Iota DLS-30/IQ4 and Lithium Batteries

[buckst4]

I'm looking at upgrading from AGM to Lithium and am currently exploring the details. Does anyone know if the Iota DLS-30/IQ4 that came with my 2017 Hawk will properly charge a lithium battery? Iota sells an optional item called an IQ-LIFEPO that connects to their DLS-30 unit but I'm wondering if it will work on my DLS-30 model that has the IQ4 functionality built into it. If not, looks like I'd need to replace the current Iota with either their base model + LIFEPO adaptor or go to a different brand charger altogether.

Any info you can share would be much appreciated.

 

[JWL]

bucks I was wondering the same thing in planning the buildout on my new Hawk Shell. So do you mind if I also ask if it is the same one used on the 2020 models and would also require the same for Lithium?

 

[PaulT]

Unless there has been an update from Iota, the built-in IQ4 can not be updated to support LiFePO4 batteries optimally. My Iota DLS-30 has the external IQ4, so I replaced the lead acid version with the IQ4-LIFEPO when I switched to Battleborn batteries as it cost only $18.

Call the battery mfg. support line to ask if their battery will be fine with your Iota. It may not be the optimal charging protocol but workable. This is especially true if you have solar with a LiFePO4 charging protocol.

Keep in mind that the truck charging system is also not optimized for LiFePO4 and few people worry about that.
Go for the switch to lithium and if your Iota fails in the future or the economy improves & you’re feeling flush with cash, you can always get the Iota with IQ4-LIFEPO unit at that time. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Paul

 

[veryactivelife]

I would second what Paul started as I went through this last fall. Bought the IQ4-LIFEPO only to discover it’s not compatible with Iotas that have onboard IQ4. Next step, which should have been my first step, was to contact the battery company. The Iota change profile has a bulk rate that is above what my Lion Energy batteries require (14.6v) and then the multi stage profile drops it down below 14.6v. Lion Energy advised that the batteries can handle up to 15v and the BMS in the batteries would limit the charging if exceeded. They told me the charge profile of the Iota would not be harmful, just not efficient. As I rarely rely on shore power to charge the batteries I’m not worrying about it.

The truck to camper charging is the bigger concern and I’m currently upping my wires to 4AWG and installing a Victron Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC charger. Late model vehicles have smart alternators that limit charging once the vehicle battery attains a specified voltage, consequently you will not get enough voltage to the camper battery to charge. There are also risks to the vehicle system. https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2019/10/07/careful-alternator-charging-lithium/

Dean

 

[rando]

Very well said. I don't think the IQ4-LiFePO is really much better than the default. If you only use the shore power occasionally (or pretty much not at all, like me) then just leave it with the default Iota converter.

If you expect to use shore power a lot and leave your camper plugged in, then it is probably worth upgrading to a configurable charger (not converter) so you can dial in the right profile for your battery.

PS Veryactiveife, if you are going with the a DC-DC charger, then you probably don't need to upgrade your wires - that is one of the selling points of the DC-DC.

I would second what Paul started as I went through this last fall. Bought the IQ4-LIFEPO only to discover it’s not compatible with Iotas that have onboard IQ4. Next step, which should have been my first step, was to contact the battery company. The Iota change profile has a bulk rate that is above what my Lion Energy batteries require (14.6v) and then the multi stage profile drops it down below 14.6v. Lion Energy advised that the batteries can handle up to 15v and the BMS in the batteries would limit the charging if exceeded. They told me the charge profile of the Iota would not be harmful, just not efficient. As I rarely rely on shore power to charge the batteries I’m not worrying about it.

The truck to camper charging is the bigger concern and I’m currently upping my wires to 4AWG and installing a Victron Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC charger. Late model vehicles have smart alternators that limit charging once the vehicle battery attains a specified voltage, consequently you will not get enough voltage to the camper battery to charge. There are also risks to the vehicle system. https://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2019/10/07/careful-alternator-charging-lithium/

Dean

 

[buckst4]

Thanks all for your input on my charging question. Rando, your point about how often shore power gets used is spot on. For me it's an infrequent thing and your advice to leave the Iota alone makes sense. The concern raised by Paul & Dean about truck alternator charging has me exploring the DC-DC charger option. Several product choices out there, none inexpensive. I just need to remember that buying and upgrading a camper was never going to be sound fiscal policy.

Dan

 

[pvstoy]

I just need to remember that buying and upgrading a camper was never going to be sound fiscal policy.

Dan

+1

 

[craig333]

Considering the cost of therapy its not so bad

 

[CougarCouple]

This is from the manufacturer I asked same question.


Yes sir the DLS-30 IQ4 will charge lithium batteries.
I would recommend checking with the battery manufacturer to see what there maximum charge voltage is.
The DLS-30 IQ4 that you have charges at 14.8 in bulk, 14.2 in absorption and 13.6 in float.

Thank you.

Cody Frosco

Technical Support
T:855-363-9527


Hope this helps.
Russ

 

[veryactivelife]

Very well said. I don't think the IQ4-LiFePO is really much better than the default. If you only use the shore power occasionally (or pretty much not at all, like me) then just leave it with the default Iota converter.

If you expect to use shore power a lot and leave your camper plugged in, then it is probably worth upgrading to a configurable charger (not converter) so you can dial in the right profile for your battery.

PS Veryactiveife, if you are going with the a DC-DC charger, then you probably don't need to upgrade your wires - that is one of the selling points of the DC-DC.

Rando, I have a pretty long run between batteries, probably around 20', based on Victron's recommendations I decided to upgrade the wires. KP Pawley of Sixgun Twelvevolt did a similar install for a customer and found that the factory wiring was not up to it.

 

[veryactivelife]

This is from the manufacturer I asked same question.


Yes sir the DLS-30 IQ4 will charge lithium batteries.
I would recommend checking with the battery manufacturer to see what there maximum charge voltage is.
The DLS-30 IQ4 that you have charges at 14.8 in bulk, 14.2 in absorption and 13.6 in float.

Agreed, checking with the battery manufacturer is smart for any battery and charging setup. Charging profile do vary even among the same battery type. In my case I was told the batteries are rated for 15 max and as long as I did not exceed it the BMS in batteries would handle it, the charge voltage is 14.6 and the float is 13.8 volts.

 

[rando]

Rando, I have a pretty long run between batteries, probably around 20', based on Victron's recommendations I decided to upgrade the wires. KP Pawley of Sixgun Twelvevolt did a similar install for a customer and found that the factory wiring was not up to it.

There is certainly no harm in upgrading - but at 30A any wire larger than 10AWG should be fine. The usual '3% voltage drop' rules don't apply here as the DC-DC boosts the voltage back up to where it needs to be.

 

[Vic Harder]

I think it depends on where the DC-DC charger is located. If in the engine bay, then bigger wires are a must. If in the camper battery box, then the stock wiring is fine.

 

[Fielding.dots]

To hop in late..

I recently upgraded to lifep04. I have a victron mppt 100/30 controller, battery monitor and a canbat 100ah battery.

If I understand this correctly... If I'm charging my LiFePO4 while driving my truck I run the risk of damaging my alternator? And if I install the Victron Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC charger (30amp version) I will prevent the camper battery from draining my truck batter and save my alternator. If I site the DC DC charger next to my camper battery I should upgrade the wiring from truck battery to DC DC charger and shunt to 4awg? I have 6awg right now from shunt to camper battery.

Is this correct?

I have a 2006 Kestrel. Since it's winter in the cloudy PNW I charge using shore power between trips.

Thank

 

[Vic Harder]

4g from truck to camper would be good to prevent the DC-DC from cycling on/off. It has been suggested that if you use the remote switch on the Orion, you won't have to upgrade the wiring as you can force the Orion to stay on vs autosensing.

If you have the Victron Battery monitor, check what amps you are getting while the engine is running and the camper battery is low. When I had lead acid batteries and 2g wiring, I could see 90A.

 

[rubberlegs]

Would it be possible to wire the Iota DLS-30/IQ4 into a DC-DC charger, using the alternator inputs? Or would it get confused while it's trying to measure the battery voltage/current?

I suppose there might be a problem you plug into shore power, and turn on the engine at the same time. Then the alternator and Iota power converter would be battle-borning each other.

 

[Vic Harder]

? The iota DLS takes an AC input and with the lithium dongle, outputs what the batteries need.

Adding a DCDC charger take the output of the alternator and compensates for voltage drop to also give the batteries what they want.

Can they both run at the same time? Sure, if you are on shore power and have the truck running too.

Add in solar, and all three systems can funnel charging power to the batteries at the same time.

I haven’t tried all three at once, but with DCDC and 360W solar I have seen 600W going in.

 

[Jon R]

I converted my new Grandby to LiFePO with a dc to dc charger and solar system right after delivery. I left the DLS-30 in place, but never use it. I have left it connected and it can be used in two ways: 1) as a shore power source in “power supply mode” with the battery switch off, so no charging occurs, or 2) as a monitored, manually timed bulk charger if I ever accidentally let the battery get low at home and need a fast partial charge.

I’ve used it for the second purpose once, and never for the first purpose other than to demonstrate it.

 

[rubberlegs]

? The iota DLS takes an AC input and with the lithium dongle, outputs what the batteries need.

Sorry, I didn't explain properly.

I was thinking of using my old Iota DLS-30/IQ4, which is designed for AGM batteries. I have seen conflicting information on whether it's ok to use that to charge a lithium battery. I just contacted Renogy, for instance, and they said don't do it. But with the way the exchange went, I'm not sure the person knew the answer.

 

[Jon R]

I would not use a DLS-30 that is set up for a lead-acid battery to do unmonitored charging of a lithium battery. There is a potential for the applied charging voltage to go higher than the maximum recommended by most lithium battery manufacturers.