Revisiting heavy duty trucks

[Vic Harder]

Ideally, I would like a 5100 series shock designed/revalved for a heavier load. I wonder if they do that?

 

[Happyjax]

Soooooo

All you off roading Ford truck guys.....
6 3/4 or 8 foot bed on a crew cab?

Looking at an F-250 Lariat and have heard both sides of the wheelbase issues from guys at work but they don't do what we do.

Will it make a real difference off road and on trails like White Rim?

The 8 foot bed gives so much room but it really is big. This is my sticking point at the moment. Looking gasser so selections are not as good as diesel.

Thanks again you wonderful WTW'ers

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Here's a thought... Go for the 8 foot bed and the extended cab. You give up gas capacity, but you can mitigate that by having your camper built with some gas can mounts on the back. My Ranger & Bobcat has two 3 gallon Rotopax on the back wall. The wheelbase for the CCSB will be roughly the same as the ECLB. You gain back the room in the camper by sacrificing some in the cab.

I can't imagine trying to turn a CCLB truck around on a tight road.

 

[smlobx]

Here's a thought... Go for the 8 foot bed and the extended cab. You give up gas capacity, but you can mitigate that by having your camper built with some gas can mounts on the back. My Ranger & Bobcat has two 3 gallon Rotopax on the back wall. The wheelbase for the CCSB will be roughly the same as the ECLB. You gain back the room in the camper by sacrificing some in the cab.
I can't imagine trying to turn a CCLB truck around on a tight road.

Actually the size of the fuel tank is a function of the bed length, so an 8 ft bed will have the larger tank regardless of the cab configuration.

I have a CCLB truck and one day it is my hope to run White Rim trail....if I have to make a 10 point turn so be it...

 

[Happyjax]

I looked it up after conflicting statements and the fuel tank is a function of the cab. 48 gallon is on Crew Cab only and if it is diesel it needs to be a Crew Cab and 8ft bed (result of needing the def tank).

I will be carrying just me for the most part but I do like the bigger tank so it will probably be which truck appeals to me the most. Either way no Crew cab and 8ft bed. Unlike smlobx I prefer to keep my turn arounds to 5 points or less if possible....lol

 

[klahanie]

Ideally, I would like a 5100 series shock designed/revalved for a heavier load. I wonder if they do that?

FWIW I had a large CDN distributor (Essex) inquire and was told for my vehicle the 5100 is valved the same as the 4600. I have 4600 rear (oem was leaking) and 5100 front (oem was bagged- 2 sets) Both models are enough of an improvement over stock new that, for the money I'll prob just replace with same when desired.

... so it will probably be which truck appeals to me the most.

That's the key right there !

Pretty sure Ford gas SCLB and CCSB are both 34 gal - if those are your final two choices

If you are really serious about "off roading" then think about what Ace said, SCSB, because I believe that short config would make a difference. Otherwise let other factors take precedence, how long will the camper be, where are you going to store all your stuff, what else will you be using the truck for now and in future, what's available, affordability or simply what turns your crank - you might just love that big CC, size be darned.

 

[Happyjax]

The super cab with an 8' box has a 4" longer wheelbase than the Crew cab with the 6 3/4 box and the CC in the gas is 48 gallon tank. Super cab 34 gallons.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/2017/models/f350-lariat/

14 more gallons is nothing to scoff at.....

 

[klahanie]

14 more gallons is nothing to scoff at.....

Hey, I know it. We travel in remote areas. One of the top reasons I bought the truck we have was the ability to install a between the frame rails aux fuel tank. Stock main tank is 40 USG and although I can say for sure that we needed more on only one trip (North Canol) we have certainly made good use of having the additional range over the years (if only for peace of mind).

To carry more fuel was something I wanted, paid a lot for, and have used.

If there's a next time I'd be happy to have a stock 48 gal tank in a SCLB

ON EDIT: I have reread post above as saying 6.2, 160wb = 48g. I had checked the order guide before posting and this config capacity isn't mentioned. OK, so I'll add I'd also be happy to have a 48 gal in a CCSB gas for the reason I mentioned above - but wouldn't be surprised if either came with a 34... We'd be more likely to buy a CCLB though. Because I'd prob still want a LB for a camper and I'd like to try a CC simply because I have never owned one.

After all is said and read, if people can afford it they tend to buy what they want.

 

[Advmoto18]

How much difference did the Big Wig make? I'm about to install one.

Sorry for the delayed reply...

Made a very noticeable difference. I mounted my frame stays in the center hole of the Big Wig. Eliminated the just barely noticeable sway I was experiencing. An upgrade worth the coin and time to install IMO.

Be very mindful of the bolts and lock nuts. Some bolts/nuts have different thread pitches. I recommend mating bolts and nuts BEFORE you begin the installation.

 

[Advmoto18]

Your questions can't be easily answered.

Some 3/4 and 1-ton trucks are EXACTLY the same physically. My F250 is EXACTLY the same as an F350 of the same year. The only difference in production is a block under the rear leaf springs that is 2" tall on the F250 and 4" tall on the F350. That is the ONLY difference (besides badging). Physically, they are the same truck. That doesn't mean it is the same for Chevy/GMC or Dodge, etc.

Some gas engines last longer than diesel engines. Diesel engines are not the same as they used to be, and the fuel systems are certainly different. There are other things to consider as well. Diesel engines tend to weigh considerably more than gas engines. So, the amount of payload can be decreased for diesel equipped trucks. Diesels tend to work better at altitude, but the differences are less impressive at lower elevations. If you have a turbo'd gas truck, that difference at altitude may be less than it would otherwise be.

Some insurance companies consider a personal vehicle one under 10k GVWR and some cities/counties have traffic regulations based on GVWR, like Los Angeles (you'll see Ford offers a F350 with a 10k GVWR, but the truck is physically no different than one with a higher GVWR).

So, there can only be generalizations made.

I think the best truck for your situation is a new F350 with gas engine, 4x4, 4.30 gears and rear e-locker.

Most of the Ford's showroom and online marketing literature will lead you into believing the F-250 and F-350 are "EXACTLY" the same trucks (except for the rear axle blocks). But, a closer look at Ford's Body Builder Layout Book will reveal differences. Perhaps not any that make a difference to most of us.

 

[slus]

I recent wrestled with my mind for a month or so over buying a new truck and what to buy. The wife got tired of pulling her horse trailer with my manual transmission 7.3 and said I should get a new one, I'm no dummy so I went researching, shopping and test driving. I can share a few thoughts from my experience.

Brand
I drove the new diesels from the Big 3. They are all NICE trucks. I'd take any one of them, in fact I'd take all 3 if I could, they each had something I liked over the others. I've owned Chevys and Fords in the past, they both had little problems, I'm sure Dodge did too. You already know which diesel engines that had major problems and I would personally avoid, I won't beat that dead horse. I did all kinds of research on the new trucks and I'm sure they'll all have little problems too. The new Duramax is 90% new or whatever, but from my intel and intuition, the Duramax is pretty well refined at this point. The 6.7 Powerstroke is the same basic design since 2011 and solid, and the 6.7 Cummins has been out since, what, 2008? Minor changes, also solid. I couldn't fault any from that standpoint. The power war between the Big 3 diesels is pretty ridiculous in my opinion. They all have more power than I know what to do with. I had no power or speed issues with my old 7.3 and it is a rolling turd compared to the new trucks. The decision came down to Price vs Features, and Ram won big time. Ford is all new for '17, GM redesigned in '15 has a sweet new engine for '17...Ram looks like the same truck from 2010 if you aren't paying attention, and I think they compensated with rebates. Works for me.

Used vs New
If I'm spending that much money on a newer truck, I wanted it to last 7+ years how I use it. So that means a couple years old with 20-30k miles or new. Seriously, it was about 5-10k more for a new one and I could pick and choose what I wanted. Easy choice.

"Pre-Smog" vs Newer
I kept my 7.3, drive it to work every day, at 220k miles it has a lot of life left. It's easy to work on, the engine isn't what I would call "simple" compared to the IDIs of older Fords or a gas engine, but it's easy enough to figure out. The thing is 20 years old though, I was always working on it before trips and it did get old being on a deadline to get it perfect before a trip, and it wasn't worth it to go "pre-smog" again for that reason. Yes, it has zero smog equipment, that's nice, but my new truck has a warranty, and I'll probably keep the new one for 7 years or 100k and then want a new one anyway. I don't see the big deal with DEF, it's available basically everywhere and the tank lasts 4500 miles on my Ram. Saying you have to plan ahead for DEF on a trip like its a bad thing is ridiculous on a truck like mine. Are you driving 4500 miles between passing walmart, auto parts store, truck stop and many gas stations? Of course not.

1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton vs 1 ton
I'm not going to lie, I don't need anything more than a 1/2 ton gasser. The new 1/2 tons are very capable trucks, especially the new F150s, huge payload and towing capacity. I certainly don't NEED a diesel in a heavy duty truck, and it is an 8-9k premium in price, but I do like having extra capability. I chalk both the diesel and heavy duty truck up to a luxury feature, I know I'll never justify it any other way.

The biggest decision when buying my new Ram was getting a 2500 or 3500. The 3/4 ton was rated at 9900, and the 1 Ton at 12000, big difference. The frame, axles, brakes, tires, wheels and front suspension are the same, but the rear suspension is totally different, 2500s supposedly ride better with coils, drove them both, they both ride fine. Here's the kicker, MSRP to MSRP was about 1000 dollars, not worth arguing about, easy choice...IF you're special ordering either truck. There were almost 100 white MegaCab 2500s on lots in California when I looked. There were 2 3500 white MegaCabs, both Laramie Longhorns 75k+ trucks, so I ended up saving a whole lot more dealing with an in stock truck vs ordering one. Plus, it takes months to get the truck, and you don't know what rebates will be available when it comes in.

Later, after I got the new truck home, I looked at the sticker on my old one ton F350...9200lbs GVWR. Its about a thousand pounds lighter so technically the payload is higher on the old 1 ton vs the new 3/4 ton, within a few hundred pounds, but it's just like what I said about the new 1/2 tons...these new trucks are VERY capable. Fully loaded with my Hawk and gear, I added bigger sway bars and Timbren bumpstops to the old F350, and it handled the load fine like that. The new Ram I put on the camper and drove away, and it handles everything MUCH better. I have no regrets for my use with the 3/4 ton, given the savings. If you are ordering either way, I vote straight to the top: NEW, HEAVY DUTY, DIESEL and ONE TON.

Hope this helps someone.
-Eric

 

[ntsqd]

Ideally, I would like a 5100 series shock designed/revalved for a heavier load. I wonder if they do that?

Valving is mostly for the unsprung mass and somewhat for the spring rate, so weight on the truck does not make a large difference to the valving. When thinking about damping the 'ground reference' is the vehicle, not the earth. I know that is not an easy thing to wrap one's head around, I struggled with it for quite a while.

A point to older diesel trucks is that you can add a larger capacity fuel tank. Our ClubCab LB came with a 35 gallon tank. I recently changed that to a 60 gallon tank. I don't know it that is possible with a gasser at all (our tank vendor had zero gasser options) or with smog-checked diesels.

We have a short bed camper in our LB and there are plenty of times I wish for a LB camper for more storage. Not that we need to haul more stuff, but that we'd like to be able to put stuff in one place and not have to do the shuffle as we shift from one use mode to the next.

 

[Bombsight]

Sorry for the delayed reply...

Made a very noticeable difference. I mounted my frame stays in the center hole of the Big Wig. Eliminated the just barely noticeable sway I was experiencing. An upgrade worth the coin and time to install IMO.

Be very mindful of the bolts and lock nuts. Some bolts/nuts have different thread pitches. I recommend mating bolts and nuts BEFORE you begin the installation.

Much thanks! It's replies like this that keep me coming back to WTW.

 

[Bombsight]

I don't see the big deal with DEF, it's available basically everywhere and the tank lasts 4500 miles

My dealers diesel mechanic cautioned me on idling with the new DEF systems. He said the system doesn't burn off the pollutants at low rpms and consequently, the exhaust system will plug sooner (effecting performance) if idled too much for too long.

Just thought I'd share that since a lot of diesel owners idle at length for various reasons.

 

[Happyjax]

Bombsight,

I had also heard about the idling and I often tool around wildlife refuges for hours never going over 10-15 mph which I believe is about as bad as idling is. I will also stop and start the vehicle 15 or more times as you cannot shoot with it running, will ruin your pic. Not thinking diesels would like that much either.....

All in all I would not work the diesel as it should be hence my choice of a gasser.

If you tow big or carry big I can see the need but I think the extra $8700 and added fuel/maintenance/repair costs can be put to better use in my case

Now....back to the Crew cab 6 3/4 or 8ft bed debate....lol

 

[Bombsight]

Now....back to the Crew cab 6 3/4 or 8ft bed debate....lol

My bed is 6.5 and I can't imagine having to park anything longer in a crowded parking lot ... much less maneuvering it in the bush.

 

[Happyjax]

Thanks Bombsight. I feel the same way but I have a few guys at work who insist it isn't that big a deal. Of course none of them have driven the places we want to go.

I figured I could get an 8 ft camper in that 6 3/4 ft bed without being to far back on the rear wheels. A nice extended cabover would certainly offset and give me good COG.....?

 

[ntsqd]

Do you mean places like going over "The Wall" on the back way into Lunar Crater?

Or the overlook past Coyote Lake & above Funnel Lake? Wish that I had a pic of what we drove thru to get to this point. We really had no business being there, but once committed to that last section of road.....

There have been times when the 8' bed was an issue. There were times when the 6' bed on my '84 Xcab Yota was too long. There is no perfect rig for all trips. While a consideration, my own take is that there are other things that matter more than if that 18" to 24" of additional bed length will make or break a trip. A sufficiently talented fool, er driver can get the longer truck into just about anywhere, AND back out.

I feel the truck's OAL more in parking lots. That's just a little planning ahead. With parking stalls designed for Geo Metros I park way out in the boonies and take whatever space I need, and leave myself room to get back out too. Sure, some people wank about it. They're the ones driving Geo Metros and have no clue.

 

[MANXMAN]

I think the best truck for your situation is a new F350 with gas engine, 4x4, 4.30 gears and rear e-locker.

That is the exact same conclusion I came to after much deliberation.

The F250 would be enough to haul my camper, but after road testing both the F250 and F350, the ride is basically the same so why not get the higher payload. The upgraded transmission seems like a worthwhile added bonus too.

Wanting the most maneuverable truck I went for the SCSB with148" wheelbase. Still allows my 7' 9" long ATC flatbed camper to be mounted.


As far as gas vs diesel, I wanted a gas engine and the 6.2L V8 is a good one. The local Ford dealer says it is the only engine they have never torn apart. The lighter weight gas V8 also contributes to the 4000 plus pound payload of the truck.

Also the gas engine can be ordered with dual batteries which will come in handy to run our little Engel freezer that mounts into the cab of the truck.

 

[smlobx]

As another data point here's an article by Road & Track about vehicle longevity...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28278/top-cars-to-make-it-over-200000-miles/?src=socialflowFB