Help! First camper & GWVR woes!

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rystjohn

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So I've been asking for help on Expedition Portal regarding my truck's GVWR and the weight of my (potential) camper and would like to hear some opinions from a different crew.

Here's the skinny:
I own a 2000 F150 Lariat 4x4 w/95k, towing pkg, etc & 6.5' bed. The GVWR is 6500lbs. The truck weighed in at a CAT scale at a hefty 5700lbs with full tank, myself, lady & dog. We have ~800lbs to load.

I'm looking to buy a FWC Hawk, which with everything on it looks as though it's between 800-1000 pounds. Obviously as soon as I fill the water tank and put any gear in the camper, I'm overloaded. But this is also the lightest camper that I can find.

I wouldn't be so terribly concerned if this was a weekend thing, but if we buy this camper we will be full-timing out of it for a year at least. That's the plan. So the weight will always be on there and we're going to be doing a lot of traveling.

I've heard lots of support to keep my truck, but the FWC, and just put beefier leaf springs on there, and a few recommend air bags.

However when I research, most people say a F250 (or similar ¾ ton truck) would be better.

I'm on an extremely right budget (basically can only afford the camper right now) and I'm also on somewhat of a timeframe (the FWC I hope to buy is only available to me until the end of that month. Afterwards the price goes up and it's on the open market.)

So what do you recommend. Use all my money, buy the FWC and put springs on the truck I have?

Or do I let the offer on this FWC pass and sell my f150, hopefully use the money to buy a larger truck and therefore have my options expand on what camper I can buy....but also obviously risk my truck not selling or not getting enough, etc.

Help?!
 
Can you get the dog and the lady to lose some weight? :D

As you pointed out, there is a difference of opinion on this matter as some believe it is OK to go over on GVWR and others such as myself are more wary. You sound as though you fall into the latter camp. Last year I found that in the Bay Area used 3/4 ton trucks cost pretty much the same as 1/2 ton trucks perhaps because of the poorer gas mileage. Our Hawk, larded up with options, rides beautifully on our Sierra 2500 without any mods like new springs or airbags. The mileage is poor, but I just remind myself that piece of mind is worth it while I'm pumping the gas. BTW our Hawk came in at just under 1200 lbs from the factory.

I think you will have to decide how well you'll sleep and drive if you drop this Hawk on your F150. If you're going to stay on the road and you drive conservatively that's one thing and if you want to go off road or drive hard on road that's another because beefier springs will not help the rest of the truck handle the load.

Hope everything works out for you,

Alan
 
I have a 2001 f150 7700 series 8'box with Firestone ride rite air bags, 2004 Grandby on the back. Not sure what the weight is, I know empty I have 2300 lbs of cargo load due to the 7700 series . 5.4 V8 E rated tires. Works fine for me!
If I was you if the camper is a good deal you have enough motor? Good Brakes & Tires ? Air bags would help if needed. I would give it a shot. You will lose 100 lbs by removing the tailgate & camper jacks. " Ford Tough"
 
I ran into this previously with a 1400lb+ palomino bronco 800 on a 2011 gmc sierra extended cab 1/2 ton. I was uncomfortable with the idea that I was over. With camper fully loaded I weighed the truck with each tire on the scale and all tires on the scale to confirm that none of my tires or my axles were overloaded. I removed the tailgate and backseat from the truck, but left jacks on (was worried that I would need them, but never did, should have removed them). I ran lots of highway miles (coast to coast trips) set-up like this with stock suspension and had no issues. Main issue really was braking power rather than suspension. Ideally, you'd have a 3/4 ton truck, but as you hit the road with a marginally overloaded 1/2 ton you begin to see some massively overloaded trucks all over the place; my observation was that almost all truck campers on the road are sitting on overloaded trucks, especially given that campers are rarely as light as described on sales brochure or camper ID plates. I would suggest buying it and upgrading your springs when you can and upsizing your truck only if you are planning to buy a new truck... kind of like its not worth buying a new vehicle to improve fuel efficiency, but when you do buy a new vehicle you should consider improving fuel efficiency.
 
Here is a typical story of not knowing what the heck you are doing when you shop for a truck. You are asking all the right questions. I wish these forums had been around back then...

I run a 2001 F-150 4.6L 5-speed 3.31 rear end with E-rated tires and Hellwig helper springs and an 8' Alascan NCO which is heavier than your FWC. I bought this truck when I knew nothing of trucks and the salesman said, "Oh sure, it'll haul a camper". Turns out, this thing is known as a "grocery hauler" with a GCWR of only 6250 lbs (4575 lb of that is a dry truck) and max trailer weight of 1600 lbs. The same model with automatic tranny is GCWR of 10500 lbs and trailer weight of 5600 lbs! I was pretty upset when I learned all this. I mean, it's a truck, not a mini-van.

From what I've read, there are two schools of thought on this massive difference in rating: 1) Ford did not want to replace clutches on vehicles under warranty, or 2) the Mazda 5-speed tranny is just not up to dealing with very much load. Anyway, live and learn. When the tranny dies, I'll start shopping for a 3/4 ton. If anyone has insight on this issue, I'd love to hear. It would be good to know if my tranny is going to melt someday going down the road, or if I'm just going to be replacing clutches at a higher rate than normal. I wish I had known about the older models with ZF trannys.

With the springs, it is manageable but the high gearing means I'm on my second clutch at 80,000 miles. Did I mention I was younger and more ignorant when I bought it?

This trip was with 4 humans, the Alaskan, and 5 sled dogs in a trailer. Not something I'd want to do every day, but really the only thing I noticed was a lack of power on hills and longer braking distance. Handling was fine. The truck drives much better in snow with the camper on.

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/gallery/image/11603-bumping-lake/

I guess my point is that you will be able to do what you want to do with a 1/2 ton but consider E-rated tires and modified suspension.
 
It was touched on briefly, but I think that it bears repeating. GVWR is determined by several factors, one of which are the brakes. IF there is a "Heavy 1/2 ton" version in your truck's vintage with a higher GVWR I would look into how it's brakes might be different and what it would take to convert your truck to those brakes.
 
Yup. Wrong truck for a camper.

So here's what you do: Think like a backpacker --- don't haul anything you dont absolutely need.

First off, you will want to add air bags or Timbrens. My experience with FWC is that they are heavy on the driver's side and you will want air bags to correct side-to-side sag. (My FWC was from the 80's. Perhaps weight distribution has improved in newer models???). Make sure your tires can handle the load too.

Remove the jacks when traveling and tailgate.

Get the FWC with minimal options: No AC, no water heater, no extended cab-over, etc. Only what you need. (define "need" while watching the weight scale).

Fill the water tank only half way.

Never fill the gas tank more than half way (heck, you'll stop more often for gas, but also restrooms and coffee).

Carry "lego" style leveling blocks, NOT blocks of wood.

Campfire. What camp fire? Leave the wood at home.

Yes you are overloaded, but if you seriously watch your weight, you'll be ok.
 
Good list by "whizbang" with one exception. Don't buy without an extended cab over unless it is really cheap. I sold my 2002 Hawk only because it did not have the extended cabover. Making the bed at night cuts your camper in 1/2 with the short cabover.
It feels like less room than 1/2. FWC is only selling the extended cabover now and it has been standard on the ATC for a long time. That said a short cabover will work, I took one on a lap around the good old USA. It will effect the resale down the road and you can use this to get a lower price now if you go with the short cabover.
 
Plenty of folks use Taco's, Rangers, and Frontier's under their campers, and from what I've read they're pretty much in the same situation - close to or over the GVW with the bare camper. I don't think it's the wrong truck. There may be a better truck out there, but only you can make that decision. The advice to pack like a back-packer is excellent. We have a 3/4t diesel and I still try to pack like that. Where we fail is when the trip calls for Dutch Oven cooking, which seems to happen frequently.....
 
Everybody, again, thank you. I'd buy you all a beer if I could. Find me and I will!

So here's what it's come down to:

I have basically already come to the decision that my truck is simply too small being a 1/2 ton....

I want to use my truck, but simply put, I just don't feel comfortable doing it. I don't want to mess anything up on it and wind up screwed. I also not so secretly LOVE the idea of having an old body-style '97 F250 7.3 diesel powerstroke as our vehicle. Those things are bullet-proof and I really like how they look and drive.

My lady and I have both our vehicles on the market. Long story short we have buyers lined up on both vehicles and they should sell this week. The combined income from them should be 13K. Without getting into our finances too much, we also have another 5K that we can use if we need to, but would prefer to not.

I'm prepared to spend up to 10K on the truck, and then use the rest for a camper, dipping into our reserve funds if need be.

I've found a few '97 powerstrokes, and also a 2001 powerstroke. I don't know if anyone knows much about them, but the estimated hauling capacity they have is MUCH closer to my first expectations for my truck now. Even if I overload my new truck by a bit, I'll feel much safer than in the F150.

I don't really know what I'm asking or if I'm just commenting....I'm just now trying to figure out what truck I'll have and then select the camper from there I guess, and sadly pass on this gorgeous FWC in Texas that will pop up on the market soon I'm sure, unless we can figure out a way to swing both, but I don't think that'll happen.

My biggest thoughts now are that with the 3/4 ton truck I'll have a somewhat wider range of campers I can use, as well as probably a longer bed, which equals more space for the lady, dog and myself.

The '97 I'm going to test drive tonight has 194k on it, and the 2001 I want to test drive has 278K on it. Any suggestions? Both are priced nearly identically (2001 is $1k more) both are in great shape.
 
My 2 cents John, you will be much happier with the 3/4 ton as an Hawk " with options"is closer to 1,350 pounds dry
Our Eagle shell with improvements ( 2 cabinets, counter, portable refer, fan, awning, sink, aux battery) weighs 1,000 pounds dry (with no food, water, camping gear, clothes or toys)....which adds another 200-350 pounds. Water weighs 8 pounds per gallon. If your water tank is full (20 gallons) water alone is 160 pounds.

The weight FWC quotes is the BASE camper with NO options. Weigh your truck empty with full tank and no tailgate. After you install the camper weigh it dry. Then again loaded for a week or weekend. Add weight oftwo people and the dog...you will be happy you bought the 3/4 ton.
 
We sold our f150 and are looking for a camper and truck separately or as a package.

We are seriously considering purchasing a '97 F250 HD powerstroke that we found for a great price and only 2 hours away. It's lifted and has 37" tires. Solid body and frame, meticulously maintained, strong manual tranny, 4x4, etc.

We are really happy with it and think it will work for us but I want to hear y'all's opinions, thoughts, etcetera.

You've got roughly 24 hours before we pull the trigger. Stop us if we are making a bad choice, haha.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1402262124.043735.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1402262143.877589.jpg
 
Honestly I'm not a fan of buying already lifted vehicles. However if the lift is a kit from a well known manufacturer and you can have it looked over by a decent 4x4 shop, who installs the kits, for damage etc... I don't see a major problem with it. The biggest issue is that manufacturers size their drivetrain components for a certain tire size range, and anything above about a 33" tire on a full size is pushing that range. If I remember right Ford basically had two 3/4 ton trucks they built, the F-250 and the F-250HD with the major difference being extra cooling on automatics and larger basically 1 ton series axles. If the truck is a f-250HD you will probably be ok with moderate off road trails as long as you take it easy with the 37" tires. I think with it being a diesel it most likely is the HD model. I think your biggest issue will be the cost of 37" tires, however if your wheels are 16.5" in diameter you can get used military take offs for fairly cheap which should get your tire changes to under a grand, if you are buying new tires then you are probably going to be well over a grand when you include mounting and balancing.
 
bumping a bit of an older thread.

The trucks you've been looking at are probably gone by now. I was going to say pass with the 2001 with 287mi. That's a ton of miles. The engine is probably still fine but everything else will be work. Some major items and some nickel and dime items (body mounts, electrical in the cab, broken interior pieces) to majors like ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, etc.

I did the exact same thing you did without consulting the forum. Had a 1998 chevy half ton. I knew I had roughly 900-1000lbs carrying capacity. Awesome, these FWC hawks weigh 795lbs as per the sticker, right? sweet. Load with water and a few camping items, I'll be slightly overweight but pretty close, right? First drive was a holy sh!t experience. Well, not really, but definetely not enjoyable. I ended up putting better shocks, tires and super springs on. It definetely helped. It was manageable but not enjoyable. my wife sure didn't like driving it around either. The truck was getting tired and we were expecting a child so I used that as an excuse to get a 2003 3/4T dodge diesel. I haven't done a thing to the suspension and it is night and day better. A few times I've really loaded up the camper and hauled a boat and it still was comfortable to drive. As many posters have stated, the camper with options and loaded is pretty much close to double the factory sticker.

It sounds like you are set on Fords though, great trucks. Avoid the 6.0L diesel - some are good, most are not. You're on a tighter budget, so likely avoid them. I'm sure you've gone through the gas vs diesel debate. I will throw one idea out. Ford V10. Yes, it will get worse mileage than a diesel but cheaper to run for maintenance and will last a long long time. Some years have some spark plug issues, check into that (I believe it was the '99's??), beyond that, they're great. If you don't drive over 20k mi per year, the gas/diesel savings aren't super significant, or tow really heavy. To get a cheaper truck, you're looking into higher mileage diesels, you might be able to step into a slightly newer and/or lower mileage V10. Gas is a little higher right now, so you might find one for pretty cheap. They come in manual too!

oh yeah, don't limit yourself to just 3/4T, 1T single wheels are basically the exact same with an extra leaf spring. Not that you need a 1T, you may just be able to expand your search criteria and get a few more hits.

Also, I'm sure you've researched - lifts and tires suck for mileage and sometimes power if regearing hasn't been done. I borrowed a set of larger knobby tires for a road trip once (33" vs 31.5" stock). I lost about 2mpg and a slight bit of power according to my ass dyno. I think the majority of the loss was the knobs vs the size but they both played into each other. Good idea with sticking more stock-ish, will likely last longer anyways.
 
GBW - thanks for the input. I've seriously slacked on updating the forums here, but the lady and I purchased a '97 Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins. AWESOME truck! It has an extra helper spring already on the back as it's been very well taken care of. Now we are on the search for a camper! ImageUploadedByTapatalk1404349431.391690.jpg
 
Oh man....if we had 10K to spend, we'd be all over it. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) our budget is close to 4-6K at most. And we're hoping, ever so much, that something pops up closer....pun intended. :p
 
We're carrying a short bed Phoenix in our long bed Ram 2500. At times it would be nice to have the additional interior space, but most of the time I'm glad to have the space between the camper and the front of the bed for folding chairs, fire wood, and what-not storage. Having a bit of a 'porch' at the rear is nice too.

I don't think that you'll want or need the helper spring. I had our local 4x4 shop (Ruben @ Ventura 4x4) do as he taught me to do on my pre-runner/desert race-chase truck and flip the over-load leaves upside down. Ours are an under-rider type of over-load unlike the Ford's with their second set of springs above the main leaves. Basically our type of over-load works to shorten the effective length of the spring as it flattens out and comes into contact with the over-load. That shortening increases the spring's rate. Unfortunately it also severely detracts from the rear ride quality by making the rear of the truck tend to buck or kick. Not even good shocks (we're running Bilstein 5165's) can control this, and it tends to try to beat up the camper and it's contents..
By flipping the over-loads upside down (they have a mild arch to them) we keep the spring leaves from kinking where they bend over the spring perch on the axle which would happen if it were simply removed, but also avoid the rapid rise in spring rate that makes the rear ride so badly.
 
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