual environmental benefits, but even those security benefits have a down side. Converting massive swaths of cropland to fuel production would be disastrous for this country as it would literally be taking food out of peoples mouths. Also, all that extra crop growing simply depletes another non-renewable resource - the massive aquifers that allow all the crops to be grown in our heartland. These aquifers absolutely have a finite life span and this is an issue that doesn't get much media attentions and is often overlooked.

There has been much discussion about the realities of biofuels in this country and I think most science-minded people agree that domestic bio-fuels are not the answer to our energy needs. Bio-fuels have worked in Brazil because they are using sugar cane as the fuel crop, which has a much higher concentration of usable energy per acre of crop.

Ultimately I think it is going to be battery power that gets us out of the oil mess, but we just aren't quite there yet.

Anyway - still like your project and enjoy the discussion. Carry on

 

[pods8]

Hi Guys,
As someone rightly pointed out before, 8MPG for the 4 of us living in the truck is about 0.031 Gal / person / mile. A 2 person F250 is actually worse at 0.038 Gal / person / mile. (assuming 13MPG & 2 people)


True but the average joe doesn't name their rig "eco"

Curios to see what my truck does this weekend when we might have 4 folks in it...

As an interesting point of comparison, consider that this is our primary family home. At the end of this month, open up your house's power bill, add in the gas bills for your 2.5 average family cars, and then add in 20% for the impending air-conditioning season. How does your family's lifestyle footprint compare to mine?


No gas, pellet heat (sorta renewable but does release some co2 however whether that is even an issue is another discussion), no AC (ceiling fans), all our commuting is done in a 36mpg car with 2 people in it (then we bring out the truck on the weekend ).

I think that NORTHERNEXPLORER (on this forum as well) can testify to the fact that we went down the same two-tracks as the rest of the jeeps & land cruisers on our U.P. trip last summer.


Where did you hit? I'm originally from MI...

 

[SunMan]

Thanks for your detailed responses Jay. Welcome to the board...that's one helluva home you've got.