Rear turnbuckle mount failure on Hallmark Guanella

[Stitch]

I seem to be getting more confused rather than less. Although my mechanic's advice to let the rear leaf springs/ overloads do their job as designed (without putting things in to obstruct their movement) makes sense to me, coulter6 and nobueno seem to feel the stableloads (lower and upper, respectively) tamed the jarring ride. Bad Habit seems to think the uppers actually made the ride more jarring. I'm wondering what I should do - uppers, lowers, or none? The folks at Torklift essentially consider the issue a no-brainer and recommend the lowers over the uppers for our purposes (they do like their company's products! and for what it's worth the company seems to be well run). I'll talk to the metal fabricator/ off-road modification guy tomorrow when I drop the truck off. It'll be a week or two before he's done installing skid plates and repairing turnbuckle mounting points, so there's time yet to ponder.
Any other positive or negative experiences people have had with StableLoads (or other ride-smoothing modifications for rough terrain) would be appreciated.
Thanks!

DoGMAtix,
Have you considered Timbrens? They are dirt simple. When my Guanella is off the truck, there is no contact and the truck rides as stock. When I load the truck with either the camper or a heavy bulk load, they start to come into play. I got these instead of airbags since I really don't need to level the truck with a load. I also avoid the complexity of airbags. They seem to do just fine for me.
If you need to level your truck, then you're not in the same situation and airbags might be a better choice.

 

[DoGMAtix]

Have not heard about timbrens. I suppose if we don't like the ride with air bags and adjustable shocks could consider trying those.

The big news is that the fabricator is back at work and the plates are now ordered. We're going with 3/16 inch steel plates 7" wide and about 2' long on the inside of the camper and 5" wide on the outside for a similar length. One of his employees showed me some cardboard cutouts he'd made as templates, which were too short to adequately span the area of splintered plywood on the driver's side. Apparently the way the fridge is fastened they wouldn't have been able to get the interior plate far enough back to get beyond the damaged plywood without taking the fridge out. So I asked if they could take the fridge out and make a plate that would actually fasten to intact plywood, then put the fridge back in. Seeing's that fridges do get put in and taken out of campers on a fairly regular basis... Looks like an hour and a half of extra labor will suffice. I'm a bit concerned that it never occurred to the guy to suggest taking the fridge out to do the repair right, but in any case I think we're on our way now.
I'll update with photos when we've made significant headway.

 

[Stitch]

Sorry, I thought you were considering air bags. If you have already mounted air bags, Timbrens are not your answer.

 

[Bad Habit]

Seeing's that fridges do get put in and taken out of campers on a fairly regular basis... Looks like an hour and a half of extra labor will suffice. I'm a bit concerned that it never occurred to the guy to suggest taking the fridge out to do the repair right, but in any case I think we're on our way now.

If it really was common sense, it would be more common.

 

[DoGMAtix]

Ok, finally getting close.
Here are some photos of the plates made to repair the blown-out rear turnbuckle mounting points.
The first is the front part of the interior (upper) plate on the driver's side. It's 7" wide and about 2 feet long (to ensure the hole is totally covered and the plate is mounted to structurally sound plywood fore and aft). The plate continues back through a notch in the wall (left side of photo) so that the back part of the plate extends well inside the external mechanical compartment for the fridge (see second photo). The third photo shows the underside of the plate, which is 5" wide and a similar length to the internal plate.
Plates are made of 3/16" steel.
On the passenger's side we've done a similar fix, with the interior (upper) plate continuing through a notch in the wall between the dinette and the closet in order to adequately span the splintered/compromised plywood.
Photo of interior passenger's side plate (will be under dinette cushions) is included last. You can see where that one goes through the bottom of the dividing wall into the cabinet, to give it extra length to reach solid wood in back. The hex-headed bolts will be replaced by carriage bolts so that the bolts can't be felt and the cushions don't get snagged.
Mounting points will be going onto the external plates over the next few days. We've decided not to go with springs since it seems like the system is strong enough to hold some good thumps and the spring seemed to have too much give.
Skid plate has been mounted over the gas tank, and the transfer case should be covered as well by Friday. By the way, it turns out that the shocks (adjustable Ranchos) seem to be in good shape. So we should be road worthy by the weekend. No camping trips coming up soon but I'll take it out onto a dirt road somewhere to test it.
More photos to follow.

 

[OpenSpace]

wow beefy. should do the trick i'd think. thought you were going with an L-shaped bracket?

 

[DoGMAtix]

So did I. But the metal fabricator thought this would be plenty strong enough, and I have to agree. I don't think the plate will deform, it's just a question of whether the plywood has been weakened far enough away from the hole to give way over a much larger area. If the side wall of the camper were structurally sound to fasten the plate to it would add a lot of extra support, but sadly it's not.
Open Space, how did your rig hold up? What did you end up doing with the turnbuckle mounting brackets?

 

[OpenSpace]

Truck did good in DV but I did drive conservatively. Fastguns are spring loaded so I suppose that helps. Did a number of recent upgrades (see post "A Few Upgrades") including 35s with 18" wheels. The motivation for this was to gain tire sidewall so I could air down. Just back from the Desert National Wildlife Refuge and truck killed it out there. Aired down to 35 front 40 back and that seemed like the sweet spot.

Rear turnbuckle mounts I kept stock. I monitor them constantly - so far so good.

 

[DoGMAtix]

The truck is finally done! Here are some pics of the final repairs/reinforcements:
1) Driver's side exterior plate with turnbuckle mounting point attached
2) Close up of mounting point, welded to the plate
3) Interior plate for passenger's side, under the dinette cushions. We switched to carriage bolts to keep the profile low - we don't notice the hardware under the cushions and it doesn't snag.
4) Same plate, where it continues back through a notch at the bottom of the closet "wall" into the rear cabinet.
5) Cotter pin and washer to keep the front turnbuckle from coming unhooked on steep downhill roads when the camper shifts forward (Flint Trail in the Maze District of Canyonlands, eg)

 

[DoGMAtix]

Oh, and did I mention the skid plates we had installed to protect the gas tank and transfer case while we were at it?

 

[Bad Habit]

Finished? Never say finished, if the truck hears you say that, things will start breaking so you show it some attention

Nice job on the skid plates, those look beefy enough to give you some good protection.

I was just pondering a way to add some sort of retaining clip or something for the turnbuckles the other day, that's a good idea, thanks!

 

[smlobx]

Nice work...
A couple of questions.. Are the interior mounting plates installed over the carpet?
Did you put that cotter pin and washer on the turnbuckles yourself? I love that idea.
Love the tank protection! I wish i could find someone near me to do that...

 

[Bad Habit]

Look for Jeep and other offroad shops, many do fabrication and don't stick to just Jeeps for that kind of work. they'll understand what your after and probably have a lot of good suggections

 

[DoGMAtix]

You're right, Bad Habit. There will be more (hopefully minor) catastrophes along the road and the end will undoubtedly be a tragic one in a God-forsaken wash in the middle of nowhere. But for now we're looking pretty solid and are ready for another season of seeing where our truck/camper can get us to.

Smlobx: Mounting plates are installed over the carpet. You could cut out a section of carpet to mount the plates more cleanly and have them sit a bit closer to flush with the carpet surface beneath the cushions. Maybe we'll do that to ours now that you mention it. I will have to at least make a mental note to tighten the carriage bolts when we've driven it a bit, the carpet will probably compress some.
The metal fabricator drilled the holes for the cotter pins. I didn't ask how he did it exactly, but I suspect he used some kind of industrial drill press and vice. I would have probably injured myself trying to work that out with a small vice and hand held power drill.
It's a shame if you don't have a metal fabricator who specializes in off road vehicles in your area. Our local shop is fantastic. The 4x4 supply place everybody goes to will only install factory-made stuff. Fortunately, they don't hesitate to refer people to the fabricator when custom work needs to be done.
By the way, Dodge doesn't offer factory-made skid plates for their 2500s(!). Even if they did, the plates truck manufacturers make tend to be pretty wimpy for serious off roading.

So to summarize our experience (thus far!) for the benefit of others:
If we'd known before what we know now, we'd have scrapped the original plates and had some larger and stronger ones made. Could probably do that without going to a specialty metal fabricator, although getting the parts cut and drilled and welded for self-install would probably not have cost much. Without the damage we wouldn't make plates as big as the ones we have now, but at least long enough to reach the back of the dinette bench and the under-stove cabinet (maybe 10-12" long?) and probably the 7" width we now have. Strong steel turnbuckle mounts welded to the underside plates also seem like a no-brainer.
We'll do our best to dial in the suspension (adjustable shocks and air bags) and religiously air down tires to minimize shock-loading of the anchoring points. And we'll keep the rear turnbuckles just snug enough so that the rear of the camper doesn't jump up and down in the bed on bumpy roads.
But we're not going to dial back the ruggedness of the roads we drive. Quite the opposite. We fully intend to keep living and learning. And our truck/camper will undoubtedly be getting more of that attention it so desperately wants!

 

[DoGMAtix]

...just in case anyone was wondering whether all this breaking and fixing and breaking and fixing is really worth it...

 

[OpenSpace]

Nice, plates and pics look great! And cherish every day with the little ones. You'll blink and they'll be all grown up.

 

[Happyjax]

That looks worth it to me

 

[smlobx]

Fantastic pics! I wish I had been able to do this when my kids were younger and get them off the pavement!

 

[meandmydog]

Hello DoGMAtix from Farmington, NM. I've been following your thread with a lot of interest. I bought my 2nd Hallmark Ute last fall and have been reading all the posts on this web site along with a lot of others for ideas for solar upgrades and anything else. I'll have to look at my mounts to see where they are on the Ute and what they look like. I like the idea of upgrading before they blow out. I grew up in Albuq. and still visit quite often as most of my family still lives there. Can you tell me who the fabricator is? I might have to bring him some more business.

 

[DoGMAtix]

Maverick Auto and Fabrication on High st just off Candelaria right in the middle of town. Will is the owner and he's a very skilled and thoughtful guy who does serious modifications to off road vehicles. No job too big or small. I imagine your Ute's mounting points will be similar to our Guanella's. You can probably find the plates if you look around (or feel under the dinette carpeting), or just call Hallmark and ask Bill. I'd give Will (at Maverick) a call while our job is still fresh in his mind.

I'll get around to solar one of these days, for now we're managing on the charge we get from shore charging and driving. I did talk to Bill about doing our own solar wiring while we were getting the camper mounted in their factory (he showed me how they route the wires), and it seems like a reasonably easy/ straightforward process. I just don't know that I want a heavy panel mounted on the roof with our manual lift, and I'm told lightweight panel technology is improving quickly. In the mean time I think my next project will be to prepare the camper for a portable panel we can set outside optimally directed toward the sun on the rare occasions we will be camped in one place long enough to need to top up our batteries. Please post if you do a home solar project on your Hallmark, though, the more info we have going into our project the better!