FWC Camper Weight

[Stokeme]

I am now getting moderately concerned. I just paid to get in the rotation for a Grandby Shell w/extras. I am ordering a 2018 f150 4x4 super-cab 8’ Bed on Monday, HD properly equipped, payload 2700, Gvw 7850. My shell weighs 975? My options add up to 292lbs. ARB fridge 53lbs. That is 1320lbs with no buildout. It will be lighter & leaner but? Table w/lagun mount along with less cabinets than fully loaded. Not too much more heavy stuff. I wanted the 3.5 Ecco boost & not a f250. I may use some for daily driver But I could still order a f250 Monday or beef up the f150 more. All the stuff does add up ... I wish I had a better idea from FWC.
Reading what Camper Rich posted made me think & check ... I will be under his weight, even eventually, but though a f250 is possible, it is not preferred.

 

[iowahiker]

We subtract 100 pounds from FWC shipping weight (not sticker weight) for traveling without the jacks and we subtract 75 pounds for removing the tailgate, more like 50 pounds for your aluminum. Air bags are frequently added to level the truck when more of the camper weight is on the rear axle. The extended cab long bed should use the front axle more because of the long wheel base.

 

[jrwdlw]

I am now getting moderately concerned..... though a f250 is possible, it is not preferred.

Stokeme,
Not to add stress here, but I just sold my 2013 F-150 Super Crew, and bought an F350, crew cab, long bed, 4x4. My F150 didn't have as much capacity as yours will (1700 lbs), but I just couldn't do what I want. I had done some weight calcs on what we carry, and with just an 800 lb camper, I would be 500 over. Make sure you do the math on the axle capacities. With my F150, I could only put 1470 pounds of the 1700 on the rear axle. Also, the rims would only hold 1678 of the 1700. When I realized that, I decided it was time to bite the bullet.

The F350 has 3800 lbs of capacity with it's 17" tires and wheels. If I were to go to 18" (they carry more weight), it would be 4400 lbs. An F250 crew cab will carry 3230 (long bed) or 3450 (short bed). If you go with a super cab, it's 3490 and 3560.

Another problem I had was tongue weight, are you going to tow something? Leave yourself some capacity for that. A simple utility trailer will be 250 to 350. Anything larger, and you may need 500 to 700.

 

[smlobx]

I am now getting moderately concerned. I just paid to get in the rotation for a Grandby Shell w/extras. I am ordering a 2018 f150 4x4 super-cab 8’ Bed on Monday, HD properly equipped, payload 2700, Gvw 7850. My shell weighs 975? My options add up to 292lbs. ARB fridge 53lbs. That is 1320lbs with no buildout. It will be lighter & leaner but? Table w/lagun mount along with less cabinets than fully loaded. Not too much more heavy stuff. I wanted the 3.5 Ecco boost & not a f250. I may use some for daily driver But I could still order a f250 Monday or beef up the f150 more. All the stuff does add up ... I wish I had a better idea from FWC.
Reading what Camper Rich posted made me think & check ... I will be under his weight, even eventually, but though a f250 is possible, it is not preferred.

It's hard for me to imagine that you will be under your gvwr with a Grandby on a F-150 when you're loaded to go camping.
A friend of mine (on this forum) has his hawk on a F-250 and doesn't feel like he has too much truck.

Just a point of information but the cab of the F-150 and F-250/350 are the same, it's just that the frame and running gear are heavier Duty....Also the engine choices are different.

 

[BillTheHiker]

Just weighed my rig at the highway truck scales:
2016 Fleet shell on 2008 Tacoma V6, Access cab, 4x4 TRD off road with two extra progressive leaf springs and E rated tires. Weight includes myself.

Front axle: 2360 lbs
Rear axle: 2760 lbs
Total: 5120 lbs

GVWR on door sticker: 5350

5350 - 5120 = 240 lbs for all gear, food, water. So I figure I will usually be at or maybe a bit below GVWR for most trips.
However, using GAWR gross axle weight rating I will be well under the maximum.
front: 2755 lbs
rear: 3110 lbs
total = 5865

I previously weighed just the Tacoma at 4330 lbs (including myself), so the camper is 790. I added a counter, sink and two built-in cabinets adding about 30 lbs so subtracting that gives 760 which is very close to the 766 on the manufacturers statement of origin.

 

[ETAV8R]

Remember that your GVWR is for the stock vehicle. Adding better suspension and tires changes things altogether.

 

[DMWI]

Great info on axle bearings.

My Combo:

2006 Tundra Double Cab 4x4 TRD 4.7L
GVW 4965-5010 depending on website.
6600 GVWR
Manual Shows:
3500 lb Front Axle Weight Rating-All Models
3760 lb Rear Axle Weight Rating-Double Cab
(3560 Rear GAWR-Step Side, 3650 Rear GAWR-Standard Bed)

Owner Manual Note: Individual axle loads should NOT EXCEED Either of the gross axle weight ratings (GAWR)
Total axle loads should not exceed the gross vehicle weight rating. These ratings are given on the vehicle certification label which is located on the door latch post on the left side of the vehicle.

Door Jamb-Vehicle Certification Label states: The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1421 lbs*.

*This label also shows Front and Rear Tire PSI inflation of 32/33psi which were stock tires, not E load rated.
No other labels or tags found in any door jamb or under hood.

*Page 483 of the 2006 Tundra Owner's Manual also lists weight capacity of SR5 4x4 at: 1421lbs with Towing Package, without Moon Roof. This is occupants, accessories and cargo.


2018 Hawk Shell 925lb on sticker in battery cabinet.
Shell options: 2 vents, one with motor 6&8 lbs, roll over sofa 64 lbs, extra battery 53 lbs, Cook Top? and Furnace 25 lbs, Jacks 100 bs. Option Weights per FWC Website.
Total: 1181 lbs
Shipping Weight: 1125 lbs per FWC Paperwork

CAT Scale: Truck empty with bed mat, 65lbs tools, 230lb driver, rear seat (70lbs?) & tailgate removed (50lbs?), fuel tank full-less 4 gallons:
5320 (3140 Front, 2180 Rear)

CAT Scale: Truck with new camper, bed mat, 65lbs tools, 230lb driver, rear seat & tailgate removed, fuel tank full, empty propane:
6520 (3180 Front, 3340 Rear)

Scale shows I added: 1200lbs. Less 4 gallons of fuel at 6lbs each = 1176 lbs for camper with 100lb jacks that will stay home. Within 50lbs of FWC Shipping weight.

No water, porta potti, cooler, food, propane, camping gear or moto-gear. Propane Tanks Each 15 lbs empty new before purge, 24lbs Each Full. This will add 350-750.
Estimate Total: 6870-7270lbs.

Empty, stock truck sat tail high: 34" Front, 37" Rear, measured to center of fender wheel wells.
With Camper stock suspension, truck sits level: 34 Front and 34-1/2" Rear, with stock suspension.
Truck is stable, but bump stops hit running on paved back roads. Suspensions Mods will be required, even if under 6600 GVWR which is not likely.

 

[scappoosebrad]

Remember that your GVWR is for the stock vehicle. Adding better suspension and tires changes things altogether.

Could you say more? how does better suspension/tires change the GVWR--better or worse... just trying to educate myself better to this whole weight issue? Thanks..

 

[JaSAn]

You can add stuff to make your truck handle better, ride better, sit level, etc., but the GVWR does not change. GVWR and GAWRs were set by the factory and only a licensed (by the NHTSA) upfitter can change it. They will issue the legal paperwork to change your title and add a sticker to the door post, naming what changes were made, the new GVWR and who made them. It is expensive and I've only heard of de-rating HDTs for tax purposes.

jim

 

[Malamute]

^^^ Thank you.

Theres more to the rating than tires and springs. Brakes, drive line components, and many other things are tied up in the rating, as well as the axle bearings which were part of this discussion.

 

[PackRat]

There should be no confusion when loading up your rig....the mfger tells you how much the FRONT axle can handle and how much the REAR axle can handle but reminds you that in no uncertain terms the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT can't exceed a certain number. It is telling you that just because you are UNDER on the front you can't go over the rear weight rating and say its OK because you are under the GROSS VWR.

Adding the front & rear will always exceed the VIN stated GVWR so that is not a mistake.

Depending on the difference between the VIN rear weight limit and what you find out, you may be UNDER the GVWR and still many hundreds of lbs. OVER on the rear. That would be a bad idea.

 

[klahanie]

^ agreed I wouldn't want to be over the axle rating, maybe the occasional a trip from the landscape place but not consistently when the camper is on.

I think there is a "grey" area where some play that is between the sum of axle ratings and stated gwwr. for my truck front gawr is 6000, rear is 7050. combined equals 13,050. gvwr is 11,500. difference is 1,550. some feel ok in that zone as long as they not over either axle ratings.

OTOH often I see recommendation to not exceed tire ratings. well, if the tires are or meet oem I think they would match or exceed gawr. so I guess some are ok being over axle rating but with upgraded tires.

as has been posted on here before, fortunately there are vehicles available for purchase that are rated for the weight required. this thread helps with what that weight might be.

thanks go to those who have posted.

 

[DMWI]

So it's buyer beware when you order your camper based on factory and sales recommendation. Your truck may not not be appropriate, even with upgrades to springs, tires and careful packing. Just because other do it, doesn't make it right, legal or safe. Looks like I may have a never-used 2018 Hawk for sale.

 

[klahanie]

^ wow, really. that would be a bummer. if you go that route hopefully near cost resale value will be there (and it just might be)

I actually thought your numbers were not too bad - and again I appreciate your complete posting, I had you in mind in my comment. I think it will be helpful to others. and I think you might be in that grey zone but always respect an informed and considered decision.

good luck whichever way you go.

~David

 

[rando]

To be really clear the GVWR and GAWR are regulatory numbers and can't be changed. This doesn't mean that you can't significantly improve your vehicles load carrying capacity or that bad things will necessarily happen if you were to exceed these numbers. Vehicle manufacturers don't provide their analysis on how they arrive at these numbers, but it is some combination of engineering, lawyering and marketing. But a couple points to consider:
1. The load you put on a vehicle is a continuum - the more weight, the more wear, the lower the efficiency, the slower the braking. This is true regardless of being above or below the GVWR.
2. You can get a ball park idea of what the manufacturer thinks the engine, radiator, transmission, and diffs can handle by looking at the vehicle tow rating. None of these care if the weight is in the bed or in a trailer.
3. When consider your margin on weight, remember it is a percentage of total vehicle weight, not payload rating. If you are 500lb (or 40%) over payload on your Tacoma, you are 8% over gross weight.
4. You can increase the load carrying capacity of the wheels, tires, suspension and shocks through upgrades, but this doesn't change the GVWR.
5. The more weight you carry the more conservatively you need to drive and the more you need to pay attention to maintenance.
6. Use good judgement - just because you are over GVWR doesn't mean it is unsafe, but also just because you are under doesn't mean it IS safe.

 

[Wallowa]

"To be really clear the GVWR and GAWR are regulatory numbers and can't be changed. This doesn't mean that you can't significantly improve your vehicles load carrying capacity or that bad things will necessarily happen if you were to exceed these numbers. Vehicle manufacturers don't provide their analysis on how they arrive at these numbers, but it is some combination of engineering, lawyering and marketing. But a couple points to consider:
1. The load you put on a vehicle is a continuum - the more weight, the more wear, the lower the efficiency, the slower the braking. This is true regardless of being above or below the GVWR.
2. You can get a ball park idea of what the manufacturer thinks the engine, radiator, transmission, and diffs can handle by looking at the vehicle tow rating. None of these care if the weight is in the bed or in a trailer.
3. When consider your margin on weight, remember it is a percentage of total vehicle weight, not payload rating. If you are 500lb (or 40%) over payload on your Tacoma, you are 8% over gross weight.
4. You can increase the load carrying capacity of the wheels, tires, suspension and shocks through upgrades, but this doesn't change the GVWR.
5. The more weight you carry the more conservatively you need to drive and the more you need to pay attention to maintenance.
6. Use good judgement - just because you are over GVWR doesn't mean it is unsafe, but also just because you are under doesn't mean it IS safe. "



Well stated Rando.

DMWI....

I have a '05 Tundra Access Cab SR5 4x4 w/ OEM Tow and Winter packages...same 4.7 v8 as you...added air bags and Hellwig Anti-sway bar...removed rear seats and tail gate...bought a full-boat loaded '16 Hawk...damn near every option...removed lifting jacks...Currently with "C" rated Toyo ATII [next year going to "E" rated in same tire]..

The handling is great, braking is slower and fuel economy down but not a lot...mostly off road Oregon,Nevada, Utah....

Your call on selling a new unused Hawk...but just my take...the sky is not falling and you may be missing a great combo....we love our Hawk and the Tundra is first cabin..we expect many years and miles of off road exploring with them.

Only my experience based on 2 years of FWC use...and I could be wrong..

 

[DMWI]

I appreciate the feedback. To be clear, I am not blaming anyone but myself. The data is there for the buyer to decide. You also take on the responsibly for your decision.

While these might be reviewed by respected publications and sold as 1/2 ton campers, their weight doesn't leave you much room.

While I appreciate the comments from others that have successfully used this combination, I'm not sure it's worth the risk.

I keep asking myself if someone's wife and kids (maybe yours) are next to my overloaded truck and something breaks or I can't stop quickly enough...is that acceptable risk? Just so I can go camping?

 

[rando]

Obviously it is your decision, but I think you may be dramatically over estimating risk based on a single number.

As an example, lets take stopping distance (which is probably the simplest 'safety' metric). For a Tundra the 60 - 0 stopping distance is 160' unloaded, and surprisingly 158' when loaded at 90% payload.

from: http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2015/01/2015-light-duty-v-8-challenge-braking.html

For arguments sake, lets assume that the braking distance scales with GVW, and you will be 700 lb (or 10%) over GVWR - that would put your loaded braking distance at ~175'.

Now consider the 100,000's of towable RV's on the road. While towing a totally legal (under tow limit and GCVWR) RV with a heavy duty pick up truck and a an adjusted brake controller the stopping distances are:

from: http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2014/08/ultimate-one-ton-hd-challenge-milford-braking.html

So I don't think your the one that my (non existent) wife and kids need to worry about!

Think about a class A motor home (driven by an 80 year old), an F350 dually with a 5000 lb 10' tall Arctic fox in the bed, or an F250 towing a 40' , 15000lb toy hauler, all of which would be 'legal'. Not to mention the millions of semis on the road. Will any of these perform better in a panic stop, or an evasive maneuver than your overloaded Tundra?

 

[klahanie]

To be clear, I am not blaming anyone but myself. The data is there for the buyer to decide. You also take on the responsibly for your decision.

Noted. To your credit this contrasts well to a recent poster, he with an overloaded and broken truck, who chose to take a "how is it my fault" position.

Of course, you must do only what you are comfortable with.

And for the readership, just to make clear my "grey area", "grey zone" comment. That is my reference to an enabling mental, rather than possible legal, argument. The mfr ratings and and pertinent law in my jurisdiction, which I have taken the time to both research and post on this board, are clear to me.

 

[Vic Harder]

Obviously it is your decision, but I think you may be dramatically over estimating risk based on a single number.

As an example, lets take stopping distance (which is probably the simplest 'safety' metric). For a Tundra the 60 - 0 stopping distance is 160' unloaded, and surprisingly 158' when loaded at 90% payload.

from: http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2015/01/2015-light-duty-v-8-challenge-braking.html

For arguments sake, lets assume that the braking distance scales with GVW, and you will be 700 lb (or 10%) over GVWR - that would put your loaded braking distance at ~175'.

Now consider the 100,000's of towable RV's on the road. While towing a totally legal (under tow limit and GCVWR) RV with a heavy duty pick up truck and a an adjusted brake controller the stopping distances are:

from: http://special-reports.pickuptrucks.com/2014/08/ultimate-one-ton-hd-challenge-milford-braking.html

So I don't think your the one that my (non existent) wife and kids need to worry about!

Think about a class A motor home (driven by an 80 year old), an F350 dually with a 5000 lb 10' tall Arctic fox in the bed, or an F250 towing a 40' , 15000lb toy hauler, all of which would be 'legal'. Not to mention the millions of semis on the road. Will any of these perform better in a panic stop, or an evasive maneuver than your overloaded Tundra?

interesting data rando! That the trucks slow down faster with loads IN them is because the light back ends (unloaded) don't have enough weight in them to help much with the braking. Good to know.