Rivet question for lift panel repair (4WC Grandby)

[DesertRatliff]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of retrofitting the lift panels on my 97 Grandby to composite (panels hopefully sold to me tomorrow by a member here who fabricated them himself).

After reading as many of the threads as I can, my prevailing question is on rivets and riveting.

I'm concerned with the process of pounding the back of the pop rivet flat and still getting a good rivet hold. Has anybody tried pull-thru rivets? Are there any other products which leave a flush finish on both sides? I'm even tossing the idea of nutserts or T-nuts as I truly hate pop rivets and have never had good results by pounding the back flush.

Also can anyone tell me why you can't just use sheet metal screws to attach the hinges to the top and bottom frames. I see sheet metal screws attached to the bottom hinge but not the top/roof hinge. Any reason nut to run the hinges in with sheet metal screws?


Thanks for the help!

 

[Alley-Kat]

Call Marty or Jeff at All Terrain Campers, they will tell you the straight scoop.
Best information you can get, straight from the guys that build 'em.

I have a vague memory of what they told me when I asked them, however, call the experts.
They are always happy to give this kind of information out.

 

[PokyBro]

Hello DR,

I'll give you my thoughts on your questions.

I found the pop rivets to work out well on my panels, but a couple of things to note. You'll be looking for large-flange 1/8" rivets (I've seen them on eBay) for the center hinge, and where each hinge attaches to the top and bottom panels.

I used a car body repair dolly (chunk of metal) on the rivet flat side, and repeated gentle taps on the opposing side with a medium size hammer until mostly flattened. You can over do it and make a mess out of the rivet, and/ or damage your panel. The reason for the rivets needing to be flattened is to achieve sufficient room for the hinges to fully articulate and flatten when the panels fold.

The top panel hinge, where it attaches to the roof uses 3/16" pop-rivets. My best guess why you would stay with rivets on the roof is because the holes are predrilled on the roof, and this is why everything lines up exactly where it should, as the holes in the roof correspond with the holes in the hinges. To use screws on those holes would require either #10 or #12 screws, and I'm not sure they'd hold as well as pop-rivets, or allow room for the panels to fully flatten. On the camper side wall, #8 x 3/4" hex head screws are used for the bottom panel, as you probably know.

I highly recommend a pneumatic air riveter gun, which are affordable at Harbor Freight, as they make the riveting process go quite smoothly, and save your hands. One to two trigger pulls, and they're in.

Hope this may be of help, good luck!

Poky

 

[DesertRatliff]

Call Marty or Jeff at All Terrain Campers, they will tell you the straight scoop.
Best information you can get, straight from the guys that build 'em.

I have a vague memory of what they told me when I asked them, however, call the experts.
They are always happy to give this kind of information out.

Call Marty or Jeff at All Terrain Campers, they will tell you the straight scoop.
Best information you can get, straight from the guys that build 'em.

I have a vague memory of what they told me when I asked them, however, call the experts.
They are always happy to give this kind of information out.

Thanks. I've got dialogue going with Marty right now and will ask.

Hello DR,

I'll give you my thoughts on your questions.

I found the pop rivets to work out well on my panels, but a couple of things to note. You'll be looking for large-flange 1/8" rivets (I've seen them on eBay) for the center hinge, and where each hinge attaches to the top and bottom panels.

I used a car body repair dolly (chunk of metal) on the rivet flat side, and repeated gentle taps on the opposing side with a medium size hammer until mostly flattened. You can over do it and make a mess out of the rivet, and/ or damage your panel. The reason for the rivets needing to be flattened is to achieve sufficient room for the hinges to fully articulate and flatten when the panels fold.

The top panel hinge, where it attaches to the roof uses 3/16" pop-rivets. My best guess why you would stay with rivets on the roof is because the holes are predrilled on the roof, and this is why everything lines up exactly where it should, as the holes in the roof correspond with the holes in the hinges. To use screws on those holes would require either #10 or #12 screws, and I'm not sure they'd hold as well as pop-rivets, or allow room for the panels to fully flatten. On the camper side wall, #8 x 3/4" hex head screws are used for the bottom panel, as you probably know.

I highly recommend a pneumatic air riveter gun, which are affordable at Harbor Freight, as they make the riveting process go quite smoothly, and save your hands. One to two trigger pulls, and they're in.

Hope this may be of help, good luck!

Poky

I'm doing a run down to another town that has a Harbor Freight today or tomorrow. If Marty says nutserts are out, I'll be sure to pick up a pneumatic rivet gun. Great advice. Thanks

Edit Poky: I've read your thread on your lift panel repair and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting. Great info there.

 

[shellback]

I used a pneumatic muffler chisel gun with the chisel ground flat to flatten my rivets.Had a heavy metal plate on the back side. As Poky mentioned the top hinge has to fold back flat when the top is down. I think any screw heads will cause interference. I used these rivet for the middle hinges. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AGK8182/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Had them in just a few days after ordering.

 

[DesertRatliff]

Thanks for the link. Nice to have an exact part that's worked for someone.

The thing that has me thinking about nutserts and t-nuts is that they leave as little interference on the back of a panel as a pounded rivet with several orders of magnitude less work. And they'd be so easy to remove for someone in the future. I just don't wanna be the guinea pig here!

 

[shellback]

I tried weldnuts and screws, didn't like the interference when folding. They might have worked well enough, but I liked the way the rivets folded tighter. I had built some mock up panels first, as my camper had no lift panels when I bought it. One mock up I built with weld nuts and screws, the second with rivets. I used ACM panels and there wasn't a lot of rivet head to beat down using 1/4" rivets.

 

[DesertRatliff]

Perfect! Great intel and glad I'm not the first to have thought of this and tried it as time is a wastin'! Marty at ATC said they've had customers try weldnuts/t-nuts and it doesn't work due to interference.