Shell Camping

F

fishonyukon

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Joined
Sep 24, 2009
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3
Location
Whitehorse Yukon
Hello Again.

Working with ATC to build a Panther Shell and I keep thinking that the shell is the better way to go for us. I wanted to see what others thought just in case I am missing anything.

Here is my rationale:
We are a family of four (with two young kids) who believe in being more minimalist. We definitely don't want a shower, toilet or sink. We like to cook and wash the dishes outdoor at a picnic table. All I think we need is a furnace, fridge, couch/bed and the rest is storage for rubber maids. One for cooking stuff and dishes, one for lanterns and other gear, one for fishing stuff, one for dry foods and a couple of bags for clothes. I would think we will pull into a campsite, pull out the four-five rubbermaids and have plenty of room for sitting and moving around, should it be raining.

I was kind of sold on the idea by George Sears review on the ATC website and his George's video link..

Am I missing anything or will I regret not having the cabinets and sink?
 
Get a fridge and furnace (fridge could be debated but definitely the furnace, its nice) in the back corner and build a dinette across the front that turns into a bed! I've been thinking this would be a sweet setup for some time and your situation sounds prime for it.

As for a sink its not a truly needed item, esp. if you are used to not having one, just use a wash pan or such.
 
I'll admit I don't use my sink much. I have the shower and for the number of times I use it (though I did use it last weekend) I would probably enjoy having the space more. I keep thinking though that in the future, when I can actually go for a week or more that it will really start to shine.
 
I had the boys @ ATC build me a Couger camper back in 07. I too, at the time was mixed on whether or not to have a shell or camper built. In the end I went with the camper and am pleased, however,if I were to do it again I would go with a shell with the following options. Heater, screen door, awning, aux. outlets and an engel fridge.

marc
 
I'm with Marc. You'd be surprised how nice the awning is in bad weather. Be sure you get a Fiamma awning though and not that wonky thing ATC calls an awning :)

I'm in the simpler is better camp too and I think I'd be happy with a shell. Gotta have a furnace though.
 
I could definitely live without the sink & water tank. I never use them. But I do like the stovetop & counter space for meal prep & dish duty in bad weather or during a mosquito air raid.

I would add a Fantastic Fan vent thingy to your list, just because of how wonderful a little air moving can be during a stagnant afternoon or sweltering evening. But other than that, I would say you're right on with your thinking & planning.
.
 
Only thing you may want to consider is some form of Porta Potty, I've been camping with my daughters (twin 8 year olds) and the thought of running to the bathroom in the middle of the night for one, then after settling in the other needs to go, gets real old real fast.

I'm working on my next camper, biggest things I know I need are the refrigerator (looking at a Nova Kool 3100 wall mounted unit) a small heater, and a porta potty. I use my coleman 2 burner stove all the time, so that's not an issue for cooking, but the refrigerator makes life so much easier when you can cook fresh food and not have to stop at a market every day or two for supplies.

Good luck with the Panther, can't wait to see pics
 
I like to cook outside and thought I would pretty much only do that, but I have to admit I really do appreciate the indoor stove and sink. When I have the time to relax outside and set up/break down it is nice to be outside. But when you pull in late, or are just doing an overnight stop at one spot it is a lot quicker and easier to just fire up the indoor stove and do the meal with everything close by. Outside you have to drag everything out and then back in.

The indoor water and sink is one of my favorite things. Makes doing dishes after eating indoors quick and easy and sure beats pouring water our of jugs to fill water bottles, glasses, do dishes, etc. Makes me smile just hitting the button and having water come out after tent camping for so many years. I use the outside drain to fill water bottles or get water if I'm outside (have an Eagle and I think the drain is up higher then the Hawk and is very easy to access). I do have a thin cutting board that fits perfectly over the sink and gives back the counter space you loose with the sink which helps for meal prep, etc.
 
Call me old and soft, but I really enjoy the creature comforts in the camper. I even added a 1.5KW inverter and a microwave. I have an Engel 45 that I run in freezer mode and use a good 5 day cooler for milk, eggs, beer, etc. During the Colorado rally, I was in the camper 9 days and didn't once have to stop for food or Ice. The Engel kept everything frozen until needed, and when the cooler needed ice, I just made it in the Engel. I usually cook outside, either on a Coleman stove, or a Weber BBQ. I've only used the stove-top in the camper a couple times when the weather was bad, but it is very nice to have. The sink is great for dishes and clean-up. Since I don't have a water heater, It's easy and quick to heat water in the microwave. The so-called "Ice Box" in the camper is next to useless, so it's used as a storage cabinet, I will be removing it soon and utilizing the entire space for storage. I bought my FWC used, and when I got it , it didn't have a heater. A couple 20 degree nights in Death Valley convinced me I needed one. When I returned, I had ATC install a furnace and love it. I've also added 2 fantastic fans and can't say enough good things about them.

I guess my 'minimalist days" are over...give me creature comforts :)
 
I should add, while i could probably forgo the sink and the water heater, I love having onboard water. I use that all the time. Dog water mostly, coffee water, dishes and whatever. Really, for the small added storage space I'd gain, i"m probably glad i have the water heater and sink.
 
A built in heater, or maybe a portable? Why use the space for something that will not be used all the time. Also no need for such a large propane tank (if you had a AC/DC refrigerator).
 
Portables have safety issues. You'll use your heater more than you expect. You can use the propane for other things too.

prophoseWinCE.jpg


camptruckcoleman.jpg
 
Hello Again.

Working with ATC to build a Panther Shell and I keep thinking that the shell is the better way to go for us. I wanted to see what others thought just in case I am missing anything.

Here is my rationale:
We are a family of four (with two young kids) who believe in being more minimalist. We definitely don't want a shower, toilet or sink. We like to cook and wash the dishes outdoor at a picnic table. All I think we need is a furnace, fridge, couch/bed and the rest is storage for rubber maids. One for cooking stuff and dishes, one for lanterns and other gear, one for fishing stuff, one for dry foods and a couple of bags for clothes. I would think we will pull into a campsite, pull out the four-five rubbermaids and have plenty of room for sitting and moving around, should it be raining.

I was kind of sold on the idea by George Sears review on the ATC website and his George's video link..

Am I missing anything or will I regret not having the cabinets and sink?



A shell worked well for my family. Mine is home-build but the same size as the Panther or Hawk models. You don’t say how old your children are but keep in mind that time goes by (fast) and kids grow. It seems like yesterday when mine were small enough to make just about any arrangement work and now one is a sophomore in college and the other a senior in HS. We also had a medium size dog (Golden Retriever) but alas no more. Besides room needed for sleeping it is amazing how much room coolers, sleeping blankets, backpacks, boating stuff and other camping equipment takes up so a shell might be the only thing that would be functional for very long.

Ventilation is a must with four campers and especially if you have a dog too. I built mine with two slider windows on each side of the camper which was/is nice for ventilation. The Panther/Hawk side window only opens on the back half of the window (I think) and might make for some stuffy camping, the fantastic fan might make up for this some but direct window ventilation is probably much better so consider an additional window on the left/passenger side.

I made fold down beds that run the length of each side of the lower part of the camper using part of the ledge below the window (piano hinges run the length). They fold up for packing the camper, are useful as bench seats and work tables. I can’t imagine four people of any size sleeping in one of these campers without this type of setup (originally I had placed beds cross ways in the lower part of the camper but that didn’t work nearly as well).

I have never cooked in the camper but the last time we used it at spring break my son and I hiked/backpacked in the Grand Canyon while my wife camped at the south rim. It was cold and snowy (made for memorable - in a good way - backpacking) especially up at the rim and my wife did heat up food with a butane cooking stove which cost <$20, lasts for a long time on a butane cartridge, works great and is made for indoor use. She also heated with a propane Coleman catalytic heater which works OK to keep it warm but isn’t supposed to be used while sleeping and adds moisture to the air. We do have carbon monoxide monitors. I agree a vented furnace would be nice but it also takes up valuable room.

I like having built mine, it was a fun project at the time and now after several yrs I like not having to worry that I have the price of a year’s college education sitting under a tarp in the backyard. Good luck with whatever you choose.
 
I cook and clean outside. I did get the built in furnace for when it gets cold. The furnace has not yet been used but it should soon. ( Winters coming)

I would never get a inside fridge. This year I have had bears in camp and I would not want my kids sleeping next to food at night. I have chosen to hang food and get the Yeti coolers.

I have gone on about a dozen trips and have spent many nights in the camper.
I have no regrets on not getting additional apliances.

I don’t think the coming winter will change my mind on the extra gear not purchased.
I havn’t had the camper for a very long time. I have spent tooooo many years winter camping and don’t think I’ll want to have everything in the camper.
I carry lot’s of extra gear to have fun so I like the extra space. The camper is like a motel used to sleep and eat. Then wake up and start the outdoor fun again.


Here are the options I have chosen.
1. Extended Cabover
2. Mechanical Camper Jacks
3. Optional Furnace
4. Extra Roof Vent
5. 32 Inch Door “a deer might fit but not an Elk
6. Screen Door
7. Artic pack I plan on making myself.
8. Flood Lights
10. 12 Volt Outlet
11. Auxiliary Battery System
12. Front Window
13. Easy Roof Lift Assist
14. C/O Detector
15. L/P Detector

AbaloneTony
 
Thank you all so much for your advice. I just read all the posts aloud to my wife and we have some discussing to do :D.

Everyone has made some great points. What I am taking away from this is that I think we are on the right track with our planning, definitely need the fantastic fan, would like to see if we can run a propane line out for a small external stove, perhaps purchase a separate indoor single burner (did not know there was such a thing that was safe to use indoors).

A couple more questions while I was reading your replies? What is the difference between the Engel, Dometic and Waeco fridges? There seems to be some options but not sure what the real differences are?
 
But when you pull in late, or are just doing an overnight stop at one spot it is a lot quicker and easier to just fire up the indoor stove and do the meal with everything close by. Outside you have to drag everything out and then back in.


This an excellent point for seriously considering a stovetop of some kind...

There have been several instances when I rolled in after dark and the weather was unhappy. Trying to set up the stove outside in the dark and blowing wind would have been insufferable. Sand & grit is not seasoning you want in your food! There is a real comfort factor in preparing a warm meal inside the camper while the weather outside is pouring & howling.


The Engel, Dometic and Waeco fridges are similar in design with a Danfoss compressor that will run at any angle. I have found the customer support with Engel products to be excellent while my bud with a Waeco has had a not so good experience. Waeco customer service was helpful, but it took a lot of calls and chasing them down before his issue was resolved. All 3 brands are tough and durable, but in the case of a repair, I would want the Engel product over the Waeco. I have heard good things about Dometics, but have no personal experience with them.

.
 
Actually the Engel uses a sawafuji compressor. Similar principle. I do like my stove. For the bad weather, but usually just to have coffee going while I'm doing other stuff in the morning.
 
This thread really is about how you camp and what your comfort level is. Don't forget, though, that You might find that you will do new things and explore options you never considered before. Good to have versatility.

I have a hawk shell and built my own cabinets on the inside. Very versatile. I can easily have 2 or 3 campers inside if need be and have taken my 3 nephews on many occasions. I don't have a heater, but the more I camp in the winter, the more I wish I had it. Right now, I use a Buddy heater, which works well and I can take it out of the camper during the warmer months up hear in the northwest. But come those 25 degree nights, the convenient heater is sounding better all of the time.

Some of the folks are right in that it is nice to be able to prepare food in the camper when the weather is ugly outside. I have a jetboil stove that I use to make simple soups, ramen noodles, and coffee with. Works well and is very fast and compact. If it is just me, this works well. If I have another, then the 2 burner comes out. I only do this with bad weather in the cold as I still prefer using the stove outside under the awning, even in the rain.

As for a sink, well, I use a lot of baby wipes in the winter!! No porta potti either. I did pick up a nice trick from a friend and often will run a piece of tubing from the camper, out an access port, and down the bed and out under the truck. With a little funnel, this makes an excellent urinal when the temp is below 30. Works for me, but I don't know if the ladies would agree. When it is warm, I remember what a friend told me..."when you are a guy, the world is a bathroom".

I have an ARB version of the Engel. Love it. Right now, it sits in the backseat of the extended cab. I can reach through the sliding window and get what I need in most cases. Makes for more room in the camper.

One of the ultimate designs would be to have a camper where the stove and sink could be used inside or outside to reduce duplicity. This would be great if someone could figure it out.

I've also used the camper for stealth camping in the cities. Great when visiting friends and they don't have extra room, or for that visit to someone who snores too loud. Keep the top down, drapes closed, and sleep away. This way I can stay up, sleep early or do what I want without disturbing my host. Works well when they have kids that sleep early.

I think the shell gives you a lot of flexibility and you can configure it for whatever you want. Go out and enjoy, that is the bottom line!

Hope that helps,
Dave
 
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