Research on PopUp Campers

[Idahostat]

Hello Group

I am working on a list of popup campers ( Hallmark, Outfitter, "X" ).

So if this thread already exists kindly point me. If not, well help please if you know.

Seeking change over dates and information as what was done before and after a "year"

Example from conversation via telephone ( yes I am old ) I know that Hallmark changed their roof from the TPO type to the current fiberglass in 2008, roof could be ordered either old or new material in 2008, after 2008 fiberglass.

Example from reading from Outfitter site that 2014 is when they changed to their "composite body", what was done before that ( method, materials and such ).

Northstar salesman with whom I spoke referred to the "HECO" mechanical lift common on lots of soup campers prior to 2008, the HECO company was bought and the brand deteriorated as quality control "changed" ( I am being diplomatic here ) and several other manufacturers of mechanical lifts found on other ( not Northstar ) campers simple closed down/disappeared.

I expect/plan to visit Outfitter and Hallmark, and possibly Phoenix end of July and ask questions, they may or may not be forthcoming of history for a variety of reasons.

Asking the second owner of something used ( I expect to buy used, except for Phoenix which I do not seriously expect to find used or fit my truck if actually encountering a used Phoenix camper ) can be iffy/questionable knowledge wise about what they private owner ( RV dealers may or may not be more/less knowledgeable of product on their lot ) have for sale. I might get lucky but I do tend improve my probabilities by prior inquiry, research.

Lots of experience here in general on WTW, several members have owned multiple campers over the last decade(s). Can you summarize for me and future checkers, seems like if "we" can do this it would be a worthy "sticky" for reference.

Thanks Terence

 

[Bigfoot]

The campers you mention are all pretty good, as are Four Wheel Camper, All Terrain Camper, Alaskan and probably some others. Much depends on preference and budget. If you are buying used then that narrows it down to availability. We researched several brands in 2013 (phone, in person and talking to owners) and liked the construction, options and build schedule that Hallmark offered. That might be different today.

 

[Dphillip]

If your going to be in Colorado to visit the Hallmark and Oufitter factories I'd suggest you make the short drive down to Denver and see Chris at Rocky Mountain Four Wheel Campers. We made that drive from Omaha 5 years ago and visited all three places. We loved the 4W Campers because of the lightweight, simplicity and the craftsmanship is outstanding. We ordered one from Chris, he's a great guy, a real outdoorsman that uses his camper on this custom Tacoma regularly. We've had some great adventures in our 4W Camper Hawk, the fun factor is off the scale.

 

[Idahostat]

Thanks for the response. I have visited Four Wheel in California, also Alaska in Washington. Now aware of Rocky Mountain in Denver. Thank you.

Now back to my list of change over dates so I can ask "potentially" useful questions about what to look for in campers of the "popUp" variety.

Anyone know when various manufacturers have implemented changes to their models as I referenced above, points of failure in equipment, structural components ( stick and staple to aluminum say? ).

 

[ntsqd]

If they could tell me or the year of mfg on the sticker was still legible I could provide a data point for an aluminum framed Phoenix. The best we've been able to do in dating our camper is sometime post 2000, but not by a lot.

 

[smlobx]

I know that Hallmark, and I would suspect the other major players, are constantly improving their product and as such there is not necessarily a change starting with a particular model year.

As you mentioned with Hallmark, their carbon fiberglass roof change was a major one and is IMHO the best roof on the market. Also their Superlift lifting mechanism is probably the best in the business as well. I know that until the last few years they had several different mechanism that you could choose from but I believe they have gone to this one exclusively now.

If you find a particular unit that appeals to you and post some information here there are probably a few people who have one that is close enough to give you some specific feedback.

 

[Happyjax]

Bundutec USA might be a good possibility. It is owned by Rory Willet, whose father owns Northstar and he retired from there got bored and opened up a US version of the campers.

Windy from WTW bought one and loves it. They do custom.
Definitely worth an email. I have conversed with them and they are on the short list. They seem very willing to work to make the camper what you need

 

[Idahostat]

HappyJax:I have looked at the Bundutec site and as I have no first hand experience as a "new" to this I can only do "abstract" comparisons ( visiting manufacturers, and observations at 2015 Flagstaff Overland dog & pony show certainly helped ). Bundutec looks comparable to my "current" Hallmark, Outfitter favorites.

Smlobx:My rational for this was to help myself and possibly provide for anyone else doing research about buying used so they can best estimate what they would be reading about/looking at in the used market and so as to value/evaluate.

Good for the manufacturers to find new and innovative ( found that Hallmark has a patent on one of their lift mechanisms as an example ), some of us take more risks buying, doing, going and just trying "things" out. My truck arrives next week. So late July is likely for my visit to greater Denver area. Thanks for your responses from the both of you. If I find something for sale and owner is not knowledgeable and not in a hurry I will ask on this forum or one of the other forum on WTW.

 

[smlobx]

Idahostat what truck are you getting?

One thing you might want to keep in mind is that regardless of the brand and the stated weight of the camper it will in all likelihood weigh more that that.

 

[Bill D]

Too bad there isn't a wiki page from each manufacturer because this is essentially what you need. Best of luck, it's an ambitious task.

Given the limited supply vs. high demand of used popups, one is considered lucky to find a unit that fits their truck at a fair price in their area. This is where in depth knowledge would certainly come in handy to make a quick decision.

 

[ntsqd]

When I found our Phoenix in CL local to us I was ON IT! I knew it wouldn't last long.

 

[Idahostat]

Idahostat what truck are you getting?

One thing you might want to keep in mind is that regardless of the brand and the stated weight of the camper it will in all likelihood weigh more that that.

Hello smlobx ( Eddie )

In my signature line I reference a Ford F350. I ordered a XL with the camper/snow plow prep, FX4, crew cab, LB with the diesel engine option ( 2017 as a 48 gallon fuel tank ). It has arrived at the dealer, so after the 4th and allowing for credit union paper and wind drift I expect to start "learning" it nuances. Door sticker says 4164 so approximately 2Tons. If I follow ( attempt 80% rule ) I have been looking at wet camper "estimates" in the 2400-3000 range. Reading others and what they have done and un-done, I know to take things with a bag of salt and the used market with patience ( I e-mailed CL listing for a used Outfitter asking after if he new any details of his unit, had no ( materials, construction ) clue other than the model and the year so I proceed with care )).

 

[Idahostat]

Too bad there isn't a wiki page from each manufacturer because this is essentially what you need. Best of luck, it's an ambitious task.

Given the limited supply vs. high demand of used popups, one is considered lucky to find a unit that fits their truck at a fair price in their area. This is where in depth knowledge would certainly come in handy to make a quick decision.

Bill D

Yes it is somewhat ambitious, however my interest is in minimizing my mistakes and maximizing my knowledge so as to move along toward a suitable camper. My problems tend to be historically I tend over research ( I have the time and "some" patience ), being cheap and poor in the past I tried to "do or fix" many things ( so some skills ) my tendency is to "Buy" that $1300 Jayco and make it work, however I now live in an apartment with limited tools and parking, so I have walk away from those "deals" so that $7500 to $25K brand X may be a wiser move so I can also ask "where does that road go" as opposed to where do I scrounge a HECO acme threaded whatsit! I appreciate the chase but maybe I should just relax go for a drive instead.

 

[Happyjax]

Idahostat,

I have spent most of my life fixing my own stuff. Dad grew up in the depression and was dirt poor as a kid so he fixed everything and I learned it from him.

I was thinking about buying used or a shell and modifying everything to suit me.

Not a bad plan but I am older now and want to spend more time enjoying my camper then working on it.

I guess that is why it has taken me so long and now I am leaning towards those who will build what I want.

I get where you come from but maybe it's time for us to let go and just have fun

Either way you have the right people here to help you find your way

 

[Idahostat]

Idahostat,

I have spent most of my life fixing my own stuff. Dad grew up in the depression and was dirt poor as a kid so he fixed everything and I learned it from him.

I was thinking about buying used or a shell and modifying everything to suit me.

Not a bad plan but I am older now and want to spend more time enjoying my camper then working on it.

I guess that is why it has taken me so long and now I am leaning towards those who will build what I want.

I get where you come from but maybe it's time for us to let go and just have fun

Either way you have the right people here to help you find your way

Thanks Happyjax

Having spent "lots" of time mending, improvising and asking others for their experience(s) on how they did something over the decades and I have some monies put aside so rather than another project of "yeah, I can 'probably" fix/replace whatever, I just seek the least problematic popup camper to "wander" the west in and YES their is a google of experience around the WTW ( with also TOS ) so I ask and maybe I shall receive ( answers, well maybe...).

 

[Idahostat]

Group Question

Assuming I survive my "echo cardiogram" ( expected ), I will be off to look and ask questions of Hallmark and Outfitter in Colorado. Kindly express your experience in "what" questions too ask about used campers, for those of you who have done this type of purchase what did you look for?

Inspect for?

Stress points ( I have read DoGMatix Hallmark Guanella "Rear turnbuckle mount failure", twice )

What wears out?

I have e-mailed several people about their used Hallmark and Outfitter campers ( mostly Craig's list and RVTrader derived ) and most do not relate any problems but most do not know or at least answer questions concerning structural ( is your model/vintage a stick and staple frame? or aluminum framed?, I do understand if it is the second or third owner of the aforementioned campers that I am corresponding with as they did not remember if they asked the party from which they purchased the camper they are now trying to sell, or it seemed fine to them.

What items see frequent replacement? IE water pumps, compressors, in older HECO lifts, gears seem to "wear" or perhaps the specification was "loose" in the manufacturing process, this is mostly derived from reading a lot of posts on multiple forums.

I have not found a basic FAQ ( kindly point/link if you know of one, please ) on things to inspect and expect to find on used campers.

Terence

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Here's a thread that might help answer some of your questions. It's FWC focused, but much will cross over.

http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/6535-the-ultimate-four-wheel-camper-buyers-guide/

 

[Idahostat]

Wandering Sagebrush

Thanks, I will read it over, there is bound to be some cross over in the general sense I would think.

Again very useful, other than the out of date weblinks, basic is fine. As a note "SearchTempest is still functional as I just tried it out and it did report back on several Hallmark, Outfitter and a couple of Phoenix which I seldom see ( one 8' and for me a rare 9.5' )

So good points for checking in and around a 'used" camper.

T.

 

[michgoblue]

I have purchased two used pop-ups, one 30 years old and one 9 years old. For both I had to replace the converter/charger, refrigerator, cushions and mattress, as well as clean and spray the vinyl down with 303 to get it properly sealed.

On the older one I also had to replace the water pump and much of the water line (both fill and drain) along with fittings to the water tank. The older one had 2 x 220ah 6v batteries so I didn't replace them, but on the newer one I replaced the deep cycle it came with with a VMAX 155ah battery. I also added MPPT controllers and solar panels.

All of the above was pretty easy to do. On the newer camper I had to chase down some leaks in the roof and that was more challenging than all of the stuff I did above. This one thing got me thinking maybe I made a mistake selling the old camper since it was perfectly dry and leak free.

12DC systems, water systems, and even propane systems are easy to fix or update. Water damage and leaks are a whole lot harder in my opinion to deal with, so that would be my focus when picking up a used camper. In addition, any unusual lifting systems where the cables/controls/hydraulics are hard to get to would be also something I would closely inspect. Most everything else either you can readily do or pretty easily find someone you can pay to do. With a leak its really hard to know for sure when you get it all taken care of properly, and if your repair will last.

 

[MTCK]

Just my $0.02. When looking for a used pop up, they came and went very quickly. Originally I wanted a grandby, but expanded my search to include other brands and longer options. When a 16 year old Cuchara posted 400 miles away, I called the guy and he had all the right answers. Maintenance was done on the roof, no leaks, systems worked, no structural or siding damage. I went to inspect with cash in hand and paid full asking price. I had to do some cleaning, and will have to continue the maintenance, but got into a fully functional and well-kept camper for $7k instead of $40k for a new one. The seller had five other folks waiting to see it if I passed.