Flexible Solar- Still going vs Dead

[Ethergore]

This may be one step towards obsessive at this point but I can't decide if I want to stick with flexible panels or move to another option. Renogy gave me the option to return my still working panel minus a 10% restocking fee towards a foldable solar suitcase. The major downside is I only get the warranty from my original date of purchase and the suitcase weighs 27 lbs!

I would like to make a list only thread of working a non-working panels only. No discussions as there are plenty of other threads for that. I can maintain the list and hopefully RC Pilot Jim will add it to the ultimate flexible solar thread. Please include how long you have had the panel, how many you have, how it is installed and whether or not it is still working. Hopefully this will give us a real data set so we can decide how paranoid we want to be about this technology. I took the liberty of starting the list of those I know. Please correct me if I got something wrong.

Working:
Ethergore- 1 panel, used as a portable, bought in June 2014
RC Pilot Jim- 1 panel, mounted on roof, bought November 2014
DrJ- 3 panels, mounted on roof, bought ~January 2014
LookyLou- 2 panels, not sure how they are used, 1 just purchased and 1 just exchanged
AlanO- 2 panels, mounted on roof, 2 bought September 2014 and 2 recently exchanged
Hodakaguy- 3 panels, mounted on roof with vents, bought ~ June 2014
PaulT- 1 panel, portable, bought ?
Camper101- 1 90w global solar, bought October 2014
100acrehuphalump- 2 panels, mounted to roof, bought ?
Photohc- 1 panel, portable, bought ~July 2014
DesertDave- 2 panels, 1 portable and 1 mounted (50 watt), 100w bought June 2014, 50w Jan 2015
DavidO- 2 panels, portable, bought?
Spitfire- 2 panels, mounted to roof, bought early 2015
cdbrow1- 1 panel, mounted to roof, May 2015
Stalking Light- ? panels, used ?, bought ?
SB_Surf- 2 panels, mounted on roof, December 2014 ("lightly loaded")
Sledawg- 2 panels, , 1 bought July 2014 still good, 1 bought Dec 2014 and exchanged July 2015
brianjwilson- 4 (2 x 100w, 2 x 50w), mounted on roof with velcro, bought July 2015
Squatch- I think he has at least 1, not sure

Not working-
DonC- 6 panels, mounted on roof, 3 bought in March, 3 exchanged in July
AlanO- 2 panels, mounted on roof, bought September 2014
LookyLou- 1 panel, dead on arrival, just purchased
Sledawg- 1 panel, mounted on roof, bought December 14
TravelAmateurs-2 panels, mounted on roof, bought ?
Rustyinbender-2 panels, mounted on roof, bought June 2015

I highlighted the ones working but only recently bought or exchanged. Just upon compiling this list I notice we collectively have a lot of panels and it seems a good amount are still working. I also want to add the fact that Renogy has had no problem replacing these panels.

 

[SB_Surf]

2 panels Dec 2014 with 4000 miles, caulked to roof, 90% of time in garage, solar only switched On when not driving, rarely used to power 3-way Dometic...so, lightly loaded.

 

[SLEDAWG]

2 panels glued. 1st panel bought July 2014... Still working to spec. 2nd panel bought Dec 14. Notice amp drop intermittently in March 15. Failed completely in June. Average 7 days a month camping with a fully loaded Fleet with 80L comp fridge. Garaged when not in use. Replacement mounted with Velcro. Tracer MPPT 2215 Controller. Life has gotten in the way....need to get out to ring out new panel. If I have another failure will replace with rigid panel.

 

[DesertDave]

100W flex portable in use since 6/2014 working

50W flex glued down in use since 1/2015 working

 

[DrJ]

This has been an interesting discussion for me to watch.

I am curious to know why these panels have failed (probably like everyone else).

I appear to have one of the longest running set of panels to this point.

In those panels that have failed has anyone:
Modified the MC4 connectors?
Added a fuse to the positive side of the solar system when they were installed?
Changed the interior wiring from the panels to the batteries - or considered a short in the wiring?
All purchased them from Renogy solar?

These panels are certainly susceptible to damage from electrical shorts especially at the connection points.

It could just be bad panels, but I would guess there are probably several reasons why panels have failed in the last several months.

 

[alano]

DrJ,

I cut off the MC4 connectors after noticing low current from my panels. I thought it was a connection problem since on my first trip I had an open that I fixed with just unplugging and replugging the MC4 connectors. For a long time I thought the poor performance was a connection / wiring problem since the open circuit voltage of the panels was always pretty good.

I have a fuse on the + side inches from the input to the charge controller.

I have not changed the camper wiring from the roof to the battery box.

I purchased my panels from Renogy directly.

I believe the failures are heat related - most of us who had failures purchased and installed them in cooler months and replaced them in warmer ones. Plus shortly before one of my panels gave up for good it produced less than an amp with good sun in the mid-afternoon yet in the cool of the next morning with a more extreme sun-angle it produced over 2 amps. Truck parked in the same place and not moved. Confirming evidence supplied by Renogy with their new mounting suggestion.

I mounted the replacements on an aluminum structure above the roof and (fingers crossed) they are working almost as well as my rigid panel. I believe the difference may be due to the flexible panels not being perfectly flat so while some parts are at a better angle to the sun, some are at a worse angle and that hurts performance slightly (maybe a quarter amp around noon). Even when glued to the roof, the panels were not as flat as the roof due to the distribution of the glue.

Alan

 

[Ethergore]

This has been an interesting discussion for me to watch.

I am curious to know why these panels have failed (probably like everyone else).

Yea. I hoping that if we get enough data we can see some trends.

 

[DrJ]

Alan,

You may be right on the air circulation part, but I always wonder about the other possibilities. I guess it's an occupational thing!

I did not cut my MC4 connections. I do have a fuse and used the same wiring from FWC. My panels were not purchased through Renogy but another seller from eBay. I am up in Idaho, but the panels get use all of time since my camper is out in the sun often.

I've ordered a new Grandby to replace my hawk - so I will be doing another solar setup.

I am coming up on 2 years of use with 3 panels glued and no issues. I love my setup and it puzzles me why others have failed.

 

[photohc]

Have had my 100w panel mounted on a foam core and used as a portable panel for over a year. No issues. Originally purchased from Renogy.

 

[alano]

It is a mystery to me why some of us have had much more trouble than others despite similar experiences. Could be some change in process or design at the factory or an unidentified user error. Like the number of licks to get to the center of a Tootsie-Pop, we may never know.

Alan

 

[LookyLou]

I did not cut my MC4 connections. I do have a fuse and used the same wiring from FWC. My panels were not purchased through Renogy but another seller from eBay. I am up in Idaho, but the panels get use all of time since my camper is out in the sun often.

I'm not sure why anyone would cut the MC4 connectors on the panel and replace them with the SAE solar plug. A 9" adaptor with MC4 connectors on one end and bare wire on the other can be purchased. The SAE solar plug is spliced onto the bare wires. There are MC4/bare end adaptors available with varying length wire also. The MC4 connectors can also be purchased separately without wire and you can make custom adapters of any length.

Cutting the MC4 connectors on the panel voids the warranty. Any modification to the Renogy panel voids the warranty even drilling additional holes into the edge of the panel for more attachment points.

 

[DrJ]

I'm not sure why anyone would cut the MC4 connectors on the panel and replace them with the SAE solar plug. A 9" adaptor with MC4 connectors on one end and bare wire on the other can be purchased. The SAE solar plug is spliced onto the bare wires. There are MC4/bare end adaptors available with varying length wire also. The MC4 connectors can also be purchased separately without wire and you can make custom adapters of any length.

Cutting the MC4 connectors on the panel voids the warranty. Any modification to the Renogy panel voids the warranty even drilling additional holes into the edge of the panel for more attachment points.

I was very tempted to do this, but did not. You could certainly make a waterproof connection and still make it work.
But in the end, I did just what you did. It doesn't look as pretty, but works great.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Ether, added link this morning.

Alan you make a interesting point about panels installed in cool months that may be failing
In hot months.

Our Eagle rig sits under a carport when not being driven. Lately I have been driving the Samurai more because it's fun to drive and gets 26 mpg. The other day I checked the Trimetric after truck sat engine off for 6 days and it reported the battery at 73%. I put the truck out under the sun. Checking the amp reading after about 5 minutes it read - 3.7 amps at about 10 am. (It has only shown over 5.8 amps once when I tested it before installing). When the sun dropped behind the hill about 4 pm battery was back to 92%. Voltage at 14.0.

I checked the voltage between the panel and Morningstar controller (stock 12 gauge wire) the meter read 17.7 under a slight load.

East Penn Mfg - "Intimidator" Deep- Cycle AGM battery (3 years old) now has a leaking post pad. Spraying "battery terminal protector" on the terminals seems to have stopped the leakage as it plugged the gap.

My mechanic checked it last month and it is towards its end. Their procedure is to put it under a 240 amp load for about 30 seconds then check the voltage. It was 12.1. He said should be 12.3.

My conclusion panel is working properly and battery is getting near "end of life".

First edit
Stock FWC battery an East Penn NOT an Exide.

 

[Ethergore]

Thanks RC Pilot Jim. I'm surprised your battery is going after 3 years but I guess it's not the age but the amount of cycles that is important.

Since you have the trimetric, did you notice it stopped going back to 100% slowly over time or did it just fail in a short time?

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Ether,
Trimetric is working fine as I can put the battery on the 110 volt charger maintainer and after a couple of days (charges at 1.25 amps) battery will again read 100% full.

Panel has never shown more than 3.7 amps charging flat on the roof. Of course most of the time the percent of charge is 88-100 and the charge rate goes down as the resistance increases.

I live on a slight hill so wonder if that is what causes the panel to to not produce full amps. When I camp in October - March it easily keeps up the demands from the fridge, lights and fan. The percent of charge range is 82% - 96% at sundown

 

[Ethergore]

I wasn't questioning your trimetric but the way your batteries failed. A normal battery life should decrease slowly. With the trimetric I am assuming you should notice the battery is unable to get back to 100% to the point where you would have to reset the trimetric to the battery's full capacity.

 

[brianjwilson]

June 5, I installed 2x 100 watt renology panels and 2x 50 watt renology panels. Mounted with Velcro. No degradation observed on the solar controller so far.

Have not tested any panels independently, but still charge at 13-15 amps in full sun.

 

[camper101]

Still working here (knock on wood...). 1 90 watt Global Solar flexible panel, installed October 2014. Bought it probably 2 months before that but no idea when it was made.

 

[Ethergore]

So far we are able to account for 43 total panels (of the Renogy type, I excluded the Global solar type listed) that are or have been owned by members on this site. Of those 43 panels, 10 have failed. In addition, 8 of the 33 remaining working panels have been obtained by purchase or exchange since May.

In defense of the panels we must consider that DonC accounts for 6 of the panel failures at a 100% failure rate. This suggests it may be specific to his system as only 1 other member has had more than 1 panel failure. However, I checked DonC's wiring from top to bottom and I see no errors that could have led to panel failure and his new rigid panels are working without problems so far.

What this means:
Total risk of failure 23%
Total risk of failure excluding recently obtained panels 29%
Total risk of failure not including DonC or recently obtained panels 14%

Regardless of how you run the numbers these panels have a very high failure rate. I am glad Renogy is addressing this issue.

 

[DonC]

just checked the Renogy web site

If I recall Renogy carried both a 50w and 100w panel that they called "bendable". Some of us installed or have as a portable, the 100w bendable.

Today there is no 100w version listed on their website, only a 50w panel that they now call "lightweight". For this panel they include a note that says "Please note: please DO NOT bend this solar panel"