Revisiting heavy duty trucks

[Hausa]

I know there's multiple threads discussing the pros and cons of truck size, fuel type, etc. so I'll try not to rehash those topics. I'm hoping to get some advice before making a big purchase.

I'm still shopping for a truck and camper, and I've pretty much boiled it down to a 1 ton diesel, crew cab, long bed. I like the fuel efficiency, turbo at altitude, and driving distance before refuel of the diesel; and I can get over the fact that it will likely be pricier to own and maintain. Crew cab for the growing family and dogs, and long bed for the same reason. I'm looking for a used truck with <50k miles, something to hold on to for a while.

So my questions are:

1) Any benefit from doing a 3/4 ton instead of a 1 ton? It seems like the 1 ton isn't much more expensive, same fuel efficiency, and going over the listed payload capacity won't be an issue. Does the 3/4 ton ride noticeably different? I should note that i'm also shopping for used campers and while i'm most interested in a grandby, i think i'd be happy with an alaskan, northstar, hallmark where that extra payload would be put to use.

2) Anyone feel strongly about which heavy duty diesel is the best fit for a camper? No need to rehash the chevy vs ram vs ford arguments, but it does seem like there's a lot of love in this community for the ram/cummins. Any camper specific reasons why the ram is so well represented?

Thanks ahead for any input! I've really enjoyed searching through this forum for all sorts of interesting (and sometimes useful) information.

P.S. if anyone's selling a grandby semi-close to southwest montana I'm interested.

 

[XJINTX]

I can only post that I moved from a 1/2 ton Nissan Titan 4x4 to my current 3/4 ton 2009 F250 Superduty 4x4. I will never go back to 1/2 ton for camper or towing. That said my next truck will be a 1 ton. Not sure if I will stay with Ford as I like the new Dodges but no decision yet. My 2015 Hawk was made for a Ford higher cab so may stay with Ford unless my better half lets us go flatbed

ONLY reason I want the 1 ton is I feel that sometimes when camper fully loaded and towing my jeep I'm close to max. I'm always of the belief bigger is better and probably safer NOTE I have never had any issues with the 3/4 ton for any reason.

 

[Beach]

Same as Xjintx. I went from a 06 access cab to a f250 4x4 gasser. While i feel that I now have enough truck, I would consider a 1 ton next time around. 3/4 ton can sometimes feel like it is maxed out when you hit a big dip in the road at speed(road/bridge transition etc). 1 ton would give you that extra capacity to carry the trailer tongue weight also.

 

[Bombsight]

Been rolling with a GMC 3500 Denali Sierra Duramax with BDS 6.5" LIFT for over a year now. I put Firestone air bags on it and it stopped all of the "Bucking" forward and backwards. On a scale of improvement 1-10? It is a solid 7! The rig is solid except for a slight rear end sway when changing lanes quickly. I'm going to install a Hellwig "Big wig" sway bar on the rear and then it should ride like I want it to. My bed is 6.5' long and I have a fully equipped Hawk. I cant imagine anything less than a 1 ton being safe on todays higher speed highways .... much less holding up to long term, serious off road excursions. I tend to overkill everything I build but I want to be done with it once built. The only things I don't like about being a diesel owner are the need for DEF, the possibility of water at fuel pumps being all to common and the filth of EVERY pump handle. Diesel users are some NASTY people! I keep a pair of thick rubber gloves on the rear floor inside for that reason. I think a lot of people choose the Dodge because of the cost of the overall rig (Truck, camper and everything else needed). Imho, a motor (Cummins) isn't worth much if its not getting you from point A to point B .... and over the long haul, a complete pkg is what we need unless we don't mind buying a new truck every ten years. Cummins, Powerstroke or Duramax ... they're all good ... until you get water in your fuel.

 

[Zunami1]

Depends on what model year. I went with new dodge 3/4 because of rear coil springs. I think the ride is better when empty. Definitely better on my dirt road near home. Water in fuel issue is overstated. There is a separator and warning lights. Plus the customers before you. It's oil and does not evaporate like gas. It will linger on pumy handles and ground where ever it's spilled. Difinetly has dirtier feel at some fuel station as stated above. The front end on my dodge is 500 lbs. Heavier than gas motor option and 10ooo dollars more. Gas engines are so good now but the range of diesel as flash point of gas keeps me in a cummins with some mods we don't talk about. Def? I have had to buy any for awhile.

 

[Bombsight]

Overstated? Once you have water in your tank, all of the separators and warning lights in the world isn't going to make a difference . You will not get around having to drop the tank and flush the ENTIRE fuel system of water. That's how it is on a Duramax. It will cost you well over a grand to straighten out what "others in front of you" got also.

... and whoever doesn't know that the mess at the pumps is oil probably doesn't realize they don't have spark plugs and should opt for a gas guzzler.

 

[ntsqd]

From my '96 CTD ownership perspective I'd avoid those trucks that require DEF. Essentially these trucks require two different "fuels".

I also think that finding a diesel with the mileage that low is going to be extremely difficult. I suspect that you're applying gasoline mileage ideals to a diesel, and that is like thinking what you were paid for 20 acres in Nebraska will buy you a similar 20 acres in California. For a gasser that might be 1/3 to 1/2 of it's useful life, it's only 1/7th of of our CTD's current mileage and I fully expect to drop that to at least 1/10th before this engine shows much sign of wear.
Said differently, a diesel FS with only ~50k on it will be because A) the truck is a lemon, the owner passed and none of the rest of the family wants it, or extremely rarely C) the owner didn't like the truck. In short, a difficult find.

I'll also echo the phrase I've often read about these CTD's, "Nice engine, too bad it comes wrapped in a Dodge!" My fantasy is to scrap the Dodge sheet metal and replace it with a Restomodded '76-'79 Ford SuperCab, but that's a huge project & I'd rather go exploring.

I try really hard to only buy diesel from pumps that have a spin-on filter right at where the hose is attached to the pump. It's not a guaranty of no water, but it makes me feel better. I suppose that I should carry a real chamois for those really questionable fill-ups, but dispensing 60 gallons of fuel through a chamois would be a chore.

 

[Bombsight]

A clear jar and a little bit of settling time might work. You'll see water at the bottom if there is any.

... but back to the op topic ...

I wouldn't want anything short of a 1 ton unless the trails I'm blazin' just cant accommodate the size of it. Toyota Tacoma is the answer then.

 

[rotti]

1: No need for a 1 ton for a FWC. My Chevy HD2500 with stock suspension handles my 2,000 lb loaded Hawk great and at the scales I am 700 pounds under max payload. You mentioned the possibility of heavier campers though so I would definitely go 1 ton.

2: Gas or diesel....a can of worms opening. I live at altitude and cross the 12,000' passes here with ease in my gasser, plenty of power and my mileage ain't bad. Plus I saved 9 grand on the purchase price. With a bigger camper and dragging a trailer with toys I would go diesel but as others have mentioned the new ones scare me.

3: Brand....bigger can opening. I love my Chevy

Kudos for considering payload when choosing a truck!

 

[Hausa]

From my '96 CTD ownership perspective I'd avoid those trucks that require DEF. Essentially these trucks require two different "fuels".

I also think that finding a diesel with the mileage that low is going to be extremely difficult. I suspect that you're applying gasoline mileage ideals to a diesel, and that is like thinking what you were paid for 20 acres in Nebraska will buy you a similar 20 acres in California. For a gasser that might be 1/3 to 1/2 of it's useful life, it's only 1/7th of of our CTD's current mileage and I fully expect to drop that to at least 1/10th before this engine shows much sign of wear.
Said differently, a diesel FS with only ~50k on it will be because A) the truck is a lemon, the owner passed and none of the rest of the family wants it, or extremely rarely C) the owner didn't like the truck. In short, a difficult find.

I'll also echo the phrase I've often read about these CTD's, "Nice engine, too bad it comes wrapped in a Dodge!" My fantasy is to scrap the Dodge sheet metal and replace it with a Restomodded '76-'79 Ford SuperCab, but that's a huge project & I'd rather go exploring.

I try really hard to only buy diesel from pumps that have a spin-on filter right at where the hose is attached to the pump. It's not a guaranty of no water, but it makes me feel better. I suppose that I should carry a real chamois for those really questionable fill-ups, but dispensing 60 gallons of fuel through a chamois would be a chore.

Thanks for the reply. Yes the diesel engine's last much longer, but I'm also considering the rest of the truck when aiming for low mileage. in general less miles = less abuse. obviously that's not always the case, but it's a used truck with a mysterious track record. i'm open to higher mileage if the truck has been well maintained, but sometimes it can be hard for an ignorant driver like myself. my intention is to purchase from a dealer relatively close to home. any general tips or suggestions on things to avoid when buying used would be greatly appreciated.

also, the pre DEF trucks seem to sell at such a premium now that i'm not convinced it's worth it to shell out so much money for a 10-15 year old truck. the complexity of the new diesel engines seems like a cluster, but that's the brave new world we live in and my hope is that the newer ones have improved enough the avoid all the engine lights and repairs.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

For an extra $900-$1000, why not go for a 1 ton. Extra capacity if you need it, and per the rumor mill, they have a higher resale value.

I think all of the modern trucks are very good, so pick one where you have confidence in the dealer or mechanic who will maintain it. We went diesel because of large truck camper and boat, and pulling a good sized travel trailer.

 

[Hausa]

1: No need for a 1 ton for a FWC. My Chevy HD2500 with stock suspension handles my 2,000 lb loaded Hawk great and at the scales I am 700 pounds under max payload. You mentioned the possibility of heavier campers though so I would definitely go 1 ton.

2: Gas or diesel....a can of worms opening. I live at altitude and cross the 12,000' passes here with ease in my gasser, plenty of power and my mileage ain't bad. Plus I saved 9 grand on the purchase price. With a bigger camper and dragging a trailer with toys I would go diesel but as others have mentioned the new ones scare me.

3: Brand....bigger can opening. I love my Chevy

Kudos for considering payload when choosing a truck!

Thanks for the reply and nice photo!

The line of thinking you mentioned in regards to gas makes sense. I don't plan on towing much beyond a drift boat for now, just carrying around the camper and family. I'm living at around 6000 feet with passes all around so I've been thinking the fuel efficiency and performance of a diesel might be more noticeable, but I haven't compared the two to know for sure. I'll keep an open mind.

 

[Bombsight]

If you buy a diesel with DEF, don't let it idle any more than you have to. They don't burn off the particulates like they should at low rpm's. Doing so will have you in the shop sooner.,

 

[Advmoto18]

Not much difference between the F-250 and F-350 Super Duty.

The F250 has 2" blocks over the rear axle while the F350 has 4". If you do a lot of off-chamber off-road, some axle warping can be expected on the F-350 due to the 4" blocks.

F-350 has stiffer springs up front, which is an option on the F-250.

I bought the F-350 with increased payload. I never wanted to come up short on payload capability again.

 

[smlobx]

Advmoto and I share the same opinions when it comes to trucks (we both have F-350's!)

A couple of points that have not been mentioned yet. As a background, I own a construction company so diesels don't scare me...yes they do require a little more maintenance but I am anal about maintenance on all our vehicles so it's not an issue for me.
Yes they do cost more up front BUT you do get a sizeable chunk of that back when you sell it. I'm sure you've seen the prices on used diesels...
I had the dreaded Ford 6.0 diesel and I had it bullet proofed and it was a fantastic truck. I sold it with 150k on it for about 50% of what I paid for it after 10 years...not a bad return. Then I bought the exact same truck in the 2016 version.

The biggest advantages of a diesel for me is two fold; one is the mileage. I get about 15 mpg on average with my Hallmark on driving conservatively. The second is the range. Depending on the weight of the truck and what kind of road I'm driving on I can get up to 600 miles on a tank of fuel. Of course, off-road or with a camper that will decrease but it is a signinficant advantage over gas. Imho.

As far as brands, let me first say that all three of the major manufacturers have stepped up their game in the last 5 years or so. But here is my take...
Chevy has an independent front suspension. It has some advantages but isn't as strong as a straight axle.
Dodge 3/4 has a coil rear suspension and the capacity is severely limited. People who have them have had to make serious additions to be able to carry Campers.
The major difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton ford is the addition of an overload spring on the rear axle. The drivetrain and brakes are the same. The price difference is only a couple of hundred dollars so imho it's worth it.

I hope this helps...

 

[dharte]

Some 3/4 ton trucks like my 2005 F250 have a "slide-in camper certification". These (at least Fords) come from the factory with beefier front springs and a rear anti-sway bar. For my use, this is probably better than having a one ton truck. Driving up in the mountains a lot, I would not want a gasser-the torque and boost of the diesel provides so much power to climb hills with ease.

 

[Bombsight]

I have to admit ... a year later, I am STILL blown away at how effortless my Duramax carried my Hawk across the continental divide at 14,000'. Not once did I feel it downshift. The acceleration was smooth as silk even in the steepest areas.
Average MPG was around 14. For a lifted truck with 2000+ #'s in the back of it, that realization of performance was awesome.
Having the exhaust brake was awesome too. Those things work really well.

 

[Hausa]

Thanks everyone for weighing in. Seems like a 1 ton diesel is the direction I'm headed without any particular brand loyalty.

Great photo of the duramax at 14k, bombsight.

If anyone else has any opinions please keep it coming! Very helpful input so far, thanks again.

 

[Wango]

After driving import trucks, half tons, 3/4 tons- all gassers, wanted to make a changes.
Had camper/truck combo (profile Pic) for many years and many, many miles. Went to a one ton, works better, more room etc.
Was going to order a new 3/4 ton, ext cab, long bed gas in 2015. Cost would have been 41,900. Found a 2016, 1 ton, crew, long bed diesel on a lot for 43,500. Same color, upgrades etc.
Maintenance is a bit more, not in a crazy way though.
Not speaking poorly of gas motors, but if you use a truck this size for what it is for, diesels work better imho.
My choice for brand was made by cab height, where it's made(I'm from KY) and track record. Have owned/driven all three quite a bit.
Def/exhaust stuff can be a pain, but sometimes all that stuff falls off on the floor of a shop. You can let the new motors breathe and not roll coal like an idiot.
w

 

[Advmoto18]

Some 3/4 ton trucks like my 2005 F250 have a "slide-in camper certification". These (at least Fords) come from the factory with beefier front springs and a rear anti-sway bar. For my use, this is probably better than having a one ton truck. Driving up in the mountains a lot, I would not want a gasser-the torque and boost of the diesel provides so much power to climb hills with ease.

Because of the things Eddie mentioned (and all excellent and valid points)...
If you plan on using your truck for a camper, generally (well most always) better to step up to the 1 ton v 3/4 ton truck. Because of the 1 ton suspension enhancements from the factory, all for a few hundred dollars more on the sticker, you save thousands of dollars in components/installation you might have to add at a later date to a 3/4 ton.

That's not to say you might not want to add some things to a 1 ton. I added Air Lift air bags. Not because the truck needed them per se, but, because I wanted a completely level ride. The stock suspension was more then capable of carrying my "wet" FWC Hawk. I wasn't anywhere close to max payload (around 60% with the Hawk in the bed). I also immediately upgraded to the Rancho 9000XL shocks in the rear. Didn't need to; just wanted a level ride/look to the truck.

Same for the Bilstein front leveling kit. With the 4" blocks over the rear axle on the F-350, I didn't like the way the front sat lower. The kit leveled the truck.

I did HAVE to add a Helwig Big Wig rear sway bar. My F-350 did not have the FX4 package, so it did not come with a rear sway bar. A rear sway bar is a must with a camper in the bed IMO.

Those are the only upgrades I've performed on my 2016 F-350.

At some point, I will disconnect the ESOF vacuum system, remove the factory hubs and install the new Warn Premium Super Duty manual locking hubs. I much prefer manual locking hubs. I've been using Warn manual locking hubs since the early 70s.

I've owned both the 7.3 and now 6.7 Ford diesel motors. The 7.3 was probably the best non-Cummins motor ever built IMO. I sold my 2003 7.3 F-250 with a dinged up left rear quarter panel for 65% of what I paid for it new! Look at 7.3 Super Duty prices; the asking price will stun you. And sellers get the asking price, if not more due to buyers bidding up the price. I will only own diesel engines in my trucks. Even with its cost of ownership and disadvantages, performance is far superior to the gaser and I need the performance (torque).

On my recently complete 3 month trip out west, if I ran a tank of pure diesel, I had ~20 MPG at highway traveling speed (55-65). If Biodiesel, mileage dropped to 12-16 depending on percentage. I only filled up once with B-20, and barely got 12MPG. Also, above 65MPH, fuel economy drops off noticeably.