Overweight: Your perspective

[Tubel5000]

Hey all, I am a longtime reader and gathering all the information you guys provide and reading through your adventures made me sign up here as well.
However, here goes my first post:

I am looking into buying a truck/pop up-camper combo. We would be using the setup being always 2 or three people.

My dream combo is the same that many of you have: A Tacoma with an FWC Fleet or similar. If possible, I would like to have a Toyota and avoid going Full Size. When I plan a bit further and calculate weights, the numbers just don't add up.
A Tacoma with an FWC Fleet, 3 people and camping gear/clothing, etc. is way over the allowed GVWR of a tacoma (and of every 1/2 ton truck).

I know, many of you upgrade tires and suspension to achieve a better ride. Looking at how many of you do that, it seems the best way to work.

My question is:
- Aren't you worried about insurance in case of an accident (being overloaded)?
- Overloaded pickups tend to break (frame) - Is that a problem you are aware of? If so, how do you handle it?
- what is your approach to that obvious problem?

 

[ETAV8R]

I just upgraded my suspension again. This time only an add-a-leaf to my current pack. I have an upcoming trip in a couple weeks and will test it out.

It all depends on how overloaded you are and if you are willing to go that route. If you have read here enough you know that there are multiple ways to tackle improving a Tacoma's suspension. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with a fully loaded Eagle/Swift on a Tacoma. But people do it.

I'll be anxious to hear the other replies.

 

[rando]

I was very concerned about weight when looking to buy our Fleet flatbed for our 2016 Tacoma double cab. I was also quite disappointed when our Fleet came in 300lbs heavier than listed. However, after 7000 miles of driving including a lot of rougher 4wd roads, I am less concerned. You will need to upgrade the suspension (we replaced the leaf springs with OME Dakars with an extra leaf, the front springs and OME BP-51s all around) upgrade the tires and you need to keep an eye on weight - you may not also want to add a steel ARB bumper winch and carry two kayaks and two fat bikes all the time. With the tire and suspension work, it handles pretty well (not a sports car) and we have no problem with power or braking. It has only been 7000 miles, but we have not noticed any premature wear either.

One thing that has always bugged me is that we have no idea what the limiting factor is for payload/gvwr is. Is it the tires, the springs, the axel, the frame, the brakes? I suspect on the Tacoma, the first limit is the springs (they want soft springs for an American friendly cushy ride), followed by the tires, but I don't know for sure.

The other thing to remember is that the number that matters is GVWR not payload. You may be exceeding your payload by what seems like a scary amount (30 - 50%), but you are only exceeding your GVWR by 10 - 15%. As I have said before, it is not like everything is hunky dory when your are 3% under GVWR and goes to cr@p when you are 10% over - engineering tolerances just aren't that tight.

 

[rando]

Also to answer your specific questions:

1. I am not worried about insurance. I read through the fine print in my insurance and there is no mention of weight. I don't really see this as any different than other vehicle modifications that may make your vehicle less safe (lifts, bumper bars, oversized tires, roof top tents etc).
2. I have not seen any evidence or instance of a broken frame on a tacoma from a camper, but would be interested if you had.
3. Upgraded suspension and tires and driving the truck like it is heavy (because it is heavy).

 

[ski3pin]

<snip>
2. I have not seen any evidence or instance of a broken frame on a tacoma from a camper, but would be interested if you had.

Take a look at the end of this web page -

http://ourfourwheelcamper.blogspot.com/2012/07/courtright-reservoir.html

 

[rando]

That is interesting. It does appear to be self inflicted though with a poorly thought out 'reinforcement' to begin with that caused a stress riser where you have a step change in frame rigidity. But you are right, it is an example of frame damage from a FWC.

 

[klahanie]

... My dream combo is the same that many of you have: A Tacoma with an FWC Fleet or similar. ...

It's a beautiful dream, made more beautiful by how well the two parts look together, like they were simply made for each other - the best looking combo imo.


I chose full size so I don't have any platform specific solutions etc other than the advice to keep the vehicle brakes in excellent working condition.


To echo ETAV8R's comment, it really comes down to, are you going to be okay with it ? The adage here would be "know thyself".


You already know you would be overweight before buying - can't use the "I had the truck already" rational. And you'll know that everyone is different, what might work for a solo occupant may not be satisfactory for three people.


So, does having those two other occupants influence your weight concern ? Would weight concern affect where you chose to travel ? Others do it. Are you going to be okay with it ?


I'll close with a story about a couple we know. They are 20-25 year long FWC camper owners with a first gen Tundra (prev was a Toyota pu). Compared to us, they don't carry a lot of "stuff". Almost absent is extra "just in case something goes wrong stuff". Because, they haven't the room and more importantly they don't want too, "more stuff, more problems". They claim to have never weighed their rig and believe they "can't be" overweight. I believe differently but ... so what ... They've successfully travelled all over western Canada, US and Mexico for months at a time over two decades. Their focus is not worry but enjoying themselves with enthusiasm. And for them, it's worked !

 

[PackRat]

You are lucky...you aren't trying to cram ten pounds of #$@ in a five pound bag! Meaning you don't already have a truck not suited to the weight and balance of everything you will be carrying!

If you intend on mounting the camper for two weeks a year, staying on asphalt, no big hills, etc. you can probably overload it. You could add springs, bags, etc. but then unloaded it would ride "like a truck".

Go back to square ONE:
1) Find the camper you want and get the WET weight from the mfger.
2) Make a list of EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY who will be on the trip and figure out the WEIGHT of all that.
3) Now you know what the load will be.
4) Now you can go look at trucks to see what you NEED....and that is probably a 3/4 ton based on the GVWR needed to haul you and your camper and your "stuff" safely down the happy highway.

Just my $0.02 worth of advice.

 

[Foy]

There are frequent and helpful discussions about "running heavy" here on WTW and on many other forums, a few of which I've provided my $00.02 to.

A brief reiteration here is that I am skeptical about insurance companies providing a "free pass" to their insureds if they have even a shred of a case to deny a claim. Their business model is collecting premiums and playing hardball on claims. I have, however, little other than anecdotes to suggest carriers routinely take such positions regarding carried or towed camper units. I'd still expect some pushback in the event a collision claim was made by the owner of any rig which was laden materially beyond its GVWR or GCWR, particularly if said owner had spoken frequently on social media/internet forums specifically about knowing he was running heavy.

There are lots of ways to legitimately skin a cat, so my feeling is "why try to cut corners?" If one needs a truck with "x-y-z" sort of specs, they're available.

Foy

 

[ETAV8R]

...
My dream combo is the same that many of you have: A Tacoma with an FWC Fleet or similar. If possible, I would like to have a Toyota and avoid going Full Size.

You didn't state what configuration the Tacoma would be nor the camper. Regardless of the Tacoma if the camper is a shell model it leaves you more wiggle room but you will still need to improve the suspension. I just added the OME AAL to my leaf pack and will be taking it out in a couple weeks and will report back then.

I know the weight of my camper and have weighed almost all my gear that goes on trips so I know ballpark what the truck is carrying. Hoping my newest addition to the suspension is what it needs to carry the gear better.

 

[moveinon]

The difference between 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton with totally different GVW is full of confusion-there is no set standard for each component on the trucks. In some years the same frame was used on all models, other years two might be same and still others all are different. Some years and models have the same alternator, transmission, radiator, drive train and even rear end. Other years they are all different. In other words, in some cases all you have to do is to upgrade one component and you have immediately gone from 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton. The Toyota Hilux has almost 1,000 lbs more GVW than the Tacoma and runs the same engine, drive train and brakes as the Tacoma in some models. It does have much beefier suspension, boxed frame, and higher rated tires. Had a 1/2 ton tacoma pickup that I upgraded the brakes, shocks, tires, springs, and added air bags. Put over 100,000 miles, much of it on really rough logging roads hauling wood for house and cabin. Each load was at least 1,000 lbs over GVW for the truck before modifications. I did that because it was what I had and would not recommend going that far over GVW. But I never had a single problem with anything failing in all those rough miles because of the weight and ended up selling it with over 250,000 miles without any major work which says a lot about what the engine, drive train and frame can handle. I now have a newer Tacoma 4X4 with upgraded suspension and brakes with a fully equipped Fleet which runs about 300 pounds over GVW on most trips. In my experience the stock suspension on the Tacoma is too week even for GVW and upgraded tires and brakes greatly add to safety -but with those modifications it handles the FWC great even off road.

 

[idahoron]

One of my good friends is a Service manager for Toyota.
I told him my numbers for my Tundra. I am right at the Max most of the time and some times over. I talked to him about how the truck says X amount for GVWR.
He said read that close. It says that with P rated tires. Just the act of changing the tires increases the GVWR. I asked him by how much and he said he didn't know but The weak link in the GVWR rating for Toyota is the P rated tires.

 

[Stalking Light]

I have a Tacoma with a fully loaded Eagle as well as an ARB front bumper w/winch and an Aluminess rear with deluxe box and spare carrier. I have upgraded my tires and suspension. My truck is my daily driver and my camper is on full time. The truck handles well and most importantly brakes well. I know it is surely over weight but as long as it handles like it does I'm not overly concerned.

 

[JHanson]

Tubel5000,

I've written a number of article on this issue on Overland Tech and Travel. Search for JATAC and you'll find them. One looked at emergency handling, here. There's no doubt you'll be beyond the GVWR of a Tacoma with a Four Wheel Camper and all equipment, but there are steps you can take to compensate. Suspension is obviously number one.

The broken chassis referenced in the link is not a good example, I believe, due to the previous "reinforcements" added by the owner. It's impossible to say whether or not the frame would have broken if those had not been in place. I'm not a fan of the current open-channel frame of the Tacoma, but I'm not worried about actual breakage.

 

[BillTheHiker]

This is a good thread and have learned from it. But I am curious how the GVWR is actually computed.
Does anyone know the algorithm used to calculate GVWR? It probably varies among manufacturers, etc., but whatever the number is for your vehicle, the manufacturer must have an algorithm for it. I know pretty much what it means and the variables that go into it, but it would be interesting to know exactly how the number is computed. For my Tacoma, it is 5350 lbs, so how exactly was that computed?

I have googled to try to find it, but no luck so far.

 

[rando]

Speaking as a recovering engineer I honestly don't think it is as scientific as a hard and fast algorithm. Sure, there are some numbers that go into the decision - the load range of the tires being an obvious one. But I am guessing some of it is empirical - we can put this many kilos in it and still accelerate, brake and corner at an acceptable rate. Then I am sure there are some 'margins', some lawyer input and finally and I am guessing significantly some marketing input. They want their ratings to be high enough for the median customer who is looking to buy their truck, but not so high that it would siphon sales of larger and higher profit margin trucks in their line up.

 

[dharte]

I'm confused why anyone would want a Tacoma/camper combo over a full size setup. They don't get better gas mileage than modern full size trucks and have a more limited range. My diesel F250 with a Hawk gets better mileage on trips than my friends loaded up Tacoma (without a camper). Also the full size trucks are more comfortable, safer in a crash, and obviously can tow more and handle heavier payloads. The only advantage to a Tacoma is it's a little more maneuverable, but how often would that really limit where you can go? Neither are going to function like a short wheelbase Wrangler off road. An article in today's paper said that certain models of full-size trucks and SUV's (like the F150) have a higher chance to make it to 200,000 miles over all other vehicles, so I don't think reliability is a factor. Tacomas are good trucks but they are not engineered for camper hauling.

 

[ETAV8R]

Really depends on where you are located and where you like to go. I've been on several roads I wouldn't feel comfortable with the width of a full size and camper. I've also been on other roads where a full size and camper would not have made it through period without significant damage to the camper and/or truck.

Lots of variables really. Since I've got a shell model I can only comment on my experiences. I've known other people with built out Eagle campers who improved their suspensions and had zero issues. Not everyone needs/wants a full-size.

 

[cwdtmmrs]

dharte, most of what you wrote is true except the "little more maneuverable" part. There is no comparison between any full size pick up and my old 1986 Toyota/Ranger II FWC in the hills. You simply could not get your F250 where I take my rig. BTW, my loaded/wet rig (not a shell either) is still a couple hundred pounds under GVW.

cwd

 

[Bill D]

Bigger is better!