moving headliner to install Artificial Rain Gutters

[Vic Harder]

Looking to install these on my Hawk
https://www.backcountryracks.com/yakima-wide-body-raingutter-bracket/

I'm imagining they need to into something solid, like the 1" alum bar around the circumference of the roof. That is hidden by the roof liner. How does one remove enough of that to see the roof structure? And without mangling the headliner?

Vic

 

[DanoT]

I have used those brackets before on a 5th wheel trailer for attaching a ski box vertically to a trailer wall. I just bolted right thru the wall using big washers on the inside wall.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Vic, they come with a flat plate that spans the bolts on the inside, but you will need to bolt through something solid. There are a couple of folks who have DIYd headliners, so maybe they will have a tip on that. I’ve only installed them on truck canopies and utility trailers. Failing getting feedback on that, I’d call one of the factory guys.

 

[DavidGraves]

Hi Vic

Did you determine you can get towers tall enough to clear your solar?

David Graves

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Hi Vic

Did you determine you can get towers tall enough to clear your solar?

David Graves

There are extensions for the towers.

 

[Old Crow]

Food for thought...

Looks like a couple of guys did it in this Thule Roof Rack Gutters thread. I see no mention of backing plates or the headliner so I'm guessing they used longer screws to get through both sides of the aluminum bar to stiffen things up and that seemed good enough. And I see Beach added 5200 adhesive.

I see moondawg hasn't been on lately so you might try PMing him for his current thoughts on the subject. Same with Beach if he doesn't happen upon this thread.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Hmmmmm, I see the screws holes that attach the roof trim were repurposed for mounting the gutter clips. That gives me nervous twitch. It might be fine, but personally... I wouldn’t do it. A big canoe, can generate a lot force in the wind stream, not to mention weight. My double kayak is over 20’ and 100 pounds.

 

[DavidGraves]

Yep.....hmmmmmmmmmmm .

DG

 

[PokyBro]

Hey Vic,

I'm attaching a photo from when I did my roof rebuild for clarity. I'm with WS about concern if two screws through the 1" square tubing on each side, (if you couldn't use bolts and backing plate) would be sufficiently strong for either weight as downward stress, or more importantly, for upward lift, of things you might haul on the racks, like a canoe. Also the wide body artificial rain gutter mount with four holes might not be feasible with one inch tubing, as the holes might be too wide, even though it would then give you four screws per side, which does seem stronger. The side tube along the perimeter of the roof is not all that rigid either, having seen the flex in it when everything is uncovered and bare. I have a set of those same Yakima gutter mounts and the regular two hole artificial gutters, but chose not to attempt it for fear it might pull out when loaded.

The Yakima tracks FWC installs, have screws about every 5-6 inches, and might have better strength/ stability with accompanying control towers, and I know some have utilized them for hauling canoes and kayaks with success. I might just be worrying about bad possibilities too much, and your thought to use gutter mounts might be fine, I don't know.

Your other question about using a backing plate, with bolts and nuts, on the other side of the one inch tube would certainly be stronger, but the only way I could see doing that would be to cut a slot on the headliner to allow you to get a plate and nuts in there. The headliner is tucked up and around the outer tube, and the outside trim ring is screwed down so as not to let you pull the headliner down to work on things. If I recall correctly, Sqatch used mounts on top, and used a backing plate on the inside of the roof, with mounting bolts coming through the roof struts and through the headliner with a backing plate and nut exposed on the ceiling.

Anyhow, sorry for the long response, just thinking out loud.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I'm still trying to figure something out myself.

Poky

 

[shellback]

Rebuilding my 79 Grandby, my thoughts are the roof structure is pretty flimsy. Not sure what you want to carry on your roof rack. Something like a canoe or kayak would concern me about traveling at highway speeds. If it's something heavy you plan to carry, I assume you wouldn't be lifting the roof with it on it. Would it be possible to mount the brackets lower and on the top frame of the camper body? Not sure how easy it would be to take the cross bars off after the cargo is removed, so you can raise the roof.

 

[Vic Harder]

Hey Vic,

I'm attaching a photo from when I did my roof rebuild for clarity. I'm with WS about concern if two screws through the 1" square tubing on each side, (if you couldn't use bolts and backing plate) would be sufficiently strong for either weight as downward stress, or more importantly, for upward lift, of things you might haul on the racks, like a canoe. Also the wide body artificial rain gutter mount with four holes might not be feasible with one inch tubing, as the holes might be too wide, even though it would then give you four screws per side, which does seem stronger. The side tube along the perimeter of the roof is not all that rigid either, having seen the flex in it when everything is uncovered and bare. I have a set of those same Yakima gutter mounts and the regular two hole artificial gutters, but chose not to attempt it for fear it might pull out when loaded.



The Yakima tracks FWC installs, have screws about every 5-6 inches, and might have better strength/ stability with accompanying control towers, and I know some have utilized them for hauling canoes and kayaks with success. I might just be worrying about bad possibilities too much, and your thought to use gutter mounts might be fine, I don't know.

Your other question about using a backing plate, with bolts and nuts, on the other side of the one inch tube would certainly be stronger, but the only way I could see doing that would be to cut a slot on the headliner to allow you to get a plate and nuts in there. The headliner is tucked up and around the outer tube, and the outside trim ring is screwed down so as not to let you pull the headliner down to work on things. If I recall correctly, Sqatch used mounts on top, and used a backing plate on the inside of the roof, with mounting bolts coming through the roof struts and through the headliner with a backing plate and nut exposed on the ceiling.

Anyhow, sorry for the long response, just thinking out loud.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I'm still trying to figure something out myself.

Poky

Thanks for thinking out loud Poky. Sucks that the headliner is kind of "permanent", but I really appreciate your picture and description that makes that very clear.

I like Squatch's approach to have a good backing plate. Gotta think on this some more!

 

[Vic Harder]

Rebuilding my 79 Grandby, my thoughts are the roof structure is pretty flimsy. Not sure what you want to carry on your roof rack. Something like a canoe or kayak would concern me about traveling at highway speeds. If it's something heavy you plan to carry, I assume you wouldn't be lifting the roof with it on it. Would it be possible to mount the brackets lower and on the top frame of the camper body? Not sure how easy it would be to take the cross bars off after the cargo is removed, so you can raise the roof.

This is good thinking too. Re: flimsy - In an earlier post, I wondered about canoe/kayak flying off under wind loading, but so far that doesn't seem to have happened to anyone using the factory Yakima rack mounts.

Re: heavy - not really. My cedar strip canoe is less than 50#. I could probably still lift the roof with that up there. BUT, it would be easy (and very secure) to put the canoe up with just some foam blocks to clear the vent and solar panel, and secure it using the jack mounts as anchors. The downside is I can't lift the roof without releasing the tension on the the straps and/or removing the canoe.

I'm leaning away from the rain gutter idea though, as there just isn't a good way to anchor it without wrecking the headliner.

 

[ckent323]

I have two Pygmy kit stitch and glue wooden kayaks that I carry on the roof of my FWC Keystone from time to time (but not since I added the two solar panels). I have full length Yakima tracks and crossbars with Mako pads and Hully Rollers. I bought a showboat 66 loader but have not yet used it.

The kayaks weigh about 35 - 40 pounds each. I use a crank up speaker stand to raise and lower the roof when the Kayaks are on. I recently replaced my 40 pound front lift struts with 60 pound lift struts and I am much happier with them.

 

[DavidGraves]

Hi Vic

I think you are heading toward the best solution if you just use the foam blocks.......as I mentioned earlier the weight of the Yakima crossbars is significant....add your canoe weight and the gutter style brackets would carry quite a load.! note the two ( or four) 1/4" machine screws they employ to mount the bracket.

I think the Yakima tracks not only land on a roof "rafter" but they serve to distribute the load over the roof longitudinally.

If you are like us your canoe will not need a permanent home up on your camper.

Good luck with the boating.

David Graves