Refurbishing 1993 Dodge Ram W250 1st Gen Diesel - Seeking Advice (status update)

[ckent323]

I am close to starting a major refurbishment of my 1993 Dodge Ram LE ClubCab Diesel W250 Long Bed pickup that has about 375,000 miles on it.

I am seeking ways to improve the suspension and ride as well as damp the sound in the cab and welcome suggestions from anyone who has relevant experience with these trucks.

Current plans include:

• Remove bed and replace with customized bed having fold down side access doors to wheel well space storage
• Remove cab interior including dash then paint cab inside and out
• Install sound damping in floor, firewall, doors, ceiling and back wall as well as under the hood. (anyone have experience with sound damping on the valve covers?)
• Repair or replace OEM "captains chair " reclining seats. Possible options include Recaro Expert M and Othoped or equivalent
• Replace headliner and carpeting
• Add 12 v outlet for refrigerator behind front seats
• Add 12 V USB outlets
• Reinstall dash
• Remove, clean, inspect and replace as necessary front end steering components (ball joints, bushings, arms etc)
• Repair or replace Borgeson steering shaft (steering gear may be worn)
• Rebuild front leaf springs with new bushings or replace (anyone have experience with parabolic springs and or better elastomeric bushings? - I have read mixed reviews on the paraboilic springs)
• Rebuild rear leaf springs with new bushings (or replace)
• Upgrade Monroe shocks to gas reservoir shocks to stand up to washboard roads (would use Bilstein 5100 or 7100 but they don't have any listed for this model - looking for substitute)
• Install tru-trac rear differential
• Replace leaking intercooler
• Install transmission and differential temperature gauges
• New Aluminum front bumper
• New custom aluminum rear bumper with swing away spare tire mount and swing away storage box.
• Add front camera (already have a backup camera and 7" rear view mirror monitor which will accept two camera inputs and switch between them)
• Add LED fog and driving lights

Edit: forgot to list skid plates for the front differential/engine/trans and the rear differential.

 

[Vic Harder]

my kind of project!

For sound dampening, consider taking the door skins off, and adding damping to the sheet metal and the door skins. Add damping to floor, firewall, headliner and on the back wall (inside) of the cab.

Don't put damping on the valve cover gaskets. The tar/glue would melt. But you could put damping on the hood and fender liners.

This all adds weight.

 

[ntsqd]

FWIW I had a Dana clutch type LSD installed in our '95 and I couldn't be happier. Rarely chirps a tire and I've never known it to allow a tire to slip.
Some prep had been done to it prior to my buying it. Case bolts were replaced with G8's that had been drilled for safety wire. Prior to taking it to Ruben for install I thoroughly cleaned the bolt holes, applied red Lock-tite to the bolt threads, torqued them to max torque for a plated G8 with waxed threads (figured wax's Cf was closest to that of lock-tite), and then safety wired them.

No experience with parabolic springs, not even sure what that really means - suspect its merely marketing, but have had experience with the 63" long GM rear springs in other applications. A distinctive feature of these springs is a shim between leaves at the center bolt of roughly the same size as th spring perch. This reduces the internal friction in the spring significantly as the shims are the same thickness as the plastic tip sliders creating an air gap between each leaf and its neighbors. Had to go from a 255/70 Bils 7100 valve stack to a 275/78 valve stack. I know those numbers don't seem all that different, but the difference represents the loss of 'damping' in the spring itself due to friction. I had planned to experiment with adding such shims to the OME rear springs for the Tow'd, but I've decided (after making & installing the shims) that the OME springs will lift the truck higher than I want.

A friend had Deaver build him some nice springs for his '92 CTD std cab. He was working out which Bils 7100 length to employ when baby No. 1 made a std cab impractical. If they only need bushings and haven't lost ride height then a rebuild of sorts is OK. If they've lost ride height I've yet to find a reputable spring house willing rebuild the Tow'd's rear springs.
With std leaf springs you can likely go with the std. 255/70 valving and be fine on all 4 corners. I have, with long lasting success, removed the spherical bearings from Bils 7100's and replaced them with urethane bushings. Much quieter that way.

In the remote reservoir universal application 7100's there is the "short body" option. These are 2" shorter overall than the std bodied dampers in each stroke length. These used to be ab "in the know, special order" sort of thing but they're getting better known & likely have a p/n these days. The thing that makes the short body option possible is that the non remote res dampers have the divider piston above the shaft piston. With a remote res that divider piston is moved to the reservoir, so the damper main body can be 2" shorter for the same stroke length.

No experience yet, but a friend has used Lizardskin products on his Scout 80 build. I plan to use it on the Bronc-up, even if it ends up being only the base layer under some other heat & noise insulation. In the rear of the Tow'd I have lined the rear sheet metal with first a butyl noise product off amazon followed by some self-adhesive "Frost-King" closed cell foam with a thick aluminum foil skin. It has made a big difference in the rear, need to open up the doors and line them next.

Paint under/behind the dash a light color! This is huge if you ever have to work under there for any reason. I've long used Krylon Universal Gray for areas like this.

I can see where a patch of mass loading product applied to the flats of the rocker covers could quiet things down, but most of the idle noise are the injectors. Not sure there a product rated high enough in temperature for that application. I wonder if the effort would be worthwhile. If you don't still have that sheet metal piece across the top of all of them you might find a replacement. It is my understanding that engine noise is the real reason for that part.

Never really worried about diff temps. In HD applications I use Redline gear oil and move on. Trans temp is a different story. Of course that is the only gauge not working after rebuilding the whole dash in our truck. Figuring out how best to manage the trans with the OD kill switch has made a huge difference in trans temps. Our trans will lock the converter in 2nd when the OD is turned off. This is huge for pulling steep grades (like CA168 east out of Big Pine) w/o the trans getting too warm.

 

[2trout]

Ckent,

I spent some time looking into purchasing a used diesel as a vehicle to haul our then future camper. I wanted a quiet diesel however.

If I remember correctly, there is quite a bit of info out there about attempting to quiet older diesel pickups, and i think that most seem to say that a lot of time and energy and sometimes money was spent for a marginal result. I believe that the current diesels that a so quiet are the result of specific engine timing and not dampening technology.

I suspect that you have investigated this thought, but is a 1993 at 370,000 miles (even a diesel) worthy of the time and expense?

Trout

 

[ckent323]

ntsqd,

Thanks for the detailed response. I need to read more carefully but I am seeing useful info.


2trout,

The following is probably going to come across like a commercial or an evangelist response - but these are my thoughts based on owning this truck since 1999 when it had 120,000 miles on it.

It is my opinion that the 1993 1st gen Dodge diesels are the most reliable Dodge has made to date. My truck is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned by a large margin. These engines were rated for the first rebuild at 350,000 mi and many have gone over 800,000 to 1,000,000 miles without a rebuild. The downside to these trucks is that they are somewhat noisy and they have a stiff ride (reduced somewhat when the camper is on). Also the paint job was not great and is now coming off. I have long said that the body and suspension will fall apart before the drive train. So in my opinion the answer is unequivocally Yes it is worth rebuilding particularly considering that an equivalent new Dodge would run about $60,000 or more and I am pretty sure I can refurbish this one and add some goodies for $20,000 - perhaps less. ;-)

 

[shellback]

I bought a Dodge W250 with the Cummins new in 1989. First trip with the wife, " why did they put a radio in this, you can't even hear it?" LOL! I had an excavating business at the time and it was a great truck for that purpose, but it sure was noisy and road like a buckboard. The early 12 valve Cummins is a great motor. If I remember correctly, mine was rated at 160HP and 400 Ft lbs of torque. Good luck with your endeavor.

 

[Squatch]

That truck of your's was my dream truck for many years. Never could find a clean one I could afford here. Not much to go wrong with a mechanically injected Cummins. Same for the reliability. Dodge pretty much made the same truck and chassis from '72-'93. Most everything is interchangeable. I'll offer up my '80 Powerwagon as an example. This truck had been in the family almost since new. I got it old an beat up with a rebuilt motor conversion.


'80 Dodge Powerwagon (last year Powerwagon made)
'66 Dodge 383 big Block from a Charger
Stock NP435 4 granny 4 speed w NP 208 Transfer case
'87 Dodge Dana 60 front axle from a truck like yours 4.10
'78 Dodge Dana 70 rear axle from a 2wd 4.10
4 inch Skyjacker lift with steering correction block and factory sway bar that came with front axle
6" rear springs and a shorter block than stock
Skyjacker nitro shocks.
Ramsey 8,000 lb worm gear front winch
35x12.50x16.5 General MT's

I drove this truck for years on road and off. it would climb anything with a 30" log chained to the back bumper. I used it for a tractor when wood cutting a lot.

It had close to 400k miles on it when I sold it and as far as I know it's still on the road. I sold it to a Mopar Nuts kid who promptly repainted it and started driving it daily.

You might check with Skyjacker on springs. I was way Impressed with my soft ride system. They allowed me to mix and match parts to fit what I wanted. It rode very nice considering the unsprung weight on this small truck. The main thing I felt was the axle weight. When I added the lift and axles the truck gained over 700 lbs!

It's my understanding that going to a multi leaf pack with lot's of thinner leaves will support the same weight but ride better. That used to be National Springs way of doing it with custom packs.

If your truck was mine I'd rebuild it and keep it forever!

Dynamat or similar on any hidden steel inside the cab and doors. Under the hood. On top the inner fenders. Both sides of the firewall. Then lay the factory floor insulation back on top of that.

Good luck on this project and post pics as you go!
As far as skid plate you should be able with some searching to find factory ones that fit. The "camper specials" had a big steel skid plate under the trans and transfer. I think some Ramchargers had them as well. They "CS" also had rear tanks of 21 gals that go where the spare hangs. I found a '79 Camper Special that had these and pulled them for my Powerwagon. Remember the chassis were basically the same from 72-93. Actually it's really back to '61 except pre '72 had shorter front springs.

Mag Hitech makes nice diff covers for extra capacity. They have sight glasses to check the level and are sensor ready if you want that.



Why does this site add that extra junk when you edit sometimes?

 

[ckent323]

Squatch,

Thanks!

You have a nice truck. Good tip on the skid plates. I downloaded a bunch of info on sound damping from the web so studying that. Seems there are effective and cheaper ways to go than Dynamat.

My 93 year old Dad still has his 1963 Dodge Double cab 4WD 383 cu in W200 with camper (former Santa Cruz Island ranch truck). The camper is pretty much shot but the truck is still in good shape (gas hog though).

 

[ckent323]

Update;

• Intercooler replaced
• Radiator replaced
• A./C condenser replaced
• Suspension and drive train inspected - no issues
• Sound damping material from Sound Deadener Showdown has been added to the roof of the cab and a new headliner has been installed Ref: https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
• USB outlets have been added to the passenger side of the dash in front of the center consolle.
• A Waterproof Fuse Relay Boxhas been added Ref: https://www.facebook.com/pg/Waterproof-Fuse-Relay-Box-1391112501215493/posts/?ref=page_internal
• A set of four rocker switches (connected to the switch relay box) have been installed in place of the cab light switch. These switches control the cab light (converted to LED as well as future driving lights and LED off road lights
• A Pyle 7200 backup camera system has been installed
• A pickup bed is in the process of being modified to add storage fore and aft of the wheel wells as well as over the cut down wheel wells. The sides are yest to bed modified for fold down panel access to the storage area.
• A Podman dash gauge pod has been added with ISSPRO EGT, Boost and Fuel pressure gauges
• A Blue Sea ML-ACR relay has been installed with a remote control switch mounted in the dash on the door side of the steering wheel

More sound damping ,seat repair, shocks, cargo bed mod, etc still in work

 

[KevinsOffroad]

Congrats on the progress thus far!! Totally agreed with your assessment in post #5 about the reliability of this truck. We came to the same conclusion...and purchased a 1994 (2nd Gen) version of the exact same truck...2500 w/ 8800 GVW, Dana 60/70, 12v Cummins, etc. **LOVE** this thing...and yes, it's quite noisy in the cab...so I appreciate your Sound Deadener Showdown link, and I'm subscribing for your updates.

Keep up the great work! -K

 

[slus]

Awesome project. I've seen pictures of your truck before, but I'd like to see some more as you're fixing it up.

The old diesels are great. If I didn't absolutely need a crew cab for my big, old dogs that we take everywhere, your exact truck would be at the top of my list. My old crew cab 7.3 F350 will have to get me by until I have the time to find one of those super rare 1st gen Dodge crew cabs to fix up, repaint white, and Cummins swap. There is actually a few of them around my area, all faded blue, which leads me to believe they are ex-USAF rigs sold off from nearby Beale AFB.

You're right about the newer diesels, I also have a new MegaCab Cummins. It has none of the character and much much more to fail than the old trucks. Nice rig, tows great, just nothing like the old rigs. I'd camp out at the dealer to buy a simple bare bones mechanical diesel truck with crank windows, vinyl floors and manual locks, lots of us would, but emissions regs will never let it happen. So good choice refurbishing what you have.

 

[ckent323]

I have some pictures of the various parts of the project I need to transfer over from my phone.

As soon as I get a little more time I will post them.

I am presently installing the sound damping material on the floor of the truck cab and the cargo box mod is coming along nicely.

 

[wagoneer]

I had a choice when I bought the 1995 2500 cummins for 7K US with a free Six-Pac cabove and 98k miles r he also had a 1992 with 52k original miles for 7k US. I went for comfort. the 92 was very uncomfortable, I am an old F%%k

 

[wagoneer]

2nd gen has the KDP better known as the "killer dowel pin" got that done asap it was 1/8" out.

 

[ckent323]

Before adding the sound damping material I made several rips around town and on the freeway using an App on my iphone to measure noise levels.


Unmodified:
At idle windows up - 71 - 72 db
Around town normal driving. Up to 85 db
on freeway 55 mph 86 - 87 db
on freeway 75 mph ~90 db average with short term spikes up to 100 db


With the sound damping from Sound Deadener Showdown material installed in the cab roof I saw no noticeable decrease. My guess is a 1 or 2 db change would be lost in the overall loud noise of the truck that was averaging 90 db at freeway speeds.


After adding sound damping material on floor and back wall (along with the ceiling) the noise at idle is about the same as unmodified but at 55 mph it is 81 - 82 db
at 75 mph it is about 86 db.

That is significant. It is quieter by about 4 db although it does not seem half as loud. That is is consistent with the observation that 3db doubles the sound intensity but a 10dB increase is required before a sound is perceived to be twice as loud (or inversely a -3db change is half the sound intensity but a -10db change is required for it to seem half as loud).

I am hoping that after installing sound damping material in the doors and extended cab sides I will have the sound level at 75 mph down to 82 or 83 db.

If I cannot get to at least 82 db then I will also add sound damping material under the hood. There is a factory sound damping mat attached to the hood but I am not sure how good it is.

My overall goal is to get the noise level at or below 80 db in the cab even at 75 mph.

 

[ckent323]

Recaro Expert M or Perhaps Othopaed electric seats (or Scheel- Mann Vario Seats) are on my list of mods to improve ride comfort.

Still not sure which way I will go with suspension improvement. Probably reservoir shocks like Bilstein 700 series and new elastomeric bushings for the leaf springs. Because I go off road with the camper I have no interest in air bags that can and do fail (based on reading a lot of reviews).

 

[Vic Harder]

Before adding the sound damping material I made several rips around town and on the freeway using an App on my iphone to measure noise levels.


Unmodified:
At idle windows up - 71 - 72 db
Around town normal driving. Up to 85 db
on freeway 55 mph 86 - 87 db
on freeway 75 mph ~90 db average with short term spikes up to 100 db


With the sound damping from Sound Deadener Showdown material installed in the cab roof I saw no noticeable decrease. My guess is a 1 or 2 db change would be lost in the overall loud noise of the truck that was averaging 90 db at freeway speeds.


After adding sound damping material on floor and back wall (along with the ceiling) the noise at idle is about the same as unmodified but at 55 mph it is 81 - 82 db
at 75 mph it is about 86 db.

That is significant. It is quieter by about 4 db although it does not seem half as loud. That is is consistent with the observation that 3db doubles the sound intensity but a 10dB increase is required before a sound is perceived to be twice as loud (or inversely a -3db change is half the sound intensity but a -10db change is required for it to seem half as loud).

I am hoping that after installing sound damping material in the doors and extended cab sides I will have the sound level at 75 mph down to 82 or 83 db.

If I cannot get to at least 82 db then I will also add sound damping material under the hood. There is a factory sound damping mat attached to the hood but I am not sure how good it is.

My overall goal is to get the noise level at or below 80 db in the cab even at 75 mph.

That's a great report Kent. And a worthy project. I may have to do the same. Do you have a wind blocker/fairing yet? I am amazed at the sound level difference. Which app on you iPhone? I have a real dB meter, but I'd have to be looking at it while driving to get good readings... does your app create a graph? A or C weighted?

 

[ckent323]

Vic,

I have two different sound level apps on my phone. Decibel x and Decibels. They seem to give equivalent results. Decibels uses a simulated analog meter display. It is basic.

Decibel x has avg, instantaneous and max db levels as well as a simulated analog meter, It also has a histogram of the noise. It has some settings for frequency weighting (A, B, C, Z), response time, speed, graphing options, etc There is a calibration setting and a history log

Decibel x is my go to sound level app. I have been using Z weighting for my measurements.

I do not have a wind fairing - yet. Hoping to get one on soon.


Presently working on multiple projects simultaneously prepping for our departure for Anchorage, AK on Aug 22. Some of the mods such as the suspension improvements will not be started/completed in time for this trip. This will be an on pavement trip.

Route North will be via Vancouver, BC - Sea to Sky hwy to Stewart- Cassiar to TOK to Anchorage then return via Alcan HWY via Jasper, Banff, Glacier.

We are towing a 16 foot long Wells Cargo enclosed trailer with two railroad track inspection cars (one is mine the other belongs to a friend who will be driving up in his 93 Dodge W250 truck with 1984 Keystone) we will be operating the cars on the entire length of the Alaska railroad.

The trip is listed under excursion calendar - future excurasions here:

http://www.narcoa.org/



Regards,

Craig

 

[ntsqd]

I would stay with rubber bushings in the springs. Urethane either squeaks now or it will eventually. It is usually higher durometer than rubber as well.

If the ultimate ride is desired I'd have a look at an air ride base for whatever seat you choose.

Leaf springs can be supple, but it takes significant effort to reduce their internal friction to make them so.

In Bilstein 7100's there are technically 3 versions. The std version, the remote reservoir version, and the short body remote reservoir version. The latter is not available in all stroke lengths.
In the 516X series there may be a damper tuned specifically to fit your truck. That is what we have on our '95 and I like them. They just work, and I've pushed them pretty hard at times. The only time I've ever felt them start to go away with heat was bailing out of Hole in the Rock on a deadline.

 

[ckent323]

ntsqd,

Thanks - I appreciate the input. I don't know much about suspensions.

All I know is that it would be nice to be able to smooth out the ride in the 93 Dodge a bit. That would make Wendie happier. ;-)

The suspension upgrades are going to happen after we return from Alaska, I am already worried the custom cargo bed for the truck is not going to be ready in time - fingers crossed though but it is going to be close.