Mounting a Wildcat FWC to a Land Rover Defender

[Bradders]

Good evening/morning folks. I am new to this forum so I thought I might introduce myself. My apologies by the way if this is not the right place for this particular topic so please feel free to direct me otherwise if needs be.
I am from a very cold Southampton in the UK and have recently purchased a Wildcat FWC with front dinette, from Germany. I think the equivalent in the States is a Fleet or similar. I have to say that I was originally going to buy it from the States as it was cheaper, but due to the strength of the dollar against the pound recently, I had to go to Germany instead.
I have had it about 4 weeks now and I’m trying to get it ready for hauling out to the countryside in the next month or so. It is going onto the rear of a Land Rover Defender 130, high capacity pickup (HCPU). However, due to the height of the truck, I need to lift the camper off the floor of the load bay by about 7” in order for the cabover to the roof. Apparently, the way to do this is to fit two lengths of 1/8” box section aluminium along the underside of the camper down both sides. The attached photo should show what I mean, not my camper, but it should explain things.



Between the box sections there will be an aluminium drawer with runners fastened accordingly. The drawer will create a great deal of storage space, but when filled, may weigh 50kgs or about a 100lbs. This is not too much of a problem when the camper is on the back of the truck, but when it is fully extended and on its stilts, the weight acting on the box section aluminium at the back will be at least double this. As such, the box section will need to be bolted with 3/8” bolts into the the floor of the camper at both the front and rear of both lengths. My problem is that I don’t really know how the floor is constructed so that I drill into the right place. The other photo shows a number of batons which run laterally along the bottom…



The obvious place to drill through the floor is at both ends of the front and rear batons, but it would be good to know where the frames is so that I can drill accordingly.

I have tried to get in touch with the service dep’t at FWC and received an email back from Brenda Cary who said that she could not help me, but would send me some photos of the floor framing. However, when these didn’t appear, I sent a very polite follow up, only to receive a very terse reply saying, “here was my reply”. I am not out to have a dig at FWC, but it would be great if someone was able to help me out with any photos or schematics they may have of the floor framing and construction, or even know someone at FWC who is able to assist.
Any help will be very gratefully received.
Thanks in anticipation
Bradders

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Hi Bradders, welcome to Wander the West!

You’re spot on for the posting area. Most folks here in the US use wood to raise the camper, but I see no issues with the aluminum box. Great idea for storage. IMO, As long as you’re just screwing through the floor pack, which is 3/4” ply, I don’t believe it matters, but if you could hit the cleats, it wouldn’t hurt. Best to be certain, but I believe that is the case.

Another FWC resource that has been very helpful is Stan Kennedy, who I believe is their sales manager. Stan is a member here, so reach out with a message. https://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/user/245-stanfourwheel/.

Did you by chance buy from Manfred? He is well respected on the forum, and might also be a good source for info.

Add some photos to your gallery, we love pictures!

 

[Vic Harder]

To clarify, there is no "Frame" in the floorpack. As WS said, it is just 3/4" plywood. If it helps, you could remove the "batons" already on the bottom as well.

 

[Bradders]

Hey you guys, thanks so much for getting back to me.

I bought the camper from the Wohnkabinencenter and dealt with a great bloke called Moritz Linden. He was so helpful and it was a real pleasure to do business with them. I think Jens is the top guy there. He was also very helpful.

So please forgive my ignorance here, but I need to clarify a couple of points. When you refer to the floor pack, am I right in assuming that you are talking about the what's in the photo below...



So that's the 1 1/2" thick batons that run laterally, the 1/4" ply above that, the aluminium edges above that and which seem to run around the perimeter of the floor, some sandwiched insulation running through the middle (I assume) which is bordered by the aluminium and then the 3/4" ply above that? And what you're saying Vic is that there is no aluminium lattice framework running between the 1/4" ply and the 3/4" floor that is walked on in the camper and which would' "house" the insulation?

And the aluminium that can be seen at the edges in the photo is really just a border to contain the insulation and which helps to separate the layers? It is obviously about 1" thick, but any ideas how wide?

I have removed the screws from the batons to see if I could peak above the 1/4" ply, but the screws were only about 1 1/2" long and only seem to hold the batons together (They seem to be two pieces). So I assume that the batons have been secured with screws from above and through the 3/4" ply. Which means I would need to remove the floor covering in the camper - no doubt glued in place

Also Wandering Sagebrush, what do you mean when you refer to the cleats?

Photos will be coming very soon of the whole set up, so stand by on that one.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Good morning, Bradders.

I’ll start with the easy questions… cleats = Batons, and floor pack is the frameless portion below the parts of the camper that go over the sides of the truck. It can also be called the tub. Both the front and rear of the campers do have aluminum frames that extend to the floor.

Most popup campers in the US don’t have insulated floors, unless it’s an owner added modification. In a fairly recent post, Stan Kennedy did write that FWC had made insulated floor models in the past. My assumption is there is no aluminum frame in your camper floor, but I can’t say with certainty that there isn’t. I believe Stan would be a good person to contact to get clarity.

Some owners choose to bolt their campers directly to the truck bed, similarly to what you want to do with the aluminum box. The only example that I’ve seen was drilled through the linoleum flooring near the corners. You may be able to remove the batons from the bottom by removing the bottom layer, then prying the top baton layer from the 1/4” panel that retains the insulation.

 

[Vic Harder]

Good morning, Bradders.

I’ll start with the easy questions… cleats = Batons, and floor pack is the frameless portion below the parts of the camper that go over the sides of the truck. It can also be called the tub. Both the front and rear of the campers do have aluminum frames that extend to the floor.

Most popup campers in the US don’t have insulated floors, unless it’s an owner added modification. In a fairly recent post, Stan Kennedy did write that FWC had made insulated floor models in the past. My assumption is there is no aluminum frame in your camper floor, but I can’t say with certainty that there isn’t. I believe Stan would be a good person to contact to get clarity.

Some owners choose to bolt their campers directly to the truck bed, similarly to what you want to do with the aluminum box. The only example that I’ve seen was drilled through the linoleum flooring near the corners. You may be able to remove the batons from the bottom by removing the bottom layer, then prying the top baton layer from the 1/4” panel that retains the insulation.

The “cleats” or batons are there to raise the camper in the bed of the truck. Most of our campers have them, in varying thicknesses, depending on what truck the camper was originally built for.

I’m not sure what that 1/4” thick layer is for.

Notice the staples in the wood above the 1” trim piece? Those staples are going into the 3/4” thick floor, I think.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Vic, I believe there is an insulation layer where the bottom cap is the 1/4” layer. Yes, the staple appears to be going into a 3/4” layer.

 

[Vic Harder]

Vic, I believe there is an insulation layer where the bottom cap is the 1/4” layer. Yes, the staple appears to be going into a 3/4” layer.

Huh, didn't know about the factory doing insulation. I added some on my Puma build, and it is more comfy for sure. So, are the batons necessary to keep the 1/4" ply and insulation attached to the 3/4" floor pack?

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Huh, didn't know about the factory doing insulation. I added some on my Puma build, and it is more comfy for sure. So, are the batons necessary to keep the 1/4" ply and insulation attached to the 3/4" floor pack?

In a recent post, Stan Kennedy mentioned that FWC had installed insulation in the past. As Bradder’s camper is for the European market, that may again be an option, or possibly an EU requirement.

Stan’s comment is post 4.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Bradders,welcome to the cult. It's interesting on my walk today I was thinking about the European
campers that FWC makes/exports. Thinking what names they give them.

Many years ago I had seen an article about the export campers spec sheet.

Nice to see one in use. Thanks for the photos.
You have become a member of a great site.
There is a load of info so don't be shy to ask questions.

Enjoy your camper. Happy camping.

Frank

 

[Bradders]

Hi Guys, I think I should probably be in bed, but hey.... Thanks again here by the way.

I think you're right about the staples going into the 3/4" ply Vic. That would definitely make sense. And thanks for the link Wandering Sagebrush, that was helpful.

I believe the Wohnkabinencenter ship over campers from CA and then re-badge them with a few changes inside, but they are basically US campers. The Fleet, I believe is called the Grizzly, and they also have the Hawk, Wildcat and Beaver, although there may be more.

Thanks for the welcome Frank and I really do feel welcome. You guys have been very helpful - thank you.

So I have no real idea about the insulation, it is just an assumption, but it would seem to be logical.

So the way I imagine it, and I may well be wrong here, is that the the 1" thick aluminium that can be seen around the outside is maybe 2" inches wide and basically forms the "rectangle" (for want of a better description) of the floor of the camper. It is welded to the frame at the front and rear. The 3/4" ply floor sits on this and is maybe screwed into it from above. There may or may not be 1" aluminium box section webs running the length and or width of the "rectangle" to provide strength and stability and so that the floor doesn't bounce when walked on. It also makes it ok to walk in the camper when its off the truck.
How does that sound?

 

[Bradders]

So here is a plan view of the sort of thing that I'm thinking...



The 3/4" ply sits on top of this and the 1/4" ply sits below it. The batons sit under the 1/4" ply and are secured with screws through the aluminium frame from above. Unless they are just glued onto the 1/4" ply, although I saw no evidence of glue around the edges.

If that is right, then all I need to do is drill a 3/8" hole about 4" in from the front and rear at each corner and bolt the box section aluminium to that. I just need to find out for sure how the actual floor is made up without wrecking everything, and so I don't cock it up when I put the drill through!

So in all the years that FWC have been building campers, they must have fitted one to a Land Rover Defender at some time. I think I need to chat to Stan.

Thanks guys - I'll get back to you tomorrow... in the morning... when I wake up. You know what I mean

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Check your mailbox, I sent another link.

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

You might want to check out GrizzlyNbear Overland on YouTube. They’ve been traveling the world in a 130 with an FWC in the tray with storage underneath.

 

[Bradders]

You might want to check out GrizzlyNbear Overland on YouTube. They’ve been traveling the world in a 130 with an FWC in the tray with storage underneath.

 

[Bradders]

Hi Mighty Dodge, thanks for that.
I have been following G&B for over a year now and they are the source of my inspiration. I have been in touch with Leigh and he has answered a couple of questions for me, but can’t help me with where to drill. Not only that, their rig is on a container ship heading to South Africa at the mo. They are brilliant and such a lovely couple.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Curiosity has the the cat…. Any news/progress?

 

[Bradders]

Hi folks, well I’m pleased and very relieved to say that I’ve just spoken on the phone to Stan at FWC - what an incredibly helpful and thoroughly nice chap. He has confirmed how the floor pack is constructed, which was pretty much what I thought after help from you guys and looking at numerous videos. Stan also sent me some photos of floors and frames which was helpful.

So I’ve decided to screw twenty four, 3” screws (12 down each side) through the top of the aluminium box section supports I’m using, through the ends of each of the batons, through the insulation and into the 3/4” ply floor (being very careful not to screw right through the floor, obviously). I will also use polyurethane glue where the aluminium contacts the batons.

When the camper is off the truck, I’ll place a couple of Minotaur trestles under the floor at the front and back which will take most of the weight of the camper. I’ll also use the stilts to provide some lateral stability, but they won’t be taking all the weight.

I know that I’m now repeating myself here from page 1, but when it’s not on the truck and there are no trestles underneath, the weight acting on the aluminium supports from a very full sliding drawer could be about 220 lbs. When the drawer is shut, this weight is obviously distributed evenly along the entire length of both supports, which in no way is a problem.

When the drawer is fully extended however, it’s a different story, as then the entire weight of the drawer (the bending moment if you like) will be acting around the rearmost screws holding the drawer sliders onto the aluminium supports. This will in turn be transferred to the screws in the rearmost batons. When fully extended the weight of the drawer will probably be doubled too- and that’s a lot of weight.

Anyway, I’m going to order the box section aluminium tomorrow and make a start when it arrives. I’ll take lots of photos and keep you all updated as I go along.

 

[Your Mileage May Vary]

Welcome Bradders

I'm interested in your project and have subscribed to this topic.

Would you mind sharing the specs on the aluminum you have chosen. I am assuming 6061. What wall thickness have you chosen?

I ask as I have a similar project coming up. I will be moving my slide-in camper to a new truck. The dimensions of the camper require me to build a 5" platform for it to clear the cargo walls.

 

[Bradders]

Hi there Mileage, more than happy to help you out here.
To be honest, I haven’t even thought about what spec aluminium I was going to use as I’ve only really just worked out my plan and how I’m going to fix the box section to the underside, bearing in mind the weight that may be in the drawer when it’s fully extended.
Now that you’ve mentioned 6061 aluminium, I’ve looked up the different types and there is so many different varieties that I think I need to spend a day looking at all of then and deciding which one is the best; as you say 6061 may well be it.
in terms of your plans what are you thinking? If you use the box section aluminium, then it would be a waste not to utilise the space in between them.



Here are a couple of photos to help you in the first instance.
With regards to the drawer, I’m planning to get a fabricator to bend the long sides and I will then weld in both ends myself.
Depending on your circumstances, you may also have space along the sides which can be seen in the photo below.



Once again I will probably get a fabricator to do the long bends for me and weld in any small pieces. On the other hand, and depending on the cost, I may get them to fabricate all of it.
it would be good to know what you’re planning. If you are thinking of similar things, look up Grizzly’nBear Overland on You Tube. Their videos have a wealth of information.
My apologies for the poor quality of the photos, but the system won’t let me upload anything too big. If you want to PM me with your email address, and /or mobile phone number, I can WhatsApp some better quality photos to you.