Leak behind siding

[cfike]

I noticed that the roughly 1"x4" piece of plywood that runs along the bottom under the rear door of my 2010 Fleet was starting to delaminate. I decided to replace the board and when I tore it off I found that it was water damaged.



Water seemed to be coming from the driver’s side rear corner and when I removed some of the siding in this area it was damp behind it.

The water might be originating in the area where the camper widens above the truck bed. Has anyone else ever had this problem? I want to find the problem but I don’t want to pry any more siding loose than I have to, especially since that seems like it might require removing a jack bracket and propane storage door. The camper has just been sitting outside, I haven’t exposed it to any road-driven moisture lately.

 

[WaltK]

I noticed that the roughly 1"x4" piece of plywood that runs along the bottom under the rear door of my 2010 Fleet was starting to delaminate. I decided to replace the board and when I tore it off I found that it was water damaged.

Water seemed to be coming from the driver’s side rear corner and when I removed some of the siding in this area it was damp behind it.

The water might be originating in the area where the camper widens above the truck bed. Has anyone else ever had this problem? I want to find the problem but I don’t want to pry any more siding loose than I have to, especially since that seems like it might require removing a jack bracket and propane storage door. The camper has just been sitting outside, I haven’t exposed it to any road-driven moisture lately.


First thing to figure out is if it's a leak, or condensation. Dealing with each is different.

You need to get to all the wet and damaged wood to fix it, don't leave any discolored wood as it's likely to have mold spores in it. With care everything comes apart relatively easily. Had that area apart on my shell Eagle while in the process of installing propane compartment and new door. ON mine a fair number of the galvanized staples used to hold the siding were badly rusted and clearly did leak a little wet in but mine was completely dry and while discolored the wood did not appear to have rot. Some aluminum siding was beginning to corrode around those staples. I'm removing every one of those staples I find, and if it's necessary to put new staples back I'll use stainless steel staples. So far no need to staple anything. It can all be put back with stainless steel screws. By your description of the problem with the original board that sounds like a more advanced case of the rusting staples being the route to rot.

When you replace the wood use pressure treated wood, and it does not hurt to put wood preservative on even that. All my lower corner wood I put wood preservative on as I worked in the area. It tends to be a low circulation area, thus prone to dry rot. I use copper based preservative, available in green or dark brown, but I found I had to get it off the internet, local stores no longer carry it. (I'm all too familiar with dealing with this sort of thing in wood boats, but the camper has some places that are in need of preservative too)

Note the calk on the trim aluminum along that area was beginning to fail on my 2007 Eagle. That can be a route in for the water. I put my trim back with new calk, stainless screws and no staples into the wood, not even stainless. Made sure to form a drip edge below everything when calking so it can't wick back up.

You might want to check if the bed of your truck is pooling water under the camper. Some truck beds are very poorly drained. You need both drainage and air circulation under the camper. Circulation is one of the reason why the bottom layer of ply is put in strips with open spaces.

 

[jbahr]

Since your fresh water drain is right there, you should check to see if you have a hole in the line or crack in the fixture.

 

[Gormley Green]

My hawk has the extra wood frame on the bottom for my deep F150 bed. While stored outside water runs down the sides and back of the camper and has soaked into the cross piece going from rear corner to rear corner under the camper. The wood has delaminated. Since its the rainy season and I can't put the camper inside all I can do is wait until spring to start tearing off rotted wood and replacing. I hope it doesn't damage the floor badly (or at all)!!

 

[WaltK]

My hawk has the extra wood frame on the bottom for my deep F150 bed. While stored outside water runs down the sides and back of the camper and has soaked into the cross piece going from rear corner to rear corner under the camper. The wood has delaminated. Since its the rainy season and I can't put the camper inside all I can do is wait until spring to start tearing off rotted wood and replacing. I hope it doesn't damage the floor badly (or at all)!!


De-lamination seems strange. I'd expect all the ply was using glue that could take it.

If you are not going camping with it you might just get it off the truck. More air under it will help slow the damage. And you can start finding out what you will have to fix. Put a tarp over it, it's much easier to work on that bottom off the truck. I grew up in the Pacific Northwet rain is just lived with. Never allowed to defeat us.

I have no inside space for my Eagle either. I'm holding a constant battle with rain here at the moment, even though Georgia is in drought. We only have had 35 inches of rain this year instead of the normal which is about 50". I don't think it's going to get to normal in the next two weeks. But it's sure trying to interfere, I had the Eagle under a tarp until a few days ago when I got tired of it and had the door and propane compartment outsides buttoned up so it could handle rain. I went out today in the pouring rain, no tarp. went through the Eagle with a flashlight as this was the heaviest rain we have had and it was pouring. No damp spots or leaks inside and the top is up to give it plenty of chance, so I'm happy for that. Then brought in the aluminum shelf I'd painted yesterday, it goes under the fridge and I shook all the water off and put it in place to dry. Can't do much with the rain, I'm at the stage of fitting out the propane storage and pipes, and that requires I be in and out of the Eagle a lot. The shelf cannot go in to stay until that propane compartment and it's equipment is done. But once that's done and the fridge is on the shelf I'll have a lot more room to move about inside and hope to not have to wait the rain as much. If it gets too annoying the tarp is right there and I can put it back on and rig some lights to see under the tarp. I'm nearly ready to temp hook up the battery bank and it's maintenance charging which will allow using the Eagle's lights again. Lots of wiring to add as well.

I am doing it in bits and pieces as the weather allows. And not complaining about the rain we need so badly. When it's not rain it's cold now. Spring is when I want it done and us out enjoying using it.

 

[Gormley Green]

I would have expected the same thing. I don't leave the camper on the truck when I'm not using it, it's on a crib with lot of airspace underneath. It seems I have water in basically the same places as you. I perhaps I should have covered the whole camper in a big tarp before the rainy season, but I wanted to keep the solar exposed to maintain the battery. I have black mold beginning to stain larg parts of the grey paint on the wooden underside, and water damage to at least 3 small locations that I have noticed.

 

[Overland Hadley]

Gormley Green, can you post some photos? I am interested in what to watch out for.

 

[WaltK]

Gormley Green, can you post some photos? I am interested in what to watch out for.


My 2007 Eagle (5 years old and stored outside in a dry climate) has the early signs of this sort of thing. I'm assuming the newer, worse off campers are in a more wet climate. Here's three photos taken along the same area in my Eagle. In all photos the edge molding has already been removed, and some of the siding as well. There are 4 layers of plywood in the floor on my Eagle. But it's not preservative treated, nor is the paint enough to waterproof it. The early stages of this sort of damage are hidden under the siding and the edge molding covering it. By the time it gets soft underneath you are into repair.

Near the driver's side corner. Note the white bits are corrosion byproducts from the siding which is corroding starting primarily from the rusty staples and screws near the edge.

Under the door area. Note more corrosion of the siding in evidence, rust around bottom screws and staples and dark discoloration spreading from them. This is the start of rot, I'm hoping I caught it in time and the preservative will stop it.

To the right of the door bottom, even more rust and discoloration here. Also note in the photos how the lines of screws were driven between the plywood layers, allowing more water to work in. The primary source of water is failure of the calk under the edge molding, and that the siding ended short of the bottom of the ply.


I have removed all the plated screws and staples. No need to replace the staples at all, and the edge molding has been recaulked in this area and screws used to attach it back are stainless steel. All the wood in the area was soaked with several passes of Woodlife preservative before putting it back together. I'll find out in time if that's enough to stop the progress of the damage. If not the ply that I will use to replace it will be pressure treated, and of course stainless fasteners and lots of calk. Even if I have to use staples I have stainless ones.

Note where staples or screws were put into the aluminum frame that it bent around the fasteners. That's really thin aluminum, the two pieces of tube that show in one photo is some new tubing I'm using in my rebuild, it's 1/8" thick, far thicker than the original frame tube, it does not distort around the fasteners.

Note the opening on the driver's side I had to remove the middle aluminum tube to make a opening that would work with the FWC plastic propane enclosure and the two 10lb tanks. The plastic enclosure had to be cut down to fit the Eagle shell since the opening was not the right size to fit it into. The door for that also had to have a support plate of starboard to deal with not matching the hole.

 

[Stan@FourWheel]

Hello cfike

Thanks for posting pictures.


Can you call Terry in our service department when you have time? (no hurry)

FWC SERVICE

ASK FOR TERRY

1-800-242-1442


He might be able to better guide you through the process and what to look for.

If you have more pictures you want to send us, that would be great.

It will help Terry and the guys in production figure out what might be happening back there.


Thanks so much.

Wait to hear from you.

Stan


.

 

[Gormley Green]

I do live in one of the wettest places in Canada with approx 2400mm (95") of rain per year. When I take a day off from playing in the hills I will definitely jack the camper up a bit and get some photos of my areas of concern. I won't be able to remove any siding until spring when the rainy season ends, as I don't want to start a project like that with the winter weather we get here.

I'm glad for this thread it seems like this may be more common than I thought and I'm glad to hear FWC is interested as well.

 

[Overland Hadley]

The primary source of water is failure of the calk under the edge molding, and that the siding ended short of the bottom of the ply.

Thanks for the info Walt. So, on your camper, the main problem for water ingress to the wood is the calk failing on the bottom edge moulding. Correct? And this is on the back wall of the camper, anywhere else?

I am now thinking that I might want to cover the back of the camper as it faces north, the direction of our precipitation.

Thanks again for the detailed info.

 

[frosty_1]

I too live in a very wet area and am concerned about these issues with my new camper on it's way. Has anyone considered coating the bottom of the camper and any other exposed wood areas with a waterproofer, perhaps bed-liner? For $88 on Amazon one could pick up a Herculiner kit and coat the bottom and exposed wood. Thoughts?

f.

 

[WaltK]

Thanks for the info Walt. So, on your camper, the main problem for water ingress to the wood is the calk failing on the bottom edge moulding. Correct? And this is on the back wall of the camper, anywhere else?

I am now thinking that I might want to cover the back of the camper as it faces north, the direction of our precipitation.

Thanks again for the detailed info.


Let's put it correctly, problems I've found, I've certainly not taken everything apart yet though between what I saw at FWC of the bare frames and so on plus what I've found on my Eagle I've gained a fair understanding of how they are designed and built. Note for instance the same type of molding is found along the bottom edge of the front of the camper. It's more protected by the overhead, but eventually I'll probably pull it up if for no other reason to replace the fasteners with stainless, and remove the staples. For sure in due course I'll be replacing all the external screws with stainless and also new calk as needed. The roof is definitely on my to do list.

As far as I've seen so far the biggest risks in the camper have to do with using electroplated screws and staples. A 5 year old camper should not have heavily rusted fasteners in it, yet along the bottom edge under the molding that's what I found. Yes the calk failing to keep water away is a participant, but there would be less damage if the fasteners were stainless. The answer to that problem is to use stainless steel fasteners. Every fastener I remove will be put back stainless steel, though some fasteners won't be put back as they really are not needed and only got in there to speed production. The staples I've run into so far fit that category, though if I need to use staples I have the exact same size staples in stainless steel that I'd use.

Note also that while the use of very thin aluminum in the structure may help the camper to flex, it leads to potential problems of it's own. For instance the screws fastening the old rear door on mine had pulled the structural aluminum tubing up when tightened. Those "cones" around the holes had stress cracks, which can be the start of expanded cracks, and of course weakening the hold of the fasteners. And fastening the siding with staples to the aluminum structure also put stress dimples in the structure. FWC probably needs to expand their glue fastening of thin aluminum to frame to more than just the roof. Though I'm not a great fan of glue assembly as it makes it harder to repair than screws and sealant. I'm being very careful how I put screws into the frame, and if I have to replace some stapled part I'll probably do it with stainless screws or bolts. For the molding I replaced the screws with stainless of the same size into the original holes which I injected with preservative first. The molding, if done with care is fairly easy to take off and put back.

Last year I had a boat built for our photography forays in shallow water areas. Fiberglass and synthetic structural panel is it's strength, and that means no rot. I've thought that if I had to repair the Eagle's floor that might be a way to go. Need to study weight of various options in the new stuff.

It's probably better to make sure the sealing is good than to throw a tarp over it. Tarps tend to hold moisture in from condensation. I consider them more a temporary solution.

 

[WaltK]

I too live in a very wet area and am concerned about these issues with my new camper on it's way. Has anyone considered coating the bottom of the camper and any other exposed wood areas with a waterproofer, perhaps bed-liner? For $88 on Amazon one could pick up a Herculiner kit and coat the bottom and exposed wood. Thoughts?

f.


Coating with a waterproof layer could turn your floor into a moisture holding bucket, making matters worse. However, preservative like Woodlife does not seal the wood but just helps to poison the mold so is worthwhile. It's a awful job, this is stuff you really don't want to get on you while painting it on and it's thin and watery. Just the thing to crawl around under a camper with Luckily you can wash it off with water if you get some on you.

It's harder to get than it used to be, some major stores don't want to mess with stuff that might attract the hazmat team. The variety I'm using on the Eagle is some I had that's brown in color, but here's one of the more green versions that's the same key ingredients:
http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-1904-Wolman-Coppercoat-Preservative-Below/dp/B003KR23PU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_lg_3

 

[Overland Hadley]

Coating with a waterproof layer could turn your floor into a moisture holding bucket, making matters worse.


I agree.

 

[cfike]

Since your fresh water drain is right there, you should check to see if you have a hole in the line or crack in the fixture.


I thought about that, but I have had the water tank drained for a few months

 

[cfike]

Hello cfike

Thanks for posting pictures.
Can you call Terry in our service department when you have time? (no hurry)
FWC SERVICE ASK FOR TERRY 1-800-242-1442
He might be able to better guide you through the process and what to look for. If you have more pictures you want to send us, that would be great. It will help Terry and the guys in production figure out what might be happening back there.

Thanks so much.
Wait to hear from you.
Stan


Thanks for making the effort to contact me. I did call Terry and he was very helpful. Based on his advice I will install a drain in the floor of the propane storage compartment and caulk the siding when it goes back on. I appreciate everyone at 4WC taking the time and making an extra effort to help out. -Chad

 

[super doody]

Mold Control:

I live on the coast so its always damp in our house. We recently encapsulated your crawl space and they used fogger of this product:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_268007-64395-025-326_0__?productId=3623280

I recently used the same product after I found a leak between our walls....after drying out the wood of course.

 

[WaltK]

Thanks for making the effort to contact me. I did call Terry and he was very helpful. Based on his advice I will install a drain in the floor of the propane storage compartment and caulk the siding when it goes back on. I appreciate everyone at 4WC taking the time and making an extra effort to help out. -Chad


Is this the plastic compartment that's sealed to prevent propane getting from it into the camper? I'm in the process of installing that compartment and the propane distribution system. In my Eagle shell I had to cut off 1" of the compartment liner to make it fit. Planned on sealing the open edge to separate compartment from camper. And there will be a propane detector in the hidden spaces behind the compartment that includes a shutdown valve system.

The wood around the compartment I've already preservative treated as a extra measure.

Question is if FWC is making the mentioned drain a standard part of their build and exactly where do they put it? There are 4 layers of plywood below that compartment and a drain installed through all that could be a route back in as well as draining for the compartment. The compartment hatch is a ventilated one to the outside, which I'd expect would keep condensation down. So far in recent heavy rain the compartment and wood outside of it is staying perfectly dry. Final sealing awaits finishing the propane distribution piping.

 

[jbahr]

Question is if FWC is making the mentioned drain a standard part of their build ...


Yes! This is required by NFPA 1192 Section 5.2.6 Ventilation of Compartments Containing Propane Containers.