My Solar Project

ok, here we go, a couple hours of prep today. Click on pictures to enlarge.

For future owners that may not be familiar with the inside of an FWC, here is the rear area of the roll-over couch model (with cushions removed). The battery compartment is on the right under the hatch with the hole, the water tank is in the center, and cabinets on the left the. The Trimetric will be placed to the left of the white thermostat.

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Here is the same area after I have removed the cover of the water tank and some of the cabinet facing on the left so I can run wires for the Trimetric. Wires for the other electronics currently run from the battery compartment, along the top rear of the water tank, and then through a hole under the cabinets, now exposed by removing a few of the cabinet faces.

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Inside of the cabinets where Trimetric will be installed (stuck my arm in and shot the picture from the back of the cabinet looking out).

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Current roof/panel

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Easy to remove with just 6 screws. This single 80W panel weighed 22 lbs.

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Ready for phase 2 tomorrow. Put a little duck tape on the old screw holes so moisture doesn't get in there tonight. FWC recommends silaprene to seal the holes, but what product is that in? Or what are the more readily available options?

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What semi permanent means is the 4000/4200 adhesive/sealant can be separated from the panel and the roof with some effort. Do NOT use 5200 series adhesive unless you want the panel to sealant separation to be within the pv panel layers.

In the marine environment, 5200 is used below waterline for applications where there is no intention of ever separating the parts. Attempting to pry off a part adhered with 5200 can remove the gel coat and part of the underlying fiberglass layer, I understand that heat can be used to soften the adhesive's grip but most heat guns would not likely benefit the bendable laminated panel.

Why might you want to remove a pv panel? Perhaps you snag a wire and rip it from the panel? A panel could fail while under warranty and need to be returned for replacement. A panel with a significantly better conversion rate becomes available. At least those are the excuses I'm using to convince myself to attach the panel to sheet aluminum with screws and mount that to the roof rack. :oops:

Paul
 
Royal Adhesives makes 40+ Silaprene products for the RV market. Of those "All Weather Sealant" looks promising and it is sold at least by Krayden.

Of course, I have not used this product nor have I ever purchased anything from Krayden. But... there it is for what it is worth. :) Bing worked.

Paul
 
PaulT - yes I read about the difference between 4000 and 5200, and ordered the 4000.
Kilroy - good catch...
ptySteve - thanks for the recommendation
 
This stuff makes short work for removing 5200 or similar sealant http://www.marineformula.com/ Yeah, I would still also recommend staying away from 5200. I just finished a trip to AZ and back from CO and my peel and stick Global Solar panels stayed stuck on solid. They use a butyl mastic to hold them down. I vacuum bagged the panels down to make sure they were pressed on as well as possible.
 
Well - met with my friend the fabricator today. Creating an aluminum platform would not be nearly as light as I hoped, around 15 - 20 lbs each depending on how many cut-outs were included, then there is concern about air under the platforms/cutouts causing the panels to be continually flexing from wind blowing underneath while driving, and a few other concerns. We talked about a lot of other fabricaton options, and after seeing the Renogy panel, he actually liked the idea of glueing down better than any of other options.

So, I'm going to go with glue down. The examples I've seen on here look so neat and clean, and light!

Jim, Sledawg and others that have glued down:
- did you apply glue to the panel or roof, or both?
- just a bead around the edge, a 1" or greater smear around the edge, any in the middle, etc?
- approximately how much glue per panel? I see that it comes in 3 oz or 10 oz tubes.

Jim, you described your process in the other thread really well. Cleaning, test run, etc. Very well thought out and it will be helpful.

Is there anything you guys would do different?
 
Jim - I re-read your previous thread that you used most of a 10 oz tube for one panel, so that helps with that question.

I downloaded the 3M product directions and for prep it says:
- wipe new surfaces with 3M General Purpose Adhesive Cleaner 08984, or equivalent
- other than new surfaces should be sanded with a fine grain abrasive to enhance bond strength

Since the panel is new and the roof is old did you guys that have already done this do both? Wipe the panel with the cleaner and lightly sand the camper roof?
 
I think I'd probably clean it with alcohol and call it good if its clean to start with. What I did with my rack and thats worked well.
 
I washed the area with soap and water. Dried it. Then used Acetone and wore chemical safe gloves. I didn't sand it.

The 3M 4000 has the consistency of "silicone" . Its very easy to apply.

When applying I ran a quarter to half inch bead a half an inch in from the Panel border around the perimeter to allow for handling. Then a bead up and down widely spaced in the middle. Installer will have 15 minutes working time before the 4000 sets up.

We owners with the one-piece roof have observed the roof "flex's" in wind so the bendable panels "ride well" with the roll. In November I was side on to 50-60 mile wind gusts. Roof was "popping and flexing" solar panel rode out the storm well with no cracking of the glue.

If you want to review the Sept post on GLUE type click on the blue link.

The install link. with pictures - numbers 24, 28, 32, 51 . This post has a good discussion on the subject for those new to the Forum or who missed the "bendable panel" discussion.
 
ok, ready to install the Trimetric. After reading threads here and talking to Bogart, I'll contribute my own version of how to install. The Bogart instructions were obviously written by an electrical engineer (no offense to those here that actually understand them!) and reviewed by an attorney to insure that it covered all possible scenarios. But after working this for a bit, I think its not that complicated, so this is how I think it all works. Bogart said there is no polarity to the shunt, so you can switch right and left on the diagram.

The battery cable on the left battery can optionally be connected to the negative terminal of the battery on the right rather than the shunt.


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Hi Folks,

To re-visit the shade question once again, I wrote to Renology and asked what effect shade has on the output of their panels. Here's what they said:

"The solar cells within the panel are wired in series meaning that the current of the entire panel will drop to the current of the shaded cells."

This, of course, would also apply to another panel wired in series.

Does anyone know of a source of solar collectors that don't exhibit this behavior? I know they exist.

Thanks.

- Bernard
 
Most solar cells produce about 0.5 volts each, so they have to be in series -- usually 36 of them - to produce the desired ~18 volts output from a panel.
Most panels makes use of a couple of bypass diodes to reduce the effect (on current) of partial shading. My panels have two bypass diodes (they're visible on the back of the panel), semi-isolating 3 sets of 12 cells...though they're still all in series. But I'm not an electrical engineer, so see the link for a technical explanation.

That PV Education site has lots more info, some of it kinda technical.
 
one last question before installing the rest of the stuff this weekend. Up thread PaulT said

"In addition to changing your controller, be sure to check the in-line fuse size in the factory installed power leads from the solar panel to the controller. Make sure they are sized to handle the current in full sun for all the panels that you parallel before plugging into the factory plug. My fuses are located inside the cabinet directly behind the factory installed controller. I wouldn't have known they were there if I had not been looking at something else inside the cabinet."

I sent an email to FWC about this and I only got back that this is in the battery compartment. But I don't see anything in the battery compartment other than the in-line fuses on the battery cables - one on a positive cable one on a negative cable. I have sent a follow-up email about this to FWC but have not heard back. Anyone have info about this?

Regarding size of the fuse I got this from Morningstar:

"you shouldn't need to install fuses on both the positive and negative battery cable. Normal procedure is to install a fuse only on the positive battery cable leading to the controller. The fuse should be sized to at least 125% of the maximum Short Circuit Current (Isc) of your array. This protects the batteries and wiring from a battery short circuit, but also prevents any nuisance tripping of the fuse under high solar output conditions"

So with this I calculate I need a fuse of 22 amps, or whatever the next size is. But I need to confirm where this fuse goes. Do I replace only the fuse on the positive battery cable, both, or is it a different fuse altogether?
 
I have inline fuses on the wires near the batteries that go to the solar controller. I don't know why they put fuses on both the positive and negative lines. Mine were 5 amp and blew before I got the new camper home. Well one blew.

Steve
 
I should have finished reading your post. You need to replace both fuses or replace the negative fuse with a wire (to be safe, after finding out why they put a fuse on the negative wire) and just replace the positive fuse. If you will have two 100 watt panels on the roof, a 20 amp fuse sounds like it might work. If they make a 25 amp fuse, that probably would be the best choice.

Steve
 
Steve - I guess that is what confuses me. PaulT mentions to replace the "fuse" not "fuses". I am assuming this is the fuses on the cables going from the solar controller to the batteries, but just wanted to make sure. I don't see any other fuses.

Your experience sounds similar to mine. I blew one, sometimes two fuses a day during my first year until FWC told me to increase them from 5 to 10 amps.

I have a question on the previous page for those that might be able to help...
 
Yeah, getting off topic some but I did not know I had a fuse on the negative until it blew after I raised the 5 amp fuse on the positive to a 7 amp fuse. and then the fuse on the negative wire blew. So I upped it to a 7 amp. And then replaced the stock solar panel with a 130 watt panel and did not have anyone remind me to up the fuse size so I blew it again. This time I replaced both of them. It has been working great but.... Following this thread has got me thinking about upgrading to the Renogy panels like you did. You are going to have a nice setup! I probably will do the same before I leave for Alaska in May. It will keep eating away at me.

Steve
 
Steve,
I missed the reason you have a fuse on the neg wire from the solar controller. My system has a 15 amp fuse on the pos side only.?
 
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