Nightmares With Camping Neighbors

ski3pin

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Over the years several on WTW have shared stories about misadventures with other campers. The Lady and I have had our share. Last weekend we had another one.

We live close to Lake Tahoe and we tend to stay away from our area during summer because of the heavy use. Our local National Forests are now - within the management guide lines of the USFS - designated as "Urban Forests" meaning that they are close to and used by major population centers.

We should have stayed away last weekend.

We just wanted to do a simple day hike, summit three peaks, the first, second, and fourth highest in the Lake Tahoe Basin. Our access was out of Hope Valley on the dirt USFS Willow Creek Road on the Toiyabe National Forest. We found a nice useable campsite about a half mile above the Armstrong Pass trailhead early Friday evening. We'd start the hike from there and relax after completing the hike Saturday afternoon and spend another night. The road continues up past our campsite.

Our hike route was a circle and our route back took us back down the road above our camp. At the end of a spur road was a group of young people with tents and an ez-up, cases of beer, smoking cigarettes (fire restrictions prohibit smoking outside a vehicle with the windows up), and some young people over playing in the shallow creek. My wife, the middle school teacher, estimated their age around 16. No vehicle was parked. They had been dropped off, to hold the area? This was approximately .75 mile above us.

Vehicles started driving in shortly after our return to our camper. The first group was 6 including pickups loaded with tables and equipment, not the usual camping stuff piled in the back of a pickup. The vehicles continued coming in. There were some very nice cars driving by. Mom and Dad are doing well or carrying a great deal of debt. It was obvious a party for kids was planned. A big party. The last car went up the road around 3 am. I'd estimate 30 plus vehicles, all packed with kids. A couple of groups parked lower and walked up.

Full on festival sound system. It could strip the needles off of pine trees, maybe did.

I expect this event was promoted over social media with the possibly of a cover charge and this being a money making event.

The people doing the sound appeared experienced insofar as they drove out with two loaded pickups at 6 am Sunday morning, ahead of when they thought authorities might show.

If you're curious about the location, copy and paste these coordinates into Google Earth -
38°50'20.82"N 119°53'05.8"W (using the historical imagery icon move to 6/15/2013)

Welcome to our urban forests.
 
that road can at times be quite difficult for the "nice cars"....even a good 4x4 often has to pick it's path carefully...

THANKFULLY you were not hassled yet we can not sleep well w/ the "what if's"....:

WONDERING ....would there been any response from "authorities" had the event been reported ????
 
Never had to deal with that kind of scale before. When we were young and did similar it was on a friends farm in the midwest. Not public land. Charging admission on public land is a huge NO NO. That crosses the line from a gathering of friends into a permit required commercial event.

It's a crazy world out there these days!
 
Hey Ski sorry you had bad timing for your visit. That area has seen more use over the years. The entrance road (#51) can get bad and then limits what kind of cars can come in. Then it gets bladed and allow all types in.

We have done the 3 peaks many times and it is a nice loop with views. Have not done it in a few years, need to get in shape and take the stroll!
 
pvstoy said:
Hey Ski sorry you had bad timing for your visit. That area has seen more use over the years. The entrance road (#51) can get bad and then limits what kind of cars can come in. Then it gets bladed and allow all types in.

We have done the 3 peaks many times and it is a nice loop with views. Have not done it in a few years, need to get in shape and take the stroll!
Yes Patrick, a very nice stroll. The views are nice even on a hazy summer day. The road has recently been bladed. The area is seeing a lot of use. The were several small groups dispersed camping below the trailhead for Armstrong Pass. That was a loud mix of dog barking and gunshots. Next time we do the Tahoe Trifecta it will be a day trip from home.




 
Unfortunately with social media this is becoming more common on federal lands. Has been happening steadily for the last few years. Modern life with the rave crowd. If the local agency gets enough info they can attend, but trying to control dozens of people with one or two LEO's is kinda hard.
 
Ski-I feel for you and all of us have had those experiences with real "public areas and the public that goes with it".

Yep-that's why we bought our pop-ups--to get away from it all, but we all make mistakes! Many years ago (BP-before owning a pop-up), I was tired of driving and decided to rest and camp for a while at one of the more used state camp grounds just north of Fort Bragg. It was fall and mid week so I figured week end crowds and the such would be absent. I even set up camp away from the main camp area near the group camp area (a mistake). Wow, that first night was great, no people, the beach right there, plenty of places to roam and play with the dog---so I decided to stay a couple of days more and went and paid the fee a couple of days more.

After an nice morning of enjoying nature, I was sitting back and enjoying my first adult libation, when the first truck arrived at the group campground ; then the second and on and on until almost the whole area was full of happy campers out to enjoy nature. What were they-Boy Scouts -no they were a mixed group-hmmmmm-this does not look good for me!!! Once they camp was set up I heard the end of my peaceful camping when it (a loud speaker) called the group to order and the first of many group prayers was read and the first song of many was sung. Yep as the ranger told me later, "they come here every year for a week". Yep, my fault, I should of checked, religion and civilization had found found me.

They ignored me, my dog and my beer and spent from dawn to dusk in noisy meetings,praying, singing, eating and playing games---it seemed that that l really blown it this time and I should have packed up and left and let the state keep my money----but I stayed. Today with my pop-up I would have left for greener pastures, but in those days, $8.00 a night was worth fighting for. I think what amazed me was their total disregard for the rest of their fellow campers and I know that many other campers complained about the noise but as long as they stopped by 10 the camp staff could not do much about it! Yep they paid so they to could enjoy nature--in their own way---I guess!

So Ski, I think then is when I started down the road to pop-up ownership and the freedom to really go and WTW ;) !

Smoke
 
Smokecreek1 said:
.................................................. Yep, my fault, I should of checked, religion and civilization had found found me.

.......................................................

So Ski, I think then is when I started down the road to pop-up ownership and the freedom to really go and WTW ;) !

Smoke
"The lord works in mysterious ways" or so I've heard...................

Thanks for the great story, Smoke! :)
 
I frequent the ENF just because its close (maybe tomorrow even if my stuff shows up today) if I have little time. Its really a crapshoot where I like to go. Some days you may have it all to yourself, others are more like what you described.

Isn't that area part of a proposed Wildnerness area?
 
We had a recent nightmare over Memorial Day. We were floating the John Day river and it was busy as you would expect on a holiday weekend. We stayed in our last camp two nights to avoid the scramble of competing for a campsite. The established camps both up stream and down were occupied and quiet so I thought we were in good shape. The floatillas were passing us by but then it got to be later in the day and those that didn't get an early start were starting to get nervous about finding one. We were out on a hike and saw that someone had stopped and seemed to be setting up on the gravel / cobble bar between us and the downstream camp. I surely wouldn't want to camp there but desperate measures for desperate times. Then the same thing happened between the upstream camp and our camp, and let me tell you these are big cobbles, there isn't a smooth spot for a kitchen, tent or chair. So we were enjoying the evening and sitting watching these folks struggle to find a spot to sleep and thinking you couldn't possibly fit another human on this stretch of river. Boy was I wrong. Along comes yet another group of 4 boats and they pull in between these two other improvised camps and start looking around. One gal takes a few steps behind a willow but still in full view and starts making motions like she has some business to do. The better half gives her a holler that she is in our full view assuming she didn't know we where there. She took a look at us and hollered "this is happening!", squatted and flung her skirt up and did her business with her rear pointing right at us. They then proceeded to set up camp and their groover right in direct view of our kitchen. They didn't seem to care about invading anyone's space and carried on well into the night. And similar to Ski's situation they had plenty of kids there. I guess they are teaching a whole new generation about river and camp etiquette. So much for river trips on holiday weekends, I think we may be staying home for the first weekend this summer over Labor day...
 
For the reasons stated above I adhere to the mud hole campsite philosophy ... once you pass the first mud hole u rarely see anyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Wander The West
 
Mud hole philosophy is good, hebegebe.

Since retiring I stay home during holidays. And i usually find something else to do during the tourist heavy months of July and August. I have found when the nighttime temperatures drop to 40º the partiers stay home.

jim
 
Interesting thread. Sorry for your experience with the selfish, Ski.

I have two items to contribute for thought fodder:

I just went through a conversation with a friend, who later greeted me at Rotary as "Mr. Cranky". We'll call my friend Paul. I took it in good stead, as Paul is a friend. The issue was a social media generated gathering that Paul helped promote resulting with 200 men showing up at a local swimming hole on our Yuba River. I pointed out that the locals were obviously overwhelmed by such a large crowd. Imagine if you were there for a quiet swim when suddenly more and more people suddenly multiply the population ten fold, I asked. It's a State Park, he said. What about sanitation, parking, dogs, etc.? I conjectured they might have been required to have a special permit for such a large group. He said last year they only had 40 men, but this year was 200. I asked him to think ahead and realize that each of those men now know to get there and will bring even more people. I just read that our Yuba River State Park has had an increase from 490,000 to 550,000 annual users while experiencing a 50% reduction in staff. Our community just had a town hall meeting on the risk of Loving the Yuba to Death, especially addressing the risk of fire from idiots who start campfires in a tinderbox river canyon.

Second item is more of a phenomena. We call it the Magnet Effect.
It seems that when we find a nice spot, some "city folk" will park themselves too close and sometimes even appear to be nudging us away so they might benefit. It often involves letting their kids walk right through our camp and the parents just wander along like they own the place. We had this happen at Loon lake last weekend, where we had found a little cove tucked around the corner from a beach. There we were sitting in the shade with our dog when Mom and daughter come along. Daughter seems to need an audience and starts climbing up and down a rock right in front of us. She was cute, but they just kept moving closer and closer to where we sat, despite a large empty beach next door. Callie was growling and letting out a few barks. They continued to advance on us, with the girl walking over our towels and Mom and Dad walking down to our kayaks. They never greeted us and we just sat there stunned they would be so intrusive. They then moved slightly behind us and sat on a large rock overviewing our little scene. I wanted to swim, but not while being scrutinized from overhead. But we realized they had no water, no snacks, no shade and no hats in the blazing sun. We out waited them and they left. The girl then walked through our camp, almost tripping over our legs, riling up our dog. Dad came over and tried to pet Callie, who growled. I told the guy, "I think she feels a little bit invaded." He mumbled and left us in peace. It's an odd phenomena, but we see it pretty often, whether it's a pullout in DV or a fall color spot or a picnic on a quiet shore. I do think we're more private than many, but also think many folks don't respect giving space to others. We often skip a spot because someone else has it and move on. /rant off
 
Yep, that's why when you the only one in a civilized cg, you can bet someone-,usually a family (usually from hell) or large RV camps next you! Most of us when we camp in a cg, pick a place far as you can from any other camper (that is unless bad weather, late night arrival, no where else to park,etc). I bet most of us are the type that when we are in a cg and another rig arrives we start saying to our selves "Oh, please don't park next to me, please, pretty please." I guess that's why most try to keep away from those types of places and situations and why when we do get together as a sort of a group, it is loose, friendly and nothing is mandated but to have a good time, eat,and talk! Oh yes--and they are short in duration and everything we do or not do is voluntary! Time to get ready to head out and WTW!

Smoke
 
Hey Andy that magnet effect goes to being out photographing. Just set up a tripod or have a camera in hand, and you can't believe how many people are right next to you snapping a image because we are there so it must be good.
 
pvstoy said:
Hey Andy that magnet effect goes to being out photographing. Just set up a tripod or have a camera in hand, and you can't believe how many people are right next to you snapping a image because we are there so it must be good.
We were at Grand Tetons for fall foliage. I saw black skies and golden aspens in front of the mountains. We pulled in to a large empty parking lot. I had two bodies with two lenses, wide and telephoto with tripod happily shooting away thinking wow, this is soooooo cool. Definitely not like at Oxbow Bend earlier in the morning where we were elbow deep. In pops a car, parks right next to us and out comes a couple. There is room, lots of room on both sides of me and many other places to park. And, where do they stand? Right. Next. To. Me. Seriously. No respect for personal space and personal boundaries. They could have set up anywhere as the view was wide and about the same by me as 30+ feet on either side. By that time, though, the drama was over. I dunno, I would never do that.
 
I had to learn this the hard way. Now I pay for one night at a time when in a cg, just in case I decide to relocate. And as far as people being right next to you. I've noticed that in parking lots some folks will park right next to the camper and hang out. Even when there are plenty of empty spaces. Go figure.

Mike
 
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