How important are rear lockers vs. "limited slip"?

[Durango1]

So I'm torn between RAM (which I have now and am pleased with) versus Ford in my search for a 1 ton "chassis cab" in a regular cab size w/ a FWC Granby flatbed on the back.

One defining difference is the Ford is available with factory rear e-lockers and the RAM only has a "limited slip differential". (Too be fair I've been four wheel driving my 2012 RAM 2500 for five years and never been stuck.)

Sioux and I obviously don't do major rock crawling in a 10,000# full size PU. But I like having something in reserve at all times. And at a (still healthy) 64 this just may be my "final build" (sounds ominous) so I'm trying to do it right and not skimp.

So how important is having an electronic rear locking axle? Plus any other advantages of RAM vs. Ford would be appreciated. (I'm going with the gas engine in either brand.)

Many thanks!
Steve

 

[klahanie]

I missed the e locker by a model year. Would have been nice but can't say I know for sure it would have made any difference to my driving up to this point. Think the Ford version kicks of at a fairly low speed so they're might be an "all the time" advantage to a LS (assuming the oem ones actually do anything)

On the Ford vs Ram. When I was shopping I wanted the highest GWV, payload, axle and wheel ratings avail in my configuration. Ford GVWR was 11,400 was Ram 10,000, that made it easy. I figured I'd need all the capacity I could find and would do the same today. With a reg cab I'd also consider space behind the seat for storage.

Good luck with it, gonna be fun !

 

[ntsqd]

I think it will depend on how limiting the limited slip is. If it's not very then the e-locker is the better bet. OTOH it sounds like what you have now is more than enough. A full time locker is not pavement or tire friendly, I'd count out those options. Does the RAM offer the LSD in the front too, or only in the rear? Has someone figured out how to defeat the speed turn-off of the factory e-locker? Usually the PCM will turn them off above some fairly low ground speed. In Toyota's this is known as "The Grey Wire Mod."

We have a Dana 70 rear axle with a retro-fitted Dana LSD. I couldn't be happier with it. Rarely notice it in tight pavement turns and have never noticed a slipping tire. Front is open and I on and off flirt with adding an ARB, OX-Locker, or similar. I periodically manage to convince myself that we don't need it. And then periodically decide that it would be a good "security blanket."

 

[rando]

I have the rear e-locker on my Tacoma, have been on several roads that are about the limit of what I am comfortable with 1500lbs of camper on the back and have never needed the locker. I have used it once or twice, but really only because I had it - I would have been fine with the ABS based traction control as well. Unless you are really planning on pushing things, I wouldn't make a decision based on the locker. A set of traction board/matts would be an more versatile safety blanket and are easy to carry on the flatbed.

 

[nikonron]

I have an 09 Tacoma and in the Maze at Canyonlands a few weeks a go, can't say that I really needed the locker but did engage it twice. You really don't want to slip a tire or spin on rock, that is when things can break. I was glad that I had the option. Never slipped a tire. It's a rougher place than most people venture to I'm sure. I too like being more than prepared. I travel alone off the beaten path. Ron

 

[iowahiker]

Some companies claim "limited slip" but they actually have "traction control". "True" limited slip is a mechanical device (a clutch for example) in the differential while "traction control" is braking the spinning wheel using the ABS sensors. Mechanical limited slip is better than braking the spinning wheel. My "limited slip" locks on in snow before "traction control" (we have both).

 

[CougarCouple]

Hi Durango1
Am I understanding correctly you would keep you dodge, if it had a full on locker vs the LS you currently have. The last sentence makes me think you are buying a new truck. Check wit ARB see if they offer one for the Dodge. The elocker in our Ford does disengage at a certain speed.
How important hard to say, do you see your self doing different terrain than you do now. I like lockers as there is no slippage when engaged definitely an advantage I think. ( you want traction when you want it )
We like our F250 10,000gvrw 6.2 gas 6 speed trans coil front, leaf rear.
Like other post go for the Most gvrw I would think is as or more important than traction device, most likely can be added.
Congrats on the new setup.
Russ

 

[Durango1]

Thanks to all and much to think about.

I'm checking on the RAM LS differential tomorrow. I was pretty naive and inexperienced five years ago when I bought the RAM 2500. And yet I gotta say it has never let me down!

So whether I go with the Ford or the Ram would it make sense to stay with the LS differential in the back and if needed install an ARB (or other brand) locker up front? It appears ARB at least has one for the 2017 3500 Rams and I assume will also have one for the 2018's.

Thanks!

 

[ntsqd]

Buy the truck that looks to fit your needs the best and leave the front diff option on the table. Take the truck on a few trips and see if you were ever in a situation where locking up the front would've been desirable - even if only from a peace of mind perspective.

This is what I've done (~5 years, not just a few trips) and we still don't have a front locker.

 

[Durango1]

Interesting stuff. I just assumed I needed "lockers" but with all the input I see a LS differential maybe be better and offer more flexibility for the rear end. Honestly I've never had a problem in the last five years and we haven't been shy on the trails we go on.

 

[rando]

If you haven't needed lockers in the last 5 years, it seems extremely unlikely you would need them now. Particularly as electronic traction control aids keep getting better and better.

 

[klahanie]

Think the Ls is gone on the Fords. Open or elock are the choices. I'm not really sure what they're using on the 350 C&C. Might still be the sterling 10.5 (which had the elock choice also)

 

[GP100]

Hey Durango - This is my first post here, but wanted to add my .02.

I say save the expense of buying a new truck if you're pleased with your Ram. I have a 2016 Ram 2500 4wd, regular cab, 4.10 gears, 6.4 L. and have never been stuck with the factory LSD. I think the key to not getting stuck is knowing your limitations, especially in a full-size rig. Also, having good tires is a must. I'm running some new Toyo R/Ts in 285/75/18 and couldn't be happier! If you could get a factory LSD unit installed and some good meaty tires (assuming you don't already have them), I think you'd be good to go. Also might want to make sure you have good recovery gear (and know how to use it) for the just in case. You'd save THOUSANDS over the price of a new truck.

Now all that said, if you did decide to get a new truck, the RAM line can be a really good value if you skip the higher trim levels. I ordered my truck just the way I wanted it (pretty stripped down) and walked out of the dealership paying just under $30K (with a couple thousand for my trade). BTW, there is a surprising amount of room behind the seat in the regular cab.

Cheers!

 

[Squatch]

Here is the difference. With both tires on the ground they will act the same and give power to both wheels. If one rear tire is lifted the one in the air will get the power with a LSD. Applying a little brake pedal will help some. With one tire in the air a locker will still send full power to the tire on the ground.

Both can get you into trouble on ice. A tight LSD or locker will let the rear end slip out quickly if not careful. Especially on off camber surfaces.

Personally I love the combo of a rear LSD and front selectable (ARB, E locker) locker in vehicles that truly get worked hard off road.

I think for big trucks that carry a camper I really don't want to get the truck anyplace I'd really need a locker. A good LSD is nice to have though.

I know you are talking about OEM equipment on a new truck. But in general if it was an add on I'll go for a winch every time before a locker. A locker will get you deeper into trouble a winch will get you out!

 

[Squatch]

GP you posted while I was typing. Good post. I agree. Good tires and a LSD will take you places street tires and a locker won't!
An after market locker can be added to your existing truck much cheaper than buying a new truck.

 

[Vic Harder]

I read up on this a while back, but can't find the exact video I saw that convinced me that for the way I use my truck (Daily Driver, with only occasional gravel road and easy/medium off road) - and DD includes snow/ice driving - that an LSD in the rear is preferable to e-locker because it will kick in more often when needed, vs needing to stop and select it before driving some nasty stuff.

If you are into more rock crawling, then e-lockers front an rear would be preferable.

For me, the same R&D indicated that if I was going to get into more serious offroading, I would simply add a front e-locker to the existing LSD setup I already have.

These links might help:

https://www.4wheelparts.com/buyers-guides/axles-ring-pinion/differentials.aspx
http://www.offroadxtreme.com/engine-tech/drivetrain/whats-the-diff-we-look-at-lockers-and-limited-slips-with-eaton/
http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/89231-Limited-Slip-Faceoff-Detroit-TrueTrac-vs-ARB-Air-Locker

 

[Machinebuilder]

I have a 2011 F150 with a limited slip rear.

In my experience if the traction control is active there seems to a fight between them.

I also found that I don’t like the traction control active in slippery conditions, I prefer to turn it off and use the limited slip.

I hope that with the electric locker it is integrated into the traction control.

 

[craig333]

Don't have one but I'd like but so far I've not needed one. I drive the truck pretty conservatively.

Having an autolocker in the Jeep (detroit) often eliminates the need to engage four wheel drive. As has been said it can be iffy in snow (I avoid ice if at all possible) as it wants to push the Jeep in a straight line. Its fine following the tracks but as soon as you leave the tracks its difficult get back in. I'll leave the truck with open diffs before I put an autolocker in it.

One thing, and the reason I don't have one in the truck, lockers are expensive and not easy to install. I had a pro do the install in the Jeep.

 

[ckent323]

There were some exchanges on LSD vs lockers vs winch in this thread (around comment #58 and subsequent)

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/14849-front-bumpers-winches-and-lights-thoughts-opinions-experience-etc/page-7