My 2013 Hawk Solar Upgrade

[Spitfire]

Been meaning to post this for a few weeks but wanted to get some good real world data before reporting. After reading about some of the other upgrades going on out there I decided to do mine as well. I started with the system that originally came with my 2013 Hawk: 95 watt panel and a Morningstar SS-10L-12V controller. Decided to add two Renogy 100 watt bendable panels and update the controller as required. I also wanted to add a Trimetric 2030 RV battery monitor. I originally was going to go for a Morningstar SS-20L-12V controller but after doing a little research found that the Trimetric SC 2030 controller would be perfect as when connected to the 2030 RV monitor gives you lots of information plus many battery charging options.

Started by gluing down the 2 Renogy panels using 3M Marine adhesive and weighing them down with patio stones for a couple days. Used some MC4 adapter cable adapters to tie the panels together and used the stock SAE roof connector and jack to plug into the existing camper wiring. I used some 3M doubleback tape and some Secure TM wire clamps to secure the wiring. Here's some pictures of the roof :

The installation of the Trimetric controller and battery monitor went well but took a little time. Here's some pictures:

I finally got a chance to see what it could do last week as I was up at the Sunrise area of Mount Rainier about noon last week. It was perfectly clear and I was getting a high of about 14.6 amps of solar charging on the Trimetric. Not bad. I did also had another problem as I discovered that my power connector on my truck bed was corroded and shorted out due to all the moisture around here. Had to change that out as well. Good project for me and I thank all the others who gave out all the info on their solar system installations before me as It made my project go so much smoother.

 

[DrJ]

Excellent work. I love your setup!

I think it should serve you well.

 

[BlueRidge]

Spitfire,

Can you recommend a solar installer in WA or OR that installs Bogart Engineering parts? I'm reading the SC2030 and 2030RV battery monitor work well together.

Thanks

 

[Spitfire]

Spitfire,

Can you recommend a solar installer in WA or OR that installs Bogart Engineering parts? I'm reading the SC2030 and 2030RV battery monitor work well together.

Thanks

Sorry, I don't.

 

[Spitfire]

It's interesting to see how the battery charges and discharges using the Trimetric. Discharging is basically linear but charging is not . You can really see the charging difference when the batteries are discharged and when it's getting close to 100%. It can take a while to get that last few percent. It's also interesting to see the amps used for each device. As expected the refrigerator (Dometic CR-1110) pulls the most amps. I was pleasantly surprised that my wife's CPAP didn't pull nearly as much as I though it would going by the RESMED battery use documentation.

As I discovered before, solar doesn't work too well in the shade so even adding all this extra solar won't solve all my charging problems but when I do get some good sun, I'll have the extra charging capability.

 

[Advmoto18]

Very nice installation.

Besides shadows (simply covering one cell is significnat degradaton), angle off the sun's axis degrades charging. But, having 3 panels as you do must really help!

 

[cdbrow1]

Been meaning to post this for a few weeks but wanted to get some good real world data before reporting. After reading about some of the other upgrades going on out there I decided to do mine as well. I started with the system that originally came with my 2013 Hawk: 95 watt panel and a Morningstar SS-10L-12V controller. Decided to add two Renogy 100 watt bendable panels and update the controller as required. I also wanted to add a Trimetric 2030 RV battery monitor. I originally was going to go for a Morningstar SS-20L-12V controller but after doing a little research found that the Trimetric SC 2030 controller would be perfect as when connected to the 2030 RV monitor gives you lots of information plus many battery charging options.

Started by gluing down the 2 Renogy panels using 3M Marine adhesive and weighing them down with patio stones for a couple days. Used some MC4 adapter cable adapters to tie the panels together and used the stock SAE roof connector and jack to plug into the existing camper wiring. I used some 3M doubleback tape and some Secure TM wire clamps to secure the wiring. Here's some pictures of the roof :
0

Clean looking setup.

Question on gluing the panels down. I recently got one of the Renogy 100 w panels at a price too good to pass up and if the temperature ever drops below a zillion degrees I want to attach it to my rig (2015 Hawk with Rails) using the 3M marine adhesive. Seems like some people recommend securing only the edges of the panel so the roof can "flex" under the panel - while other say glue the entire panel down. Which route did you follow and are you happy with the results?

Thanks

CB.

 

[PaulT]

Can you recommend a solar installer in WA or OR that installs Bogart Engineering parts? I'm reading the SC2030 and 2030RV battery monitor work well together.

One in each state listed on Bogart Engineering site.
http://www.bogartengineering.com/content/where-buy#west

Paul

 

[Spitfire]

Clean looking setup.

Question on gluing the panels down. I recently got one of the Renogy 100 w panels at a price too good to pass up and if the temperature ever drops below a zillion degrees I want to attach it to my rig (2015 Hawk with Rails) using the 3M marine adhesive. Seems like some people recommend securing only the edges of the panel so the roof can "flex" under the panel - while other say glue the entire panel down. Which route did you follow and are you happy with the results?

Thanks

CB.

I basically glued the whole panel down using the entire tube of adhesive. Happy so far.

 

[rustytinbender]

To answer Spitfires question, I recently fastened 2 panels to the roof with silicone caulk and double face tape (to hold things until the silicone dries), a few spots in the middle and full bead on the perimeter. I am a sheet metal worker and this is the method we use to fasten quite a few heavy items on walls of clean rooms where you can't use fasteners. In hindsight I probably used too much and will regret it when I have to remove them, it doesn't take as much as you think. Hope this info helps

 

[Advmoto18]

I have been reaching out to an EE professor (PhD) teaching EE in solar applications at NCSU.

I think your setup is great and difficult to draw any comclusions simply from a picture. While I am not suggestiing you make any modifications, just offering thoughts for future consideration. A few thoughts come to mind based on the above picture:

1. In a mutli-battery bank setup for storage of solar acquired energy, it is critical that ALL cables from the controller to the battery bank or from any intermediate terminals (shunt) be the same length. If cables are of different length, battery 1 (for discussion) will receive a higher bulk charge then battery 2 because the controller will switch to float mode (based on sensing battery 1 charge) leaving leaving battery 2 perhaps not fully charged.

2. Crimps. Cable to clamp crimps are perhaps the most overlooked aspect of the install leading to diminshed charging. A double crimp using a heavy duty crimper is the only way to go. HD crimpers are very expensive. It is more cost effective to source your cables and clamps and request a licensed electrician to apply the double crimps. After a double crimp has been applied, give the connection your best tug. There should be no play or movment between the connections.

While the above two items may seem insignificant, both can have a dramatic impact on the rate and ability of the controller to charge and maintain your battery bank.

3. Small white wire connected to battery post. That appears to be your battery temp sensor. Most maufacturers recommend that the sensor be placed (taped) to the side of the battery. The lead post will actually be hotter actual battery temp, tricking the controller. One manufacturer tech rep even mentioned he had tried unsuccessfully to get his company to stop putting terminal connectors on the end of the battery temp since it in nearly all cases the connector led the consumer installer to place such on the battery post. Studies have concluded it is best to tape the sensor to the side of the battery which is in close proximity to a neighboring battery. This will provide a more accurate reading of battery temp for controller during the charging purposes.

Nice job! I'm envious of your setup!

 

[Happyjax]

Good info, thanks!

 

[Spitfire]

Thanks for the comments. I'm a EE myself so I'm aware of the issues you bring up. The main thing for me going in was to use as much of the existing wiring as possible so if it wasn't an optimized installation that was okay. If I was designing and installing a system from scratch I would definitely use equal length and proper sized wiring as required. Good info on the temp sensor. So far the system seems to be working well but I'm starting to worry about the reliability of the bendable solar panels as several people here have had failures.

 

[Advmoto18]

So far the system seems to be working well but I'm starting to worry about the reliability of the bendable solar panels as several people here have had failures.

DoD, through DARPA, has spent a king's ransom of our tax dollars on flexible solar panels for tactical/down range environments. So far, with very limited success.

Above technology didn't work so well or meet the specifications.

So, rigid panels were installed to supplement the flex panels which are barely visible on the fly.

 

[Bill D]

That top DoD tent setup with the solar is awesome.
I'd love to tour the inside. Military stuff can be so cool.

 

[BlueMtn]

I am hoping that some of you experienced in solar panel installation on FWC can give me some advice. I am planning on using a portable solar panel, but want to hook up both the roof and back wires so it would be easy to add permanent panels later if I want--as in Spitfire's installation.

I have a 2015 Hawk with the side dinette configuration--no solar panels, but it is "wired for solar panels". But what I found when I asked FWC about buying panels is that having "wired for solar" means only that there are plugs on the roof and back with wires from those into the camper, but they are not connected to a solar controller or to the batteries. The batteries are in the front right side under the front seat of the dinette. There is a wire in the battery compartment that I thought was from the solar panels but Shaw at FWC said that it was not, it was the wire that hooks to the batteries once you add a controller and attach the solar input wires to it. Those two pairs of wires are labeled "roof solar" and "back solar" and are behind one of the cabinet panels near the battery monitor and hot water switch (left front side panel of the camper). I have to take apart the cabinets to find the two wires and install a controller. He said he would send pictures of the wiring setup, but has not so far.

I have looked in all the areas that I can get easy access to but cannot find the two pair of in wires or where the one pair of wires in the battery compartment goes. I would like to know where/what I am looking for before I start dismantling my brand new camper! I need some help from those more experienced in FWC campers.

My questions that I hope someone can answer are:

1. Does anyone know exactly where the wires from the solar input plugs end up inside a Hawk of this configuration and what cabinets/cabinet fronts I have to remove to find them? In a friend with a Fleet they are on the back left side with the batteries and clearly labeled. I am not so lucky.
2. Assuming I can find the wires, do both pairs (one form the roof and one from the back) attach to the input for the controller?
3. Does the wire that goes from the controller to the battery go through the fuse box in the camper (it has at least one empty fuse slot), or do I have to install an inline fuse?
4. Is there a wiring diagram available for these campers someplace? I have asked a couple of times but gotten no response. It would really help with this and any trouble shooting to know what wires go where.
5. Any other advice you can give me on finding the wires and installing the controller?

Thanks for all the other good information on solar panels on the site.

 

[DrJ]

bluemtn,

Let me see if I can help.
I currently have rollover couch hawk so it may be a little different.

1 - my wires were bundled together in the battery box - not labeled. I recommend starting there and work your way back to your battery monitor. They are likely the only set of wires not connected.

2 - I had only one pair but only had roof plug so not sure what you have. If there are two pairs and you plan on using both roof and side input for solar I would tie them together before charge controller.

3 - solar controller should be connected directly to the battery not the fuse box. Most solar setups do call for an inline fuse to protect your system. Check with the instructions from your charge controller.

4- I am unaware of wiring diagram. But I'd have to assume FWC has one.

5- FWCs has one of the easiest solar setups around.
A- attach your panel to roof (or portable)
Need SAE plug. I connected to my MC4 plugs than cut the other end and spliced on the SAE plug to connect to the roof.
B- attach solar wires to controller
Use a fuse here for protection
C- attach wires from controller to batteries
Use appropriately sized wires at least gauge 10 - bigger is better.
D- test your system
Need to have a fixed or temporary monitor to see if voltage changes once panel is in the sun.

Hope that helps.

 

[BlueMtn]

Thanks DrJ. Your advice helped and I found that Shaw from FWC gave me the wrong information. The wire pair I first identified above the battery box, is the solar input. There is only one, not two and they are not behind the cabinet fronts and do not require dismantling the cabinets to get at them as Shaw suggested. I have attached a picture of the solar wire pair in the battery box for those who may have the same setup.

I followed DrJ's advice and tried harder to trace the wires to their origin. I did have to take one cabinet front panel off, and could not follow them continuously, but did manage to see that they headed toward the back of the camper—in the direction of the rear solar plug. So, it seemed like they were the correct wires. To check, I soldered a 9V battery to a plug like the plug for solar on the camper and then plugged it into the back solar plug. I measured the voltage on the coiled wire in the battery compartment (two yellow connectors in the picture below) and it was 9V. I then plugged the battery into the roof plug and got the same result. The wires from the roof and the back plugs come together somewhere in the camper, but I could not find out where. But, they both lead to the coiled wire above the battery box.

This should now be simple, as DrJ said: Attach the coiled wire to a controller with inline fuse, attach wire to the battery from the controller, add a charge monitor, and plug in the solar panel to the back. The controller should easily fit in the area just above the battery separator.

Thanks everyone for posting your solar setups on the site—it all has been very useful in figuring this out.