Raising or Lowering FWC Top In Below Zero [F].

[Wallowa]

Planning a month long ski bum tour our here in Washington, Idaho and Montana in February.

Started seriously walking myself through critical issues with using my 2016 Hawk during extreme weather conditions.

Sooooo, want to glean ideas from those that have used their FWCs under extreme Winter conditions.

When driving: Any issues with ice accumulation? Can snow stick to the top while moving or form ice?

When parked: Does the cold [below zero] stop or inhibit raising or lowering the top?

While skiing and if it is snowing I assume that I will need to return to the Hawk to remove snow load if top is up but what about if top is down?

When parked and unoccupied, should the top be left up or down?

Plumbing will be drained; can't decide if I can use the sink drain or not, probably not due to water in the drain trap and freezing in the drain hose outside rendering it non-functional.

Most locations where I will be skiing do not have electrical hookups [backcountry] so it will be propane furnace only when stopped; I do not leave propane on when moving.

Any experiences that you folks have had under these condition would help me.

Thanks.

Phil

 

[Kolockum]

I used to work at a ski resort and live in a cabin up on the slope (~15 min walk to my truck). I parked my truck in the main parking lot with the camper on the back. Needless to say I didn't walk down to the parking lot unless I had to. Usually for work. I would brush the snow off in the morning when I got off work and in the evening as I started work. However when things were very busy I would not get around to it. I have had up to 2'+ of snow an not had a problem. However I would not drive around with that much snow on top. If it starts raining then I would make sure all the snow is off as it will get heavy very fast.

(If you can help it pull/push as much snow to the passenger side so you don't have to dig out your door)


While camping if it looks like a lot of snow will put one end of the roof down to allow the snow to slide off.

I have raised the roof in -10 degree weather no problem. Things are a bit stiff but still work.

The front of the camper will have ice build up just like the front of your truck. Never had much of anything stick to the top.

I do not have indoor plumbing except for the drain. I normally cook meals that do not require lots of water.

Final note: I find that jugs of water will collect a LOT condensation on the outside. Anything that touches it will get wet instantly.

 

[longhorn1]

Have a tarp over the top you can pull off with the snow. Kind of a fine line game with solar. We have a 4 gallon water container with a spigot that sits on the counter. In cold temperatures we place a bowl in the sink to catch water. We have a one gallon container and a funnel. Brush our teeth and spit into the funnel. Wash your hands and pour the bowl into the funnel. Easy system that works well.

 

[Norsman]

If I get stuck in freezing temps while camping I open all the cabinets and seats so the hot air circulates in those spaces, it works. As for the drain, hook a hose to it outside and let the water run on the ground or let it freeze in the 5 gallon collapsible container. Leaving any snow on the roof worries me, I bring a foam roof snow rake. In storage during winter (we get -20 temps for a couple of weeks here)I leave the camper up in a storage unit.

 

[Wallowa]

Thanks! Just what I was looking for, first hand knowledge.

Follow-up questions:

#1 Leaving one end up but dropping the other end; does that put a lot of strain on the end board sections in the end that is up [and now angled]? I assume the end you drop is the door end so you can sleep in the other end. So Snow does slide off [again assume light snow]?

#2 How specifically do you use the "tarp over the top" when it is snowing? Can't quite visualize how to clear the snow off with the tarp. Only once? To the side or off the end? And then re-set? Mostly likely during night if snowing? What size tarp did you use?

#3 Never thought of "funnel use"; great idea, will copy that...I have an excellent 7 gallon water jug I bought in Pinedale two year ago.

#4 Our external hose that is connected to the sink drain freezes solid and blocks the drain; plus any water in drain will be in the drain trap and will potentially bust it if it freezes....just me but I will work with the basin and funnel.

#5 When we have had water in our plumbing we also leave the turnbuckle and cabinet doors open with heater going full tilt...I also have used large size chemical hand warmers [6hrs] on the water pump overnight just to hedge my bets. Never have but could boil water and fill nalgene bottles then place them near plumbing inside cabinets.

As I recall the roof is rated to 1,000 pound load, I assume that is when down. And yes, freezing rain or rain or even abrupt temp ranges can create havoc in snow country. On snow days I plan to lower the top and visit the camper often during the day while skiing to clear off the snow load...I don't keep the top down overnight; even if I could sleep in it [side dinette] using the heater in that tight a space could be a problem, even with my 2 roof vents cracked open...

Hey, I am probably overthinking all this!

Thanks folks for you input; it really helps.

Phil

Ps...Also compiling a list of RV parking at ski areas or close by RV commercial sites with electricity to run my small electric heater and charge the batteries...yes, I have a160 W roof and a 80w portable solar panels but doubt sun will be much in evidence!

 

[Hoopy]

I keep snow off the roof check it am and pm in a resort and during the day if it dumps. if the heater is on it will cause melt and heavir load on roof so i watch it close. I have a push broom and ladder. to clean off and of coarse with panels i want them clean. snow will drift in the vents so I clear around them as well.
I have had to deice in the PCW to close and open on heavy wet snow to put up and down. It kinda looks like rime ice ! build up on the front after driveing up to a ski lodge,
we will utilize a 5 gal can in the winter and use that for our water pump is pulled out. Have not had any issues lowering or raiseing in cold weather.
maybe we'll see you at a lodge base somewhere meadows whitefish baker white pass

 

[Wallowa]

Hey ...thanks...de-ice? Using a can (s) of de-icing spray? Never thought of that, assume it will not damage the fabric or exterior...

I will post my tentative schedule when I settle on a starting date...will start at White Pass and then Mission Ridge while working my way East into Montana....I have never skied any of the ski areas I plan to visit; no time table and no rush....whatever.

Ours is the only Hawk [on a Tundra] with a Dead Head sticker in back window...sticker for my Bride! I am old enough to be in the Orbison and Beach Boy era; so I 'missed Jerry' ...

Phil

Ps...First real snow fall today and tomorrow out here in NE Oregon...and on my BD!

 

[Cottonww]

I remember once waking up to 16" of snow on the roof of my FWC. I didn't do as suggested and remove snow load. I let the top down and whoosh the side panels flared out. I then removed the snow enough to lift it and get the sides tucked in.

In another time we camped at -35F and the camper was so cold when we set up that the furnace fan lube was jelled and guess what? No heat. Fortunately I had a tent style catalytic heater with us that helped warm the camper but we had one hell of a snow storm from inside when we got up!

 

[Wallowa]

I remember once waking up to 16" of snow on the roof of my FWC. I didn't do as suggested and remove snow load. I let the top down and whoosh the side panels flared out. I then removed the snow enough to lift it and get the sides tucked in.

In another time we camped at -35F and the camper was so cold when we set up that the furnace fan lube was jelled and guess what? No heat. Fortunately I had a tent style catalytic heater with us that helped warm the camper but we had one hell of a snow storm from inside when we got up!

Yikes! You folks earned your stripes!

What did you use to remove snow from roof?

I never considered that the furnace would not work in extremely low temps....-35F is an extreme temp!

Backup for me if I could open a vent and if the propane would vaporize is to turn on the stove burners...

What about the door? Can then also freeze shut?

De-icer mentioned before may be an item I need to carry; but, for use out side and not inside...

Thanks for the insights..Phil

 

[Cottonww]

I burrowed a broom to remove the 16" of snow.

As to the -35F camping, here is "the rest of the story". Our camper was on a then-new 2002 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummings diesel. I had an engine pre-heater installed to make cold weather starting easier. Guess what? It was diesel fired and the fuel line jelled! Fortunately I had duel batteries for the truck. So I cranked it until a cylinder fired and black smoke surrounded us, Then another cylinder fired and more black smoke. Finally another fired and it kept running while emitting huge amounts of black smoke until all cylinders fired. We were fortunate as we were off a little used highway near Creede, CO that time of year.

 

[Beach]

While I don't camp in the above mentioned extreme conditions here in the south, we do get out in freezing weather on occasion and I have noticed the canvas is not as pliable as when warm. I have to pay close attention to how well it tucks in when lowering the top. I am curious if any of you have experienced the canvas coating cracking while raising or lowering the top in sub zero temps.

 

[Wallowa]

I had that question also but not about cracking only being able to drop the top all the way down with ice on outside...my '16 Hawk does not have canvas but I believe a Hypalon like used in inflatable boats.

Again, can de-icer damage a FWC?

Phil

I had that question also but not about cracking only being able to drop the top all the way down with ice on outside...my '16 Hawk does not have canvas but I believe Hypolon

 

[patrkbukly]

I live in Fairplay and work in Dillon CO so rather than driving over the pass daily I stay near Breck, Dillon, Silverthorne a few nights in the Granby each week.

"Feels like" has been below 0F many times and no issues so far.
I keep furnace on 45 which I think is my lowest.
Have had a foot of snow on the roof one morning and didnt seem to be a big deal. I dropped the roof and drove for a bit to clear the roof and consequently the solar panel.

Last year I was running the camper with no water in the tank or lines to stay safe, this year I am using water in the system. The only time I have ever had something frozen it was the waterpump (so maybe in some lines as well) and furnace on with cabinet doors open resolved it pretty quick but I'm not suggesting you do that.

If yours is like mine, furnace raises inside temp 20 degrees in less than 15 minutes so pretty effective.

 

[Wallowa]

Great firsthand experiences and appreciated.

When say you kept the furnace on at 45 degrees...was that just overnight?

My concern is that unless my 160 roof solar and if deployed my 80w Zamp portable are getting sun light that my batteries will go below minimum just running the furnace over a long period...

What I don't know is how long that "long period' actually is; no, how much my Tundra will charge the Hawk batteries when on the road for several hours..

Phil

 

[JaSAn]

I do not raise the top if it will get below 10ºF; my bed is down across the front. This also helps with heating: a much smaller volume and better insulated.

Here in Minnesota there is a big difference between the snow we get at 30º and 0º: the colder the less moisture is in the snow (less dense) and therefore lighter and easily blows off. So between snow composition and not raising the roof, I don't worry about snow in cold temperatures.
The snow I worry about is the stuff we get at around freezing; wet and sloppy. And will freeze into a hard, heavy cover that will be difficult to get off. So it must be removed before it freezes.

The drain I took out of my Grandby did not have a trap, only a right angle barb that attached to a hose that went out the side.

I carry some water in 1 liter pop bottles so if my water freezes I can cut them apart and melt the ice; less tedious than melting snow.

Propane does not flow well below 0ºF. The smaller the tank and the more it is used, the worse the problem. With a 20 lb tank, I cannot get one to flow consistently below 1/3 full. So either use full tanks or have a way of adding heat to the tank - I bring mine inside when that cold.

 

[patrkbukly]

Great firsthand experiences and appreciated.

When say you kept the furnace on at 45 degrees...was that just overnight?

My concern is that unless my 160 roof solar and if deployed my 80w Zamp portable are getting sun light that my batteries will go below minimum just running the furnace over a long period...

What I don't know is how long that "long period' actually is; no, how much my Tundra will charge the Hawk batteries when on the road for several hours..

Phil

Yes that's keeping it on through the night. I got the TWO battery setup and one pnael when I bought my Granby and thats two x 80 so 160 AH and runs on and off all night and still plenty good in the morning, I think 60% which includes runing my Dometic CFX28 frig. Then just a little sun and we are back to 100% in a few hours.

I also purchased a double sleeping bag rated 0 from Backcountry.com that is too heavy as any kind of back packing bag but perfect and really warm for the camper setup. Plus it's nice and big being two zipped together. I think it was only 125 or so which is cheap for something that good.

 

[Wallowa]

More valuable information...propane tanks obviously needed for furnace and heat...I can boil water with my jet boil or whisperlite stoves...

Perhaps if I tape several of the large chemical hand warmers to the propane tanks and then stuff the propane box with bubble wrap I can get the propane to vaporize if temps get extreme...

Yes, melting snow for water is not just tedious but consumes a ton of fuel.....

Just saw your reply...yes, I carry two good down bags and if needed I can stay warm without a heater..my 110 size all electric fridge will either be dialed way down or off... I may just use an ice chest since I am traveling solo and need very little refrigerated...frozen bottles of ice in the refrigerator could be another way to go and keep the fridge turned off.

 

[Billski]

I've done 30 years of winter camping in Four Wheel campers in Colorado. That's the primary reason i have them.

Overnight snow while camping can be heavy, but I usually can put my shoulder and back against the lift bar and lower it under enough control that the sides come in fine. I am sure to raise it again and dry off under the bunk area because of condensation. Over time it can deteriorate the bunk if you don't dry it out.

I've occasionally had the latches freeze and needed a screwdriver to help release them. Now and then I've had the door lock freeze and needed to use a lighter on the key to thaw it. But if I keep it lubricated it doesn't happen often.

I use an Olympia propane heater mounted on the cabinet so I don't have to run the forced air and depend on battery. I have it T'd into the main propane line with it's own shut-off and a quick connect. I have the hose long enough to put the unit on the counter if someone sleeps on the bottom bunk and want to be sure a sleeping bag won't go up against it.

I sometimes use the sink just to pour hot water, like draining pasta. I don't use a hose when it something like that. I do my dishes outside if possible or in a large pot and pour outside. I use a 5-gallon Gott insulated water jug for water. I fill it with hot water from the tub before I leave home. The lid isn't very water tight so I have to make sure it won't tip over and nothing really sensitive to water is near by.

 

[patrkbukly]

I use a 5-gallon Gott insulated water jug for water. I fill it with hot water from the tub before I leave home. The lid isn't very water tight so I have to make sure it won't tip over and nothing really sensitive to water is near by.

Hi Billiski,
So you do not fill the camper with water in it's own tank/plumbing but rather just use the 5 gallon water container?

 

[Beach]

Wallowa you are correct the "canvas" I refer to is a pvc based fabric. I just use the term canvas as a generic.