wuck
Senior Member
I see from your blog we all like to wander around Carson Pass area, it's a great spot to get away from the skiing/boarding masses (Don't tell anybody!)ski3pin said:
Say Hi to Marty when you pick up the bedboard for Mr. Spider!
Say Hi to Marty when you pick up the bedboard for Mr. Spider!
wuck
Senior Member
Thanks Vic.Vic Harder said:
There's a 1x4 wooden board inserted into the large C-Channel that forms the main structure of the cabover, I refer to that as the "sideboard". In the bed area, the side paneling is screwed to the c-channel at the top, and stapled to the sideboard at the bottom. I used a circular trim saw with the depth carefully set to removed an inch or so from the bottom of this board. This gives you more room to work with removing the old board and installing the new.
Here's the original left side, after cutting:
My new sideboard (Poplar) installed on the right side:
It seems "Bedboard" is the official term used at ATC, "Sideboard" I made up to describe the other wooden piece up there.
A last thought, as I slung the skid-guard around prior to installation I thought "This seems kinda heavy". I was right, the new skid-guard weighs in at 60 lbs, the old lumber-core bedboard was just over 40.
That helps Wuck! So, I take it you put in new "sideboards" as well, since you cut them up. I imagine some trepidation at setting the depth of that blade, lest you go through the siding too! I'm also wondering how you get so deep into the corners with a circular saw?
I bet that skidguard won't rot out. And is worth the extra 20#.
I bet that skidguard won't rot out. And is worth the extra 20#.
wuck
Senior Member
I used a Milwaukee trim saw, a bit smaller than your average skilsaw, but the last couple of inches into the corner I had to freehand cut. Yeah, you really don't want to be slicing into that c-channel!Vic Harder said:
The original sideboards were cut from the same lumber core ply as the bedboard. Once the trim is removed from the bedboard, the exposed edge can be used to set the cut depth on the saw. The "C" is actually more of a "G" channel so the saw was riding on aluminum over the sideboard, that cut wasn't deep enough. I reset the depth with another 1/16" or so made a second pass, then just snapped the piece out with a wonderbar.
I really didn't want to put lumber core back in there, but I couldn't find any locally anyway. My backup plan was to use regular plywood skinned with formica. The probably would have weighed just as much, if not more than the skid guard. I think the 20# are worth it, time will tell.
wuck
Senior Member
Well, the summer flew by, we had some plans other than campering, so the Hawk got put on simmer for a while. But, we did sign up for the FWC owner rally down in San Clemente, so as Fall came around I reassembled the remaining items to take a trip. We're just back now, figured it is a good time to get caught up on my rebuilding adventures . . .
Going back to last winter, I had to decide what to do about my jack brackets before installing the new aluminum skin. They were a mess, with broken off bolts, also variety of different length and diameters. Sometimes there were two or even three broken bolts in the same hole. Here's a sample from the right rear corner.
The previous owner told me of problems backing his extra fat-tired Ram truck under the camper, he made up some extension plates added five inches of extension and lift. I feel both these might have led to an accident or two, stressing the brackets and breaking bolts.
The broken bolts were removed with vise grips or a dremel tool and screwdriver. Some were buried too deep, I couldn't get to them without destroying the corner tube, so they remained. At this point, nearly all the remainng bolts were loose enough I had to change something.
The first solution I thought of was replacing the corner tubes, which would probably involve gutting the camper first. While this would bring my camper back to good as new as far as the jack brackets, I wanted something thick enough to get more thread engagement. Reluctant, I thought of other options. Some kind of insert, aluminum or wood, coming in from the bottom seemed promising, but the remaining broken bolts were an issue. Eventually, I thought about rivnuts, or threaded inserts. These are made to be installed blindly, ie access from only one side. They are available in a few different materials - aluminum, stainless, zinc-plated steel. This seemed to be the ticket. I found a tool for a reasonable price, the Astro-Pneumatic # 1442 and picked up a couple of pieces of aluminum tube to play with. On my test tube, I installed a couple rivnuts alongside a standard jack bracket bolt. I then started prying on both with a wonder bar, the standard bolt was quickly stripped and pulled out. I couldn't budge the bolt in a rivnut, although the aluminum tube was deformed. So, one downside, they might be too strong. Any further "accidents" might really harm the camper frame!
I chose 1/4-20 zinc-plated steel rivnuts, and 1/4" bolts to mount the jacks. Now, to put 48 rivnuts in by hand took a while. The existing holes were too small for the most part, for maximum insert strength the holes should be round and tight. I used a tapered reamer to form a nice round hole - drill bits will leave a hole slightly triangular, especially with a hand held drill/bit. The long reamer needed deep clearance, in most cases this was already in place as at least 1.5 inch length screws had been used. I had to drill through both sides of the tube in someplaces. Another problem was the less than precise location of the inserts with respect to the brackets. I really just had to go with the results, which meant modifying the brackets to some extent. In the end, I used a milling machine to slightly widen and lengthen the bolt slots in the brackets.
Going back to last winter, I had to decide what to do about my jack brackets before installing the new aluminum skin. They were a mess, with broken off bolts, also variety of different length and diameters. Sometimes there were two or even three broken bolts in the same hole. Here's a sample from the right rear corner.
The previous owner told me of problems backing his extra fat-tired Ram truck under the camper, he made up some extension plates added five inches of extension and lift. I feel both these might have led to an accident or two, stressing the brackets and breaking bolts.
The broken bolts were removed with vise grips or a dremel tool and screwdriver. Some were buried too deep, I couldn't get to them without destroying the corner tube, so they remained. At this point, nearly all the remainng bolts were loose enough I had to change something.
The first solution I thought of was replacing the corner tubes, which would probably involve gutting the camper first. While this would bring my camper back to good as new as far as the jack brackets, I wanted something thick enough to get more thread engagement. Reluctant, I thought of other options. Some kind of insert, aluminum or wood, coming in from the bottom seemed promising, but the remaining broken bolts were an issue. Eventually, I thought about rivnuts, or threaded inserts. These are made to be installed blindly, ie access from only one side. They are available in a few different materials - aluminum, stainless, zinc-plated steel. This seemed to be the ticket. I found a tool for a reasonable price, the Astro-Pneumatic # 1442 and picked up a couple of pieces of aluminum tube to play with. On my test tube, I installed a couple rivnuts alongside a standard jack bracket bolt. I then started prying on both with a wonder bar, the standard bolt was quickly stripped and pulled out. I couldn't budge the bolt in a rivnut, although the aluminum tube was deformed. So, one downside, they might be too strong. Any further "accidents" might really harm the camper frame!
I chose 1/4-20 zinc-plated steel rivnuts, and 1/4" bolts to mount the jacks. Now, to put 48 rivnuts in by hand took a while. The existing holes were too small for the most part, for maximum insert strength the holes should be round and tight. I used a tapered reamer to form a nice round hole - drill bits will leave a hole slightly triangular, especially with a hand held drill/bit. The long reamer needed deep clearance, in most cases this was already in place as at least 1.5 inch length screws had been used. I had to drill through both sides of the tube in someplaces. Another problem was the less than precise location of the inserts with respect to the brackets. I really just had to go with the results, which meant modifying the brackets to some extent. In the end, I used a milling machine to slightly widen and lengthen the bolt slots in the brackets.
hebegebe
Senior Member
I luv Rivnuts! In mid 90's I built a race van and installed all the panel sheets with them and it was really stout and durable, It was a newer product then glad to see the price came way down Good job
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PokyBro
Senior Member
Very good idea, wuck, for solving the problem without any cutting or welding, great job. They sound and look pretty solid, so that being done, I'm sure getting it put back together will be great, with worries of stability behind you.
Thanks for sharing, and hope to see more pics of the full repair finished, and back together.
Poky
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Thanks for sharing, and hope to see more pics of the full repair finished, and back together.
Poky
Sent from my iPad using Wander The West
Wow- I just read the entire thread. I'm very impressed with the volume of work that you've done and you seem like you are enjoying the process. I love cabinetry work but electrical and mechanicals are way beyond my comfort level. Congratulations on your doggedness and determination!! Happy camping !!
wuck
Senior Member
Thanks hebe, I found a few more uses for rivnuts on the Hawk . . Stay Tunedhebegebe said:
Ah, from a master of bringing old campers back to lifePokyBro said:
Thank You!Thanks for the kind words Ronin. Yes, I do enjoy fixing just about anything, and I hope some of this helps others out. We just spent 10 days in SoCal from the coast to the Sierras, Happy Campers we are!Ronin said:
wuck
Senior Member
New Skin!
Well, almost, just a couple of more things to take care of . . .
First up was the Fiamma mounting. With water stains on the back of the inside panel just above the window, I wanted to track down the source. Since it was still raining here in Sonoma County, I got to do it "Naturally" rather than with a hose. I only needed to sit inside the camper during a downpour! I had a couple of spots where water could be seen dripping down between the framing and outside skin. I couldn't tell exactly the source, so I marked the spots for later investigation. On removal of the awning - I found what I thought to be the culprit. My awning was hung from a long aluminum rail screwed into the side, and then the bottom of the case fastened with 5 sets of #8 screws and an adjacent large pop rivet. The rail has the usual weatherstrip under it, and was screwed into the c-channel top framing member with dozens of #8 screws. The weatherstrip had failed allowing water to seep under and on down to the window. On its way down, some flowed across the screw/rivet pairs below. These lower screw/rivet combos had been placed rather haphazardly, the seam between to siding sheets had been punctured in several spot. These spots coincided with my inside leaks.
Awning Off
Note the holes in the seam!
Next, the entire front of the awning was dangling in space. This led to the casing twisting when the awning was put away, which of course it is almost all the time. Finally, the mounting didn't allow for any clearance between the case and the trim strip around the bottom of the cabover, which led to further bending of the case.
Problem area with trim
Twisted Case!
Since I had rivnuts, I used them again First I cleaned up the awning case, and remounted it on the rail before installing the siding. This way I could see all the framing to choose five even mount points across the length of the case. I picked a low spot in the case so as to not interfere with the stowed awning, I drilled holes through the case into the frame in four spots. The fifth spot was actually below the cabover, where I planned a bracket to support the front of the case.
The four holes in the frame were fitted with rivnuts, then a spacer milled to prevent the mounted awning from smashing the "Mesa" on the siding down, giving some of the space required to clear the front trim. Button head screws were used to secure the awning, allowing a bit more clearance from the wound up awning. A new gray siding piece was sourced from FWC, which almost matched the old one but a bit different (don't tell anybody!).
Machining
Mounting Spacer 
Placement is good!
More Chips!
And a bracket is born 
With the new awning mounts in place I could begin siding installation . . .
Well, almost, just a couple of more things to take care of . . .
First up was the Fiamma mounting. With water stains on the back of the inside panel just above the window, I wanted to track down the source. Since it was still raining here in Sonoma County, I got to do it "Naturally" rather than with a hose. I only needed to sit inside the camper during a downpour! I had a couple of spots where water could be seen dripping down between the framing and outside skin. I couldn't tell exactly the source, so I marked the spots for later investigation. On removal of the awning - I found what I thought to be the culprit. My awning was hung from a long aluminum rail screwed into the side, and then the bottom of the case fastened with 5 sets of #8 screws and an adjacent large pop rivet. The rail has the usual weatherstrip under it, and was screwed into the c-channel top framing member with dozens of #8 screws. The weatherstrip had failed allowing water to seep under and on down to the window. On its way down, some flowed across the screw/rivet pairs below. These lower screw/rivet combos had been placed rather haphazardly, the seam between to siding sheets had been punctured in several spot. These spots coincided with my inside leaks.
Awning Off
Note the holes in the seam!Next, the entire front of the awning was dangling in space. This led to the casing twisting when the awning was put away, which of course it is almost all the time. Finally, the mounting didn't allow for any clearance between the case and the trim strip around the bottom of the cabover, which led to further bending of the case.
Problem area with trim
Twisted Case!Since I had rivnuts, I used them again
First I cleaned up the awning case, and remounted it on the rail before installing the siding. This way I could see all the framing to choose five even mount points across the length of the case. I picked a low spot in the case so as to not interfere with the stowed awning, I drilled holes through the case into the frame in four spots. The fifth spot was actually below the cabover, where I planned a bracket to support the front of the case.The four holes in the frame were fitted with rivnuts, then a spacer milled to prevent the mounted awning from smashing the "Mesa" on the siding down, giving some of the space required to clear the front trim. Button head screws were used to secure the awning, allowing a bit more clearance from the wound up awning. A new gray siding piece was sourced from FWC, which almost matched the old one but a bit different (don't tell anybody!).
Machining
Mounting Spacer Placement is good!
More Chips!
And a bracket is born With the new awning mounts in place I could begin siding installation . . .
Excellent work, wuck, and great problem solving!
wuck
Senior Member
Thank You Sir!ski3pin said:
wuck
Senior Member
I found some better pictures of the original awning mount to share before wrapping up the new mounting.
Here are those screw/rivet pairs holding the awning on the camper, and the upper rail.
And some of the damage caused by those screws/rivets:
Somehow, all that water and gunk were getting past the railing and washing over the mounting rivets, some ending up inside the wall. Remember, the gray trim strip is a separate piece, so there are two seams compromised here.
And here the bend in the casing as it passes over the trim can be seen
There was a similar bend at the rear of the casing.
Here are those screw/rivet pairs holding the awning on the camper, and the upper rail.
And some of the damage caused by those screws/rivets:
Somehow, all that water and gunk were getting past the railing and washing over the mounting rivets, some ending up inside the wall. Remember, the gray trim strip is a separate piece, so there are two seams compromised here.
And here the bend in the casing as it passes over the trim can be seen
There was a similar bend at the rear of the casing.
wuck
Senior Member
In order to space the awning away from the trim and seams, I first installed spacers under the siding on top of the mounting rivnuts.
Now we'll skip ahead a few weeks, after the new aluminum skin (siding) and trim were applied. I drilled a small pilot hole through from the inside using the rivnuts for location. Moving outside, the larger clearance hole was cut, the unthreaded portion of the rivnut perfectly centering the drill bit once it began cutting into the skin. I used an additional set of plastic spacers between the awning and siding to keep it from crushing the seams or the trim.
Along with a bracket to add support out front where the Fiamma engineers clearly intended
I cleaned up the awning, evicting the tenants and painted the UV damaged end caps.
Old mounting holes alongside the new button head screw inside the casing.
Resulting in this!
Now we'll skip ahead a few weeks, after the new aluminum skin (siding) and trim were applied. I drilled a small pilot hole through from the inside using the rivnuts for location. Moving outside, the larger clearance hole was cut, the unthreaded portion of the rivnut perfectly centering the drill bit once it began cutting into the skin. I used an additional set of plastic spacers between the awning and siding to keep it from crushing the seams or the trim.
Along with a bracket to add support out front where the Fiamma engineers clearly intended
I cleaned up the awning, evicting the tenants and painted the UV damaged end caps.
Old mounting holes alongside the new button head screw inside the casing.
Resulting in this!
longhorn1
Ouch, that stings!
Nice work.
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PokyBro
Senior Member
Very fine workmanship indeed, wuck, impressive! And you have some great tools to it with. Boys can never have too many tools, right? Thanks for sharing!
Poky
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Poky
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Offgrid4Two
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2018
- Messages
- 9
I have the same year model Hawk with the fridge at the front. These were called X models and i believe there were less than 20 of this particular model built. Stan Kennedy might know more but, i do know the numbers were low.
wuck
Senior Member
I have talked to Stan Kennedy a time or two, he told me there were production issues involved with that layout but didn't elaborate.
Thanks for the comments guys, happy I could help out with the bedboard, I had the best help from Marty at ATC for mine.
Thanks for the comments guys, happy I could help out with the bedboard, I had the best help from Marty at ATC for mine.
hebegebe
Senior Member
Nice solution! I have been trying to come up with a hanging cleat idea so I could quickly remove the awning when not needed or move to the drivers side. I have an ‘04 X model it seems, I didn’t know it was rare as hens teeth!wuck said:
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