Lithium Battery advise

[ottorogers]

I Just purchased a brand new Grandby from Rocky Mountain FWC in Denver, picking it up in Mid November. I deleted the 2-6V batteries, I think I can do much better with 1-100 AMP HOUR lithium battery, it should provide about the same amount of usable power as 2-225 AMP hour 6V golf cart batteries, because you can only use about 100 AMP hours of the 225. My question is where to get the best price for either a single 100 AMP HOUR lithium battery or a 150 AMP HOUR lithium?? I do not mind spending up to $1,000, GC2 batteries only seem to last 3-4 years in my experience, they off gas a lot, require maintenance, and are VERY HEAVY, Lithium seems to be a no brainer, especially for a FWC weighing in at over 2,000 LBS with 2 adults and all our gear (in a fully loaded Granby), I would even go for a 200 AMP HOUR lithium if I could find a good deal. Really appreciate any (good) advice from my fellow FWC members, thanks

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-Battery/dp/B07FDHRP45/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539391577&sr=8-1&keywords=lithium+battery+170+AMP

 

[longhorn1]

I Just purchased a brand new Granby from Rocky Mountain FWC in Denver, picking it up in Mid November. I deleted the 2-6V batteries, I think I can do much better with 1-100 AMP HOUR lithium battery, it should provide about the same amount of usable power as 2-225 AMP hour 6V golf cart batteries, because you can only use about 100 AMP hours of the 225. My question is where to get the best price for either a single 100 AMP HOUR lithium battery or a 150 AMP HOUR lithium?? I do not mind spending up to $1,000, GC2 batteries only seem to last 3-4 years in my experience, they off gas a lot, require maintenance, and are VERY HEAVY, Lithium seems to be a no brainer, especially for a FWC weighing in at over 2,000 LBS with 2 adults and all our gear (in a fully loaded Granby), I would even go for a 200 AMP HOUR lithium if I could find a good deal. Really appreciate any (good) advice from my fellow FWC members, thanks

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-Battery/dp/B07FDHRP45/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539391577&sr=8-1&keywords=lithium+battery+170+AMP

For the record it is "Grandby"[emoji41] On the Wander the West Forum I believe it is Iowahawker did a build-out with Lithium batteries and provided great follow-up. One thing is they don't do well in cold weather.

 

[billharr]

I have been following the lithium battery threads. A year ago I was convinced I would go lithium when my 2013 AGMs died. Not sure anymore. 5 + years and my AGMs are still working fine. I do have 250watts of solar with a Victron MTTP set to charge AGMs. This keeps them charged all the time. For the money involved going to Lithium does not pencil out if I can get 5 + years from my AGMs.

Years ago I had boats, young and tight on money. Needed a new propeller and talked to the local propeller repair shop. Asked about a Stainless propeller. Was told it was great if you can afford it, but aluminum was fine if not. This is how I feel about lithium at this time.

 

[Vic Harder]

I Just purchased a brand new Granby from Rocky Mountain FWC in Denver, picking it up in Mid November. I deleted the 2-6V batteries, I think I can do much better with 1-100 AMP HOUR lithium battery, it should provide about the same amount of usable power as 2-225 AMP hour 6V golf cart batteries, because you can only use about 100 AMP hours of the 225. My question is where to get the best price for either a single 100 AMP HOUR lithium battery or a 150 AMP HOUR lithium?? I do not mind spending up to $1,000, GC2 batteries only seem to last 3-4 years in my experience, they off gas a lot, require maintenance, and are VERY HEAVY, Lithium seems to be a no brainer, especially for a FWC weighing in at over 2,000 LBS with 2 adults and all our gear (in a fully loaded Granby), I would even go for a 200 AMP HOUR lithium if I could find a good deal. Really appreciate any (good) advice from my fellow FWC members, thanks

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-Battery/dp/B07FDHRP45/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539391577&sr=8-1&keywords=lithium+battery+170+AMP

Good thinking. Did you delete the solar controller too? I don't think the stock ZAMP can be configured for Lithium. Victron can.

 

[ottorogers]

For the record it is "Grandby"[emoji41] On the Wander the West Forum I believe it is Iowahawker did a build-out with Lithium batteries and provided great follow-up. One thing is they don't do well in cold weather.

Yes I am worried about the "Cold weather" issue, we often get to -40 where I live, but we are gone all winter, especially the cold months, and I can always bring in the Lithium battery from the camper inside the house when necessary, they are easy to handle compared to 6V golf cart batteries. If they are fully charged they are not as vulnerable I think?

 

[ottorogers]

Good thinking. Did you delete the solar controller too? I don't think the stock ZAMP can be configured for Lithium. Victron can.

I certainly hope the solar controller that comes with FWC can handle lithium batteries, that would be very disappointing (and short sighted of FWC) if it is not designed to handle lithium batteries. I will call Monday to make sure

 

[ottorogers]

I have been following the lithium battery threads. A year ago I was convinced I would go lithium when my 2013 AGMs died. Not sure anymore. 5 + years and my AGMs are still working fine. I do have 250watts of solar with a Victron MTTP set to charge AGMs. This keeps them charged all the time. For the money involved going to Lithium does not pencil out if I can get 5 + years from my AGMs.

Years ago I had boats, young and tight on money. Needed a new propeller and talked to the local propeller repair shop. Asked about a Stainless propeller. Was told it was great if you can afford it, but aluminum was fine if not. This is how I feel about lithium at this time.

I am worried about 130 LBS for 2-6V batteries, I can cut out 100 LBS, huge when you are overloaded with a fully loaded Grandby in a Tundra!! Plus I have not had good luck with 6V golf cart batteries, they need maintenance, they leak, they offgas, and lithium has really come down in price recently

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Lithium-Iron-Phosphate-Battery/dp/B07FDHRP45/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539391577&sr=8-1&keywords=lithium+battery+170+AMP

This 170 AMPH one is about $1350, the 100 AMP is $800

 

[craig333]

I'm with Bill but my truck doesn't care about 160 lbs. In a smaller truck where weight does matter it might be worth paying extra for lithium. Not that I've looked closely but I kind of like the battle born https://battlebornbatteries.com/ batteries. Doesn't hurt that they're three hours away either

 

[PaulT]

As Craig said, check out the Battleborn LiFePo4 batteries made in Reno. Their GC2 form factor is 12v 100 aH & just above your limit. Their other 100aH may fit & is just at your limit.

They have configuration info for Victron & Trimetric solar and told me the Iota DLS with IQ4-Lifepo is acceptable. It’s important to verify that any charging system is compatible with the battery you choose.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/

I have been looking at the Battleborn also. I haven’t (yet) destroyed my factory AGM’s & thus haven’t had to pry open my wallet.

Paul

 

[ckent323]

In August 2017 I installed two 6V 200 Ah AGM batteries, 200 W of solar along with Victron Solar Controller and battery monitor on our FWC Keystone Runs perfectly.

We have converted some of our camper lights to LED but still need to convert two fluorescent fixtures to LED. Our refrigerator is a Norcold 3-way and we rarely have to run it on electric even when we are driving freeway speeds the propane usually stays lit. We use a wireless thermometer unit to check refrigerator and freezer temps from the truck cab..

We have had little need to connect the camper to any other electrical source (except when Wendie wants to use her hair dryer). I typically do not see the batteries fall below about 70% of full charge. The Victron monitor shows two cycles on the batteries in a year. I recall that one of those cycles happened early on last summer before I had the system really working well and when I pulled the batteries down to about 56% one day.

 

[ottorogers]

In August 2017 I installed two 6V 200 Ah AGM batteries, 200 W of solar along with Victron Solar Controller and battery monitor on our FWC Keystone Runs perfectly.

We have converted some of our camper lights to LED but still need to convert two fluorescent fixtures to LED. Our refrigerator is a Norcold 3-way and we rarely have to run it on electric even when we are driving freeway speeds the propane usually stays lit. We use a wireless thermometer unit to check refrigerator and freezer temps from the truck cab..

We have had little need to connect the camper to any other electrical source (except when Wendie wants to use her hair dryer). I typically do not see the batteries fall below about 70% of full charge. The Victron monitor shows two cycles on the batteries in a year. I recall that one of those cycles happened early on last summer before I had the system really working well and when I pulled the batteries down to about 56% one day.

The new FWC have 2 way fridges, that run on 12V most of the time, this means we need more power all the time, lithium makes a lot of good sense, especially when you take a fully loaded FWC into consideration, these things are very heavy. Many of us do not have (or want to own) a Ford, Chev, or Dodge truck, so we have Toyota's, with very low weight ratings, so we need to save weight as much as possible. I am willing to pay the price for lithium, for me it is worth it on many levels

 

[Vic Harder]

Otto,

Yah, the LiFePo makes a lot sense if you are trying to save weight. The 100AH you listed above saves about 100 pounds over a 200AH AGM, and gives about the same usable AH.

Also, Craig is commenting on AGM Golf Cart batteries, sounds like you had flooded lead acid golf cart batteries. Yes, they would indeed be messier.

I run a big 130L 2 way fridge in my Hawk, and with 250AH, I have never run my batteries down below 80% yet, so if I were to go LiFePo myself, a 100AH would be plenty.

 

[Zirdu]

Though I haven't bought any lithium battery for my Grandby yet, I have my eye on the LifeBlue battery. www.lifebluebattery.com. One thing I like about these Lithium batteries is that they have an internal battery monitor that you access via a smartphone app. No need to buy a battery monitor. They also publish a lot of research on their performance, which looks good. I notice that AM Solar now sells this battery. (Though you get a better deal directly from LifeBlue web site.)

They come in several convenient sizes: 100AH for $998; 125AH for $1,250; 150AH for $1,540, and the best deal - 200AH for $1,895. I have a 2016 Grandby and the 200AH model looks like it would just fit into the battery box. It is a weird size, smaller than 4d.

 

[ottorogers]

Though I haven't bought any lithium battery for my Grandby yet, I have my eye on the LifeBlue battery. www.lifebluebattery.com. One thing I like about these Lithium batteries is that they have an internal battery monitor that you access via a smartphone app. No need to buy a battery monitor. They also publish a lot of research on their performance, which looks good. I notice that AM Solar now sells this battery. (Though you get a better deal directly from LifeBlue web site.)

They come in several convenient sizes: 100AH for $998; 125AH for $1,250; 150AH for $1,540, and the best deal - 200AH for $1,895. I have a 2016 Grandby and the 200AH model looks like it would just fit into the battery box. It is a weird size, smaller than 4d.

if I bought the 200 ah from lifeblue, could i just install it where the 2 6v batteries live, and not change anything in the camper?? Charge with the solar controller that comes with the FWC Grandby???

 

[Vic Harder]

if I bought the 200 ah from lifeblue, could i just install it where the 2 6v batteries live, and not change anything in the camper?? Charge with the solar controller that comes with the FWC Grandby???

Can't answer that until we know which controller comes with the camper.

200AH LiFePo is huge in terms of AH capacity!

 

[Zirdu]

Like Vic says, it depends on your controller. I have the Victron 100/30 MMPT, which is programmable via my smartphone app. Your controller is probably programmable too, but I would check. You need to program the controller to charge at the voltage recommended by LifeBlue. As for size, you should measure your battery box to make sure it fits. Other than that, it is plug and play.

200 ah is huge for our campers, but I have a lot of need, with both a cpap for myself and a portable oxygen machine for the wife. I could probably get by with the 150 ah, but it is actually the exact same size as the 200 ah, so why not get the larger ah capacity. With a large AH capacity battery, you have to make sure you have enough solar or other means to charge it up, otherwise you are just wasting your AH battery capacity for multiple day outings.

 

[craig333]

I'm in the bigger is better camp also. Too little is a problem, too much only to your pocket book. Never know what might happen down the road. I didn't imagine having a compressor fridge when I first purchased my camper...

 

[rando]

Lithium is definitely the future, for the many reasons people have talked about above. But one caveat with installing lithium batteries, is that in a lot of ways they are still "in the future", and are definitely not mainstream yet. If you were ever to have an issue with your lithium batteries or the associated systems on the road, very few shops or service folks will be able to help you as they just aren't familiar with lithium batteries and their care and feeding.

My point is, if you are not a technically minded person who can diagnose issues themselves as they arise, lithium may not be the best choice (yet). There have been a bunch of topics lately from people who have run into electrical issues on the road, which have been fixed with help from FWC shops, WtW folks or auto-electricians. These issues would be much harder to address with a lithium system. You can't walk into an auto parts store and have them test it, and you can't easily replace one if an issues arrises. You also need to understand that while there are several vendors selling 'drop in replacements' for lead acid batteries, to really work well you need to do more than drop them in - your solar, shore power and alternator charging systems need to be correctly configured for lithium and you need to understand the differences.

I am not trying to dissuade you (LiFePO4 really is great), but want to make sure that you understand the implications of going to LiFePO4 before spending a bunch of money on it. It seems that most of the LiFePO4 early adopters (myself included) have been more on the electro-nerd end of the spectrum rather than folks who just want plug and play.

 

[ottorogers]

Lithium is definitely the future, for the many reasons people have talked about above. But one caveat with installing lithium batteries, is that in a lot of ways they are still "in the future", and are definitely not mainstream yet. If you were ever to have an issue with your lithium batteries or the associated systems on the road, very few shops or service folks will be able to help you as they just aren't familiar with lithium batteries and their care and feeding.

My point is, if you are not a technically minded person who can diagnose issues themselves as they arise, lithium may not be the best choice (yet). There have been a bunch of topics lately from people who have run into electrical issues on the road, which have been fixed with help from FWC shops, WtW folks or auto-electricians. These issues would be much harder to address with a lithium system. You can't walk into an auto parts store and have them test it, and you can't easily replace one if an issues arrises. You also need to understand that while there are several vendors selling 'drop in replacements' for lead acid batteries, to really work well you need to do more than drop them in - your solar, shore power and alternator charging systems need to be correctly configured for lithium and you need to understand the differences.

I am not trying to dissuade you (LiFePO4 really is great), but want to make sure that you understand the implications of going to LiFePO4 before spending a bunch of money on it. It seems that most of the LiFePO4 early adopters (myself included) have been more on the electro-nerd end of the spectrum rather than folks who just want plug and play.

I am no expert, but I understand basic and a bit beyond, I have always done all my own maintenance, with help from others I think I should be fine

 

[PaulT]

My Iota DLS-30 has an external IQ4 from the factory that is configured for AGM, I bought an IQ4-Lifepo so that I can just replace the AGM's with a Battleborn LiFePo4 100aH battery; unplug the existing IQ4 and plug in the IQ4-Lifepo; reprogram the charge controller for the Battleborn and all should be well.

If I am out somewhere and the Battleborn fails, I can buy an AGM battery, change which IQ4 is plugged into the IOTA and reprogram the charge controller for the AGM and be on my way carrying the failed Battleborn to be dealt with after the trip. The only downside being the few ounces required to carry a second IQ4 installed next to the first. (Plus being out a bunch of money, of course.)

My factory orignal AGMs are now into their 5th year so chances are this change is within a year or so but so far, so good.

Paul