FWC Winter camping

[Trailbob]

I mentioned the generator/electric heater in my earlier post. I've never used that combo before with our Hawk, but, after our our last trip in the snow, thought it might be a viable option for those times where there is prolonged rain or snow and the moisture is building up inside the camper from propane heat. I used to carry a Honda eu2000 generator on a rack on the front hitch of our truck to recharge the battery on hunting trips. I stopped carrying it after I installed solar and doubled the battery capacity, because I haven't needed it. But the last snow trip got me thinking that for a longer trip in inclement weather, I might just bring the generator. And if I have the generator, I can use the small 1500w heater to supplement the furnace and/or Wave 3. We have used the 1500w electric heater during the rare times we have parked somewhere with shore power. They do a good job, but I think the furnace might also be needed in really cold weather.

IMHO, a 2000w generator would be the size to have, since most electric space heaters are 1500w (on high). For extended run sessions, the Honda generators can be fitted with a cap that allows you to connect an external outboard motor fuel tank. That may or may not be too much to bring with a FWC.

 

[klahanie]

Re generator/heater

Thx guys. Have to admit I wasn't thinking guys would have the generator to charge batteries, which of course makes sense in winter. Tho I have read on the boards a number of times one being carried for dedicated electric winter power. One was from a fellow used to be on here used in Northern BC

Kicker with a eu2000 is I could buy a new Airtronic D2 bunk heater for same dollars new. Would be smaller, continuous diesel feed (from truck tank) and 850-2200 watts but not multi purpose, stand alone like a genny.

Agree about 1500w or even bigger and with blower. I actually bought a 1000w oil fill for a shore powered stay, late Fall in the Rockies. It was a bit warmer inside than out, but not by much

 

[patrickkidd]

I'm finally taking this Ranger 2 through its first "winter" trial up here in North Tahoe. It's a fairly civil low-30's F. The Camco Olympian Wave 6 propane heater is definitely more than enough running on Low all night without any insulation. I have 7 yards of Warm Window stored under the lower bench, but it's plenty warm without it.

There is some condensation inside the side liner, but it's hard to tell how much of that is from the inherent temperature gradient both from the outside and from the aluminum frame, especially when humidity is high and temperatures are just above freezing. But there have been other instances where the heater produced no noticeable condensation without any ventilation.

One thing though - I couldn't tell any difference in the 20# propane tank after a night of running on low. It's ridiculous. My old Platinum Cat in 2004 burned through a 10# tank in two nights.

NOTE: I have the new side liner and folding panels from ATC. It is an excellent product.

More to come.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I'm finally taking this Ranger 2 through its first "winter" trial up here in North Tahoe. It's a fairly civil low-30's F. The Camco Olympian Wave 6 propane heater is definitely more than enough running on Low all night without any insulation. I have 7 yards of Warm Window stored under the lower bench, but it's plenty warm without it.

There is some condensation inside the side liner, but it's hard to tell how much of that is from the inherent temperature gradient both from the outside and from the aluminum frame, especially when humidity is high and temperatures are just above freezing. But there have been other instances where the heater produced no noticeable condensation without any ventilation.

One thing though - I couldn't tell any difference in the 20# propane tank after a night of running on low. It's ridiculous. My old Platinum Cat in 2004 burned through a 10# tank in two nights.

NOTE: I have the new side liner and folding panels from ATC. It is an excellent product.

More to come.

IMG_0920.jpeg

I knew you would be happy with ATC! Congrats on getting everything going!

 

[craig333]

You shouldn't be getting condensation from a the vented furnace. Aside from venting the products of combustion it also vents the moisture. Works just like your home furnace.

My bag can keep my comfy but I'm also using the furnace to keep the pipes and stuff from freezing. Not to mention a fairly short haired dog

 

[patrickkidd]

You shouldn't be getting condensation from a the vented furnace. Aside from venting the products of combustion it also vents the moisture. Works just like your home furnace.

My bag can keep my comfy but I'm also using the furnace to keep the pipes and stuff from freezing. Not to mention a fairly short haired dog

I am not using a forced air furnace as is installed in the FWC’s. I am using a propane catalytic heater and the only notable byproduct is water . The make and model is included in my previous post, and is shown in the attached photo.

 

[Wallowa]

I am not using a forced air furnace as is installed in the FWC’s. I am using a propane catalytic heater and the only notable byproduct is water . The make and model is included in my previous post, and is shown in the attached photo.

Remember there is no such thing as complete combustion...catalytic heaters also produce CO/CO2 along with water vapor...so when you say "notable" you are correct but CO attaches to the hemoglobin receptors that O2 needs and like a smoker your O2 levels in blood drop...and it takes a long time for the CO to detach...it is accumulative...plus the heater uses up available oxygen..

Interesting Pdf..

https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/pdfs/CO03.pdf

 

[craig333]

Interesting study. Backs the importance of proper ventilation.

 

[patrickkidd]

Interesting study. Backs the importance of proper ventilation.

You know, I was just going to start a new thread about how to get some air circulation inside the camper when it is blowing rain or snow sideways. I know from living on a sailboat that the trick is always to keep the moisture inside and outside the heated space equal. Usually on boats you have a solar fan vent or passive vent with a baffle so water can't get through.

The old roof hatch I have develops quite a lot of condensation and drips onto the floor. It may leak as well. How do others handle this?

 

[Wallowa]

Our approach with a '16 Hawk that has two Fantastic Fans/vents is to leave the vent up perhaps an inch. The overlap with the lid and base keeps out rain/snow unless the wind is really honking...also with a side dinette, we have a crank out louver window next to the table that shields the opening from elements...most often the roof vents are all we need..

Lastly, the turnbuckle doors open into the Tundra truck bed, although we have never use these portals for ventilation they are available..

Without using the roof fans, the heater blowing air will also create circulation and heated air will carry more moisture out....

Honestly moisture has never been a problem....mostly we do this and dropping the window cover over the cooking stove to vent the products of the cooking flame...and at night to bring in more oxygen as we consume it while sleeping...

All these can be augmented with a small "AA" powered fan to circulate air into or out of the camper....

Phil

 

[patrickkidd]

Our approach with a '16 Hawk that has two Fantastic Fans/vents is to leave the vent up perhaps an inch. The overlap with the lid and base keeps out rain/snow unless the wind is really honking...also with a side dinette, we have a crank out louver window next to the table that shields the opening from elements...most often the roof vents are all we need..

Lastly, the turnbuckle doors open into the Tundra truck bed, although we have never use these portals for ventilation they are available..

Without using the roof fans, the heater blowing air will also create circulation and heated air will carry more moisture out....

Honestly moisture has never been a problem....mostly we do this and dropping the window cover over the cooking stove to vent the products of the cooking flame...and at night to bring in more oxygen as we consume it while sleeping...

All these can be augmented with a small "AA" powered fan to circulate air into or out of the camper....

Phil

You know, that's a really helpful reply. Having two roof fans seems like it would help a lot, maybe even if you had one blowing in and one blowing out? Also I hadn't thought of using the turnbuckle doors for intake. I suppose if I had a fantastic vent then it would such air in from them.

I wonder if adding an overhang with some 4" Flex Tape around the edges of my roof vent would prevent some of the rain/snow from coming in when it's blowing sideways...

 

[pvstoy]

Perhaps replace the metal roof vent with newer plastic type. The metal may have a surface that creates condensation and drips back into the camper.

 

[Wu Wei]

this winter i have decided to try a small bucket of damp rid in the camper since it is stored outside during the winter. i wonder how damp rid would do with dealing with condensation when actually winter camping. Has anyone ever tried this when camping??

 

[Machinebuilder]

You know, I was just going to start a new thread about how to get some air circulation inside the camper when it is blowing rain or snow sideways. I know from living on a sailboat that the trick is always to keep the moisture inside and outside the heated space equal. Usually on boats you have a solar fan vent or passive vent with a baffle so water can't get through.

The old roof hatch I have develops quite a lot of condensation and drips onto the floor. It may leak as well. How do others handle this?

IMG_0924.JPG

I put a Maxxair fan/vent in. you can leave it open in the rain.

I like it better than the beloved Fantastic fan. it is quieter and has more speed selections and with the vent closed acts as a ceiling fan.

I left it open for a couple months and never had any rain come through it.

I plan on replacing the Fantastic fan with one.

 

[Wallowa]

"I put a Maxxair fan/vent in. you can leave it open in the rain.

I like it better than the beloved Fantastic fan. it is quieter and has more speed selections and with the vent closed acts as a ceiling fan.

I left it open for a couple months and never had any rain come through it.

I plan on replacing the Fantastic fan with one."

==============================================================

Very interesting fan...thanks....but just for me the extra height would mean my Hawk would not fit in the door to my shop...and our Fantastic fans have three speed settings [vs the Maxx 10 speeds] and #3 will suck you out the vent... And the fan direction is reversible...

Always options to meet our individual wants [or needs]...

Phil

 

[Machinebuilder]

Very interesting fan...thanks....but just for me the extra height would mean my Hawk would not fit in the door to my shop...and our Fantastic fans have three speed settings [vs the Maxx 10 speeds] and #3 will suck you out the vent... And the fan direction is reversible...

Always options to meet our individual wants [or needs]...

Phil

I can fit my truck and camper in the barn. But don’t die to rodents.

My truck cab is close to 7’ it won’t fit into most garages not even close with the camper on.

The Maxxair is only about another 2-3” taller when closed than conventional vents. It does reverse also. To me living in the southeast the ability to have it open in the rain is very valuable. It will rain in the mountains at any time

 

[Wallowa]

I can fit my truck and camper in the barn. But don’t die to rodents.

My truck cab is close to 7’ it won’t fit into most garages not even close with the camper on.

The Maxxair is only about another 2-3” taller when closed than conventional vents. It does reverse also. To me living in the southeast the ability to have it open in the rain is very valuable. It will rain in the mountains at any time

I hear you...my Hawk clears garage/shop door by 1.5"....and I cringe every time I go in or out...ordering new Cooper AT3-LTs and made certain then match my current Toyo ATII diameter of 31.7 "... it is that close but all is good...and here our cats keep rodents at bay...

Phil

 

[Andy Douglass]

We did some sub-freezing camping last month (Great Basin, Arches, Great Sand Dunes, Mesa Verde, Grand Canyon). At Mesa Verde we camped inside the park, and the campground is almost on the top of the Mesa. It snowed a couple inches that night. We had gotten our propane tanks filled in town, barely...we pulled into the Suburban Propane in Cortez at 1601. They stop selling propane at 1600 but they were more than happy to bend the rules and fill our tanks. They charged us $8. Nowhere else in town fills tanks, everything else is 20# tank exchanges. Needless to say, while we were blasting our furnace all night as I was nursing a head cold and the snow was piling up, I was very thankful for the nice ladies at the propane shop. Some poor couple pulled into camp after dark. My wife said they were in a pickup with a regular camper shell, sleeping in the back. I could hear them running their truck every half hour in the morning; I think they had relocated to the cab. They left before sun up.

We had two issues due to the cold:

Snow on the roof: We drove all over the park the next day and the water just kept dripping off the roof. I never looked up there to see how much snow had stuck, but from now on I want to be able to get up there and clear it when winter camping.

Frozen gray water drain: Nothing in the camper froze, but the black flex hose running from the camper to the gray water bucket was full of frozen yuck in the morning and our sink backed up a bit before we realized it. Not sure how to remedy this. We have the collapsible cubic 5 gallon jug thing. I like it because it is cheap and light, and I can jam it and the hose into the little storage spot on the outside of the fridge. But I don't like the one-way twisty valve between the hose and the jug. I get that you don't want your gray water burping gray air into the camper, but the valve is so weak that as the jug inflates with water, it almost always moves enough to twist the valve closed. Most of the time we don't notice until the sink backs up. And then, if you don't burp the damn thing good enough when you set it up, you end up with a big half-full water balloon that stops accepting deposits long before you expect it to. I think this is what cause the hose to stay full of water and then freeze.

 

[lzpup]

great thread, we were just up in bishop ca this weekend in the 20's. could feel the heat leaving. We have our hawk on a flatbed, I am interested in insulating the floor and turnbuckles. Also need to order an arctic pack , I am sure it must help a bit.

 

[BWSracing]

We found that the Mr. Buddy style heater produced too much condensation which then froze to all the cool surfaces. This happened at any temp below freezing. The frozen moisture eventually melts and rains down inside.

I have since installed a Suburban forced air furnace. While we still get condensation freezing on the ceiling, it's not nearly as bad as the Mr. Buddy heater.

Also, adding more insulation will help! We have a newer camper with the newer canvas and the arctic pack insulation and we could still use more insulation.

I have noticed the same thing. We have a forced air heater and significant ice/frost inside the camper. Is there anything to be done about this?