Is your battery compartment well vented? Going from an AGM to a regular lead acid battery could be an issue in an unvented small cabinet!radarcontact said:Hey Vic, thanks for your replies. I have a pretty common 6V golf cart, deep cycle wet cell battery. It's sold in just about every auto parts store in the U.S. It's made by East Penn Manufacturing in Pennsylvania, but is supplied and labeled in various ways....Deka batteries, Carquest, Advanced Auto Parts, etc. I bought them at Carquest, and the part number is G110-12, but Deka lists them as a GC15 battery..they're 230Ah, 6V. Their listed discharge rate is 120 min @ 75 amps. Was able to get a hold of East Penn today, and they gave me the following data, in case anyone else on this forum has the same batteries, or wants to replace their AGM or gel batteries with these....I think it's a good idea, BTW. They're cheaper than the sealed AGMs or gels, and I gained some amp hour capacity with these. If you look at how golf carts are put through the ringer, these batteries have a history of holding up pretty well. In any case, the numbers are, for one 6V battery:
Bulk = 7.425V (14.85V for 2 wired in series)
Absorption = 7.275V (14.55V for 2 wired in series)
Float = 6.75V (13.5V for 2 wired in series)
Equilization = 7.875V (15.75V for 2 wired in series)
Here's a link to the batteries I have, in case anyone out there is thinking about replacing their batteries with something else. These batteries fit in my cabinet like a charm, where the old AGM type 24 batteries were. Didn't have to make any modifications in the cabinet to accomodate these (they're also just a little more than half the price of the AGMs I used to have):
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/carquest-hd-battery-battery-g110-12/11151702-P
And this is a link to the East Penn/Deka data sheet on these batteries. The one I have is the
GC15:
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Deka-Pro-Master-Golf-Car-Flyer-0248.pdf
Any questions let me know.
Fridge Causes Voltage Drop?
- Thread starter Desert Scruff
- Start date
radarcontact
Senior Member
Seems to be. A few times when I've opened the door I've had a brief whiff of sulfur, but it's very small. And, this happened when I had the camper outside, and charging was being done by my Zamp solar controller. The charging voltage was too high. Other times I've looked in there and nothing. I'm going to keep an eye on it, but not overly concerned at this point. Replacing my charge controller.dharte said:
I'm good with my setup now, but certainly not suggesting everyone should go to non-sealed batteries. My main issue has been the charge controller. But, because of that problem, I ended up switching to wet cell batteries, and so far I'm happy. Got two batteries for the price of one, and increased my Ah by 60.
PaulT
Need gumbo
TruckCamper Magazine had this to say about changes to FWC factory solar. https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/tcm-exclusive-2018-four-wheel-camper-announcements/3/rando said:
Paul
It is a pity they didn't go directly with Victron, as opposed to 'Overland Solar' which appears to be either rebranding Victron or selling Victron knock offs. If buying new, I would skip the factory installed solar (again) and go with actual Victron gear (again) .
radarcontact
Senior Member
Noticed also that FWC is now offering two 6V AGM deep cycle batteries as an option, for the higher Ah capacity.
radarcontact said:
Thanks to all for the discussion and links.
I still can't wrap my mind around the magnitude and prevalence of the "overcharging" issue with Zamp controllers. Whether this is an issue with all FWC campers with the Zamp or a less frequent issue with a few.
Also the switch to 6 volts to gain amperage seems off kilter to me; why can't you get the same amount of Ah from a 12volt system? Batteries, 6 or 12 volt, come in numerous Ah capacities.
Plus wet cells vs AGM cells is not a direction I choose to go; off gassing and maintenance plus a chance of acid spills are big issues to me. AGMs I believe are also more resistant to vibration damage to the 'plates'.
Lastly the changes that FWC have made as "upgrades" for "higher quality" would of course be advertised as improvements and not just changes in suppliers.
I guess bottom line for me is if it is not broken, or will soon be, don't try to revamp and 'fix' a functional system.
Not slamming those that really dig into the electrical systems in their FWC campers; just my views based on a limited experience with my FWC '16 Hawk.
Phil
A battery is an energy storage device-the amount of energy it can store and deliver is limited in part by its size. The battery output (electrical power) in Watts= Amps X Volts, so if the voltage drops, the amps have to go up to keep the power constant. In other words, the product of amps x volts is the same between a similar size 12v and 6v. Also, and very importantly, my 6v batteries are about 30% bigger than the 12v size I had-the base is the same but they are taller. That's how I went from 75ah with a single 12v to 216Ah with dual 6 volts. Dual 12v batteries would have given me 150ah.Wallowa said:
dharte said:
I get the battery size difference, which can be a game changer depending on the battery box size, but I believe you can purchase 12 v AGMs that have more than 75 Ah....I guess what I am saying is your can buy two 6v or 12v batteries and have close to the same Ah.
Correct?
Phil
ckent323
Senior Member
[SIZE=10.5pt]A Lifeline GPL-4CT 6V 220 Ah deep cycle battery weighs 66 pounds, dimensions of 10.28 x 7.06 x 9.93 in. and retail price of $351 (I just checked on the web) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]A Lifeline GPL-27T 12V 100 AH deep cycle battery weighs 66 pounds, dimensions of 13.09 x 6.60 x 9.25 in. and cost ~$330 (I just checked on the web).
Two 6v in series gives 220 AH, weigh 132 pounds and cost $700.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Two 12v in parallel gives 200 Ah, weigh 132 pounds and cost $660.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Two 6V batteries weigh the same as two 12V batteries and provide 10% more capacity, cost 6.5% more and are shorter but taller so fit side by side in battery boxes in one compartment under the rollover couch in battery boxes in our camper. I am not sure if two 12V will fit in one compartment in battery boxes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]For the most part it seems like a wash to me[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]P.S. Larger capacity 12V deep cycle batteries are available (for example, Fire Trucks and Boats use them) but there is no free lunch the weight goes up as does the cost. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]A Lifeline GPL-8DL 225 AH 12V battery weighs 162 pounds and costs $700. I cannot imagine trying to lift one of these beasts into a camper.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]
Regards, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Craig[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]A Lifeline GPL-27T 12V 100 AH deep cycle battery weighs 66 pounds, dimensions of 13.09 x 6.60 x 9.25 in. and cost ~$330 (I just checked on the web).
Two 6v in series gives 220 AH, weigh 132 pounds and cost $700.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Two 12v in parallel gives 200 Ah, weigh 132 pounds and cost $660.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Two 6V batteries weigh the same as two 12V batteries and provide 10% more capacity, cost 6.5% more and are shorter but taller so fit side by side in battery boxes in one compartment under the rollover couch in battery boxes in our camper. I am not sure if two 12V will fit in one compartment in battery boxes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]For the most part it seems like a wash to me[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]P.S. Larger capacity 12V deep cycle batteries are available (for example, Fire Trucks and Boats use them) but there is no free lunch the weight goes up as does the cost. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]A Lifeline GPL-8DL 225 AH 12V battery weighs 162 pounds and costs $700. I cannot imagine trying to lift one of these beasts into a camper.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]
Regards, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Craig[/SIZE]
Good points and questions Phil. As one of those "that really dig" I am not offended at all... this stuff can be very confusing, and not everyone is willing to dig and research for dozens of hours to get through the marketing fluff, internet misinformation and other cr@p to get to working results. Hence this invaluable forum, where some folks know LOTS more about stuff than I do, and vice versa.Wallowa said:
Re: wrapping your head around ZAMP - It is not uncommon for a simple charge controller (ZAMP isn't the only one... many lower cost units from well-known and very good brand names are included here) to not have any adjustability. They simply have selectors for battery types, such as GEL, AGM or FLA. These can work well, and also can't be expected to be great for everyone.
Add to this that these inexpensive products are installed without an expensive monitoring system, and you get premature battery failure.
Re: 6 volt vs 12 volt - You are absolutely correct, you can get the same AH from either. Form factor (shape and size) as well as weight enter into this for most folks. I designed my battery box around the batteries I wanted; most folks don't have that option. And in general, more weight means more lead, which is good for storing solar power. I couldn't lift a 12 volt battery in the AH capacity I wanted. I could have used two lesser AH 12 volt batteries in parallel, but in general, 6 volt batteries seem better for solar storage, and have been around longer in the similar application of golf cart batteries.
Re: Wet vs AGM - AGM costs about 2x what wet/FLA batteries cost. If you have a vented cabinet, and are ok with checking specific gravity and adding water occasionally, FLA batteries are great. Another factor is what type of battery you have in your truck. Most newer trucks have AGM batteries, and so the alternators are putting out voltages/current that AGM's expect. If you are charging both batteries from your solar or alternator, you might be better off keeping both batteries to be of the same type. And yes, most resources would say that AGM's are better for high vibration environments.
Re: Improvements - it is always nice to see a manufacturer upgrading systems vs cheaping out. So FWC is heading in the right direction... and I have no complaints about that!
Re: If it ain't broke... - Totally agree. And as others have suggested here, getting 3 years from a battery bank may be totally fine for most folks. Just replace them often and be happy. Alternately, you can "dig into your solar" and get a lot more from your (much bigger) investment.
Cheers!
I didn't find anything over 75ah in 12v for the size I needed. Another thing that convinced me to convert to 6v (and I could be wrong on this) is that when you connect batteries in parallel, there is a bigger chance of one battery damaging the other if they don't charge equally-in other words, both batteries need to be in the exact same condition. Might not be an issue if they are both new. In series (6v) this isn't an issue. Since I had a single 2 year old 12v battery, I was going to need to get 2 new ones anyway.
There are two minor draw backs to 6V batteries that haven't been mentioned - you have no back up if one fails (or gets weak) and you can't use them in your (or someone else's) truck in a pinch. Not huge issues, but something to be aware of. With two 12v batteries, if one dies you can just disconnect it, and the other battery can support the load, or if you were to toast your starter battery, you could move one of your camper batteries into the truck.
craig333
Riley's Human
Haven't had to use it yet but I carry the cables and accessories to weld if I had to. Be hard put to do that with six volt batteries. I had no issue finding 125 ah batteries in 12v but I don't order by a specific size. I make my mounts fit the battery not vice versa.
Just to add another data point to the discussion, my 2.5 year old exides(Nov 2015 ship date) in my 2016 Grandby are bad. They have been charged and maintained with the iota iq4 and a victron 100/30 with 300w of solar. My battery monitor indicate the batteries are dropping below 9 volts after 25 amp hours have been used. I suspect either exide built a bad batch of batteries, or this is near the mean life for this battery under these conditions.
Lineman said:
Wandering Sagebrush said:
That's terrible! On the Victron, how many "cycles" (full discharges to below 50%) did you do on these batteries?Lineman said:
FoxenTec
Senior Member
Yes the Victron and Overland Solar look to be the same. I am hoping with all the great comments about the Victron, that Overland Solar didn't do a knock off but actually re-branded the Victron. Our Overland Solar and MPPT was installed by 4WC when we purchased our new camper this year. We are using two Renogy 100 watt panels and two AGM 12V batteries.
My biggest problem with the Overland is trying to read not the numbers but the small writing referring to what the numbers mean. In the picture below it looks easy to read but no so in the camper. I have got to the point where now I think I know what the numbers are referring to based on what numbers I am seeing.
13.8 is typically the voltage I see when nothing is on and the camper is in full sun. The display will also indicate the words FLOAT.
Approx. 12.1 to 13.5 when I am running our ARB fridge and maybe a fan while out camping.
Not sure why I see .2 amps when nothing is being used except the Carbon Monoxide detector is running. .2 sounds like more then i would expect to see from it. It jumps up to 2.9 or so when I plug the ARB fridge in.
My biggest problem with the Overland is trying to read not the numbers but the small writing referring to what the numbers mean. In the picture below it looks easy to read but no so in the camper. I have got to the point where now I think I know what the numbers are referring to based on what numbers I am seeing.
13.8 is typically the voltage I see when nothing is on and the camper is in full sun. The display will also indicate the words FLOAT.
Approx. 12.1 to 13.5 when I am running our ARB fridge and maybe a fan while out camping.
Not sure why I see .2 amps when nothing is being used except the Carbon Monoxide detector is running. .2 sounds like more then i would expect to see from it. It jumps up to 2.9 or so when I plug the ARB fridge in.
PaulT
Need gumbo
13.8 * .2 ==> 2.76 watts for the CO/propane with indicator LED and the Overland Solar display backlight & controller processor doesn't seem excessive.
Paul
Paul
13.8 * .2 ==> 2.76 watts for the CO/propane with indicator LED and the Overland Solar display backlight & controller processor doesn't seem excessive.
Paul
Same here...IOTA IQ4 and so-called propane alarm = .25 Ah steady....
Did a voltage check on batteries both 12v AGMs are at 13.6...not heating up at all..of course not a load test..
Really trying to understand the exact utility of a more sophisticated [complex] solar/110 charging monitor...sure my Zamp monitor..is elementary but can't see what would really be gained from replacing it...
Plan to fumble along until the Exides die and then probably go Lifeline [sp?] still g24 but 80 amp AGMs..
Phil
Paul
Same here...IOTA IQ4 and so-called propane alarm = .25 Ah steady....
Did a voltage check on batteries both 12v AGMs are at 13.6...not heating up at all..of course not a load test..
Really trying to understand the exact utility of a more sophisticated [complex] solar/110 charging monitor...sure my Zamp monitor..is elementary but can't see what would really be gained from replacing it...
Plan to fumble along until the Exides die and then probably go Lifeline [sp?] still g24 but 80 amp AGMs..
Phil
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