Shell vs Loaded?

[Bread]

Hi all!
New to the forum. Been eyeing the FWC Fleet for some time and are getting closer to making a purchase. Just can't decide on whether to go with the shell or a fairly well equipped model.

I have a 2011 Tacoma extended cab with v6.

Overall, I'm concerned more with weight than actual cost of the camper. We live in Asheville, NC and plan to make multi-month trips to the west, Alaska, Canada, and wherever. We will have our kayaks on the roof (about 53lbs/each) and mnt bikes on a front of the truck mounted rack. We'll also carry along climbing and backpacking gear.

I would likely go with the equipped model right now if weight wasn't a concern. I'm prepared to add a Hellwig spring pack if needed. It would be nice to have the luxury, especially since we plan to be on the road for long periods. Hot showers are nice too. A couple things about the equipped model that cause concern, besides weight, are the built in stove. We like to cook outside as well as inside. And the plastic water tank. I've read that they add a funky taste to the water.

I like the simplicity of the shell (not so many working parts), the weight saving, and the storage space.

Here's what I'd go with if weight wasn't a concern:
Fleet Pop-Up Camper
Mechanical Camper Jacks w/brackets
Forced Air Furnace w/thermostat
DSI Hot Water Heater w/outside shower
Fantastic Power Roof Vent (installed above bed)
Screen Door
Front Opening window
Extended 10' Yakima "Tracks Only" on roof
Rear Wall Steps
Solar "Plug Only" on rear wall
Auxiliary Battery System
Gas Strut Roof Assists
Engel Ready configuration
Engel Refrigerator 35

Any help with solving this first world problem is much appreciated.

Thanks!
Ed

 

[jha6av8r]

Weight is going to be your enemy. Ask FWC for the weights of the options you want and add everything up including your gear. I think the bottom line is how comforable will you be traveling over GVWR even with suspension mods. Options for my Grandby added about 600# to the camper and it came in at 1,435# dry. It probably sits in the back of our truck as just under 2,000#.

 

[Beach]

You will have more control over your weight issue if you install what you want yourself. Some of the things you mentioned are easiest if installed during the build(roof steps, rack tracks, etc). If I hadn't run across a deal on a used hawk I was going to purchase a shell. You will also be able to set up your storage to fit your needs(climbing gear etc) maybe even put your bikes inside locked away if you pack into the back country for a few nights. Besides Hellwig, check out the Super Springs product, I just installed some(06 Tundra Access Cab) and they perform well, now if my HD shocks would get here suspension would be complete.

 

[Kispiox]

I too like my Supersprings. I am a short trimmer with a Hawk on an F-250. After making a few modifications I drove to Northern BC, Canada for two and a half months on my shakedown. My Loaded Hawk weighed in at about 1,350 dry and no gear. I really don't have much in it other than cooking gear and food. Everything else including jacks for traveling is stored in the rear of crew cab. BTW, back seat removed except jump seat. Loaded, I sat down just over 2" on my rears, but a little asymmetrical. The truck drove fine but with a little sway, but not significant. I just got tired of not being level and after back in the US I installed the Super Springs. They are a marked improvement and also cured what sway problem there was. Maybe a bit better mileage too? Not certain of that.

I don't have any comparison with air bags, but they probably work well too. That's my experience with a 3/4-T. Others here can advise specific to a Tundra, but I'm thinking every pound should be carefully considered.

 

[Lighthawk]

Skip the furnace and install a wave heater.

We like all the amenities in our Tundra/Hawk. I BBQ outdoors, but also enjoy being out of the weather and use the interior kitchen. A sink with running water is a great invention ; )

Also, we have no issues with water taste. I always drain and refill for each trip.

Hope that helps. Sounds like some great climbing trips coming up!

 

[rotti]

What does your yellow sticker say on your truck for your payload capacity? (probably on the door frame)

If I had to guess it is around 1100 to 1300 pounds.

Now add a driver and a passenger, a dog? 300 lbs
Add a FWC, with your options: 800 to 1000 lbs (my similar Hawk was 1300 lbs dry and empty)
200 lbs of boats and bikes and mounting hardware
20 gallons of water: 160 lbs
Gear/food for a multi month trip: many say add 500 to a 1000 lbs

I would think you'll be way over your payload rating but that is your call.
Myself, I did the math and a 3/4 truck was the only answer for me.

If you forge ahead, keep it as light as possible, definitely springs and load range E tires. Tires are usually the first fatality in a overloaded condition.

Good luck and welcome

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Not to hijack, but is an Engle refrigerator an option? We just placed our order, but didn't think about an Engle.

 

[Bread]

This forum is awesome! Thanks so much for the great replies.

After listening to y'all and reading the entire gear forum, I'm getting more excited about the shell model. Getting a wave heater, zodi extreme shower, and building it out to just how we want it might be the way to go saving lots of weight and $$.

Looks like the payload capacity is 1395 lbs and GVWR is 5350.

Not to hijack, but is an Engle refrigerator an option? We just placed our order, but didn't think about an Engle.

I'll likely order from Go Anywhere in Wisconsin and he is an Engel dealer. You can order the "Engel ready" configuration from the FWC factory which allows you to drop it right in.

 

[takesiteasy]

We have the exact truck in the off-road TRD version with an ATC shell. Weight/payload will be your main issue. We went the shell route and are happy but we travel light. You can check out our rig in our blog linked in the signature. I have entries on the build and the weight and well as some trip reports. Good luck and happy camping.

 

[ski3pin]

Skip the furnace and install a wave heater.

We like all the amenities in our Tundra/Hawk. I BBQ outdoors, but also enjoy being out of the weather and use the interior kitchen. A sink with running water is a great invention ; )

Also, we have no issues with water taste. I always drain and refill for each trip.

Hope that helps. Sounds like some great climbing trips coming up!

I agree with Lighthawk here and "A sink with running water is a great invention" earns a gold star. We are very minimalists in our travels. Our amenities are simple and we watch weight by seriously resisting that urge to bring more or add just one more thing. Here's why Lighthawk's quote gets a gold star. You need water and a basin. Probably not much difference in weight overall between having it in a blue cube and pouring into a basin compared with built in. Built in means I don't have to move anything to use it. And think how many times you use a sink or basin - a quick wash of the hands, brush the teeth and spit, etc. We love that sink when it's snowing and blowing outside.

Getting a shell and figuring out a build to suit your developing needs is a great way to go. But give it some thought before ordering. The driver's side wall framing is different on a shell than a complete build. If you will want any changes to accommodate future access issues through that wall, think of them now and see how the FWC dealer can help.

You are doing a great job by asking these questions and considering all your options now. Best of luck with your decisions and project!

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Bread,

I have the Eagle shell model on 2013 Tacoma X-tended cab 4WD with V6. After my "do-most-of-it-myself" build out we weigh 1000 pounds empty with the Engle MT 35 portable compressor refrigerator and cushions on board. The Eagle is permanently mounted so I upgraded the suspension to 4 leafs rated at 1500 pounds and the tires to LT265x75R16. the axels are rated at 5800 pounds, tires to 6,000 pounds. I estimate my "travelin'" weight with food, water, clothes, two of us at 5800 - 6,000 pounds. Brakes stop it with no fade and the truck sits leveled.

Since its a Toyota and it is only overloaded 30 days or so a year, I will still probably get 25 years or so of use before we break something expensive. . If you are worried about the weight buy a 3/4 ton truck with a Granby or Hawk.

 

[Ronanmd1]

Ed - I faced a very similar issue with my recent FWC purchase. I love the Tacoma, but was too worried about the weight issue. Unlike most, I tend to travel heavy. I ended up ordering a pretty much loaded Hawk and put it on a 2013 Ram 2500. During recent trips, I was loaded with gear... bikes inside, ski box up top with fishing equip, plenty of wine and scotch etc and pulling a Sankey trailer for the Kayak. No regrets. I don't even notice the extra payload weight climbing over the passes in BC and Montana. Cruising in style...The only sacrifice is my 'offroadability'. This is less maneuverable and 'thrashable' than my prior set-up. I am used to a Defender 110 with rooftop tent but my wife wanted (well kind of insisted on) something more civilized.

So far, I have been very happy with the choice.

Jason

 

[alano]

Went through this calculation a couple of months back but had the luxury of not having a pickup yet. Weight of shell vs larded up Hawk, determined whether we got 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck. We decided on lard and 3/4 ton as our idea of keeping it simple is not having to move things around and set up stuff. We can stop, empty the aisle, pop the top and pop the beers in about 10 minutes when we're in proper form. You talk about a lot of extra stuff (bikes, kayaks, etc) so I'm thinking you'd be best off with a shell and try and minimize your weight almost like you would for backpacking.

You may be able to, in effect, swap your truck for a used 3/4 ton if you would have to put a lot of money into tires, suspension upgrades and whatnot. Gas mileage sucks but going to be safer especially on long trips to Alaska. Then you could recalibrate your thinking from weight to the three C's: capability, convenience and comfort.

Alan

 

[Bread]

I guess in the end it's gonna be more important for us to bring along our gear vs having luxury.

I really love our Tacoma and think they look sweet hauling a FWC, but I'm somewhat open to exploring alternatives. A 3/4 ton truck seems cost prohibitive, purchase and gas mileage wise. I suppose I'd be in better shape with a Tundra or F150?

 

[Bwht4x4]

I'm not sure a 3/4 ton truck with a diesel is going to be prohibitive MPG wise. My Dodge Ram 2500 diesel has equal or better mileage than my buddy's Four Runner and Tundra. You couldn't pay me to go back to a smaller and powerless truck after owning my current truck.

Cost though could be prohibitive. My used 2005 that I bought in 2012 had 65,000 mi and I paid $27,500 for it.

 

[leadsled9]

Just the fact that you seem so concerned about weight makes me think you will outgrow the smaller rig pretty quickly.

I moved from a 1/2 ton truck up to 3/4 ton and would never consider moving back down in size. The 3/4 ton truck hauls the load much better and more importantly it stops the load much better.

Here is something else to consider. When you start dumping a lot of weight on a truck that has a gas motor the mileage takes a bigger hit than when you dump the same weight on a diesel.

Don't get me wrong....I love my Tundra and have been a Toyota guy for the past 4 trucks....it's just a matter of getting the right tool for the job.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

I guess in the end it's gonna be more important for us to bring along our gear vs having luxury.

I really love our Tacoma and think they look sweet hauling a FWC, but I'm somewhat open to exploring alternatives. A 3/4 ton truck seems cost prohibitive, purchase and gas mileage wise. I suppose I'd be in better shape with a Tundra or F150?There are a lot of pop up campers on non 3/4 ton trucks.

IMO there are a lot of 1/2 tons carrying pop up campers.These small campers were made for the smaller trucks and seem to work.
What is the GVW of a 3/4? I know that the 3/4s
have heavy duty rear ends and so forth but in the end you still may be over GVW. After all the difference between a 1/2 and 3/4 is #500.
I weighed my Tundra loaded added two people and came out to about #6500.
Yes it's over the GVW,but if that was a super issue why are so many small trucks carrying around Bobcats,Hawks and Eagles?
I am very happy with my rig and know the limitations and drive accordingly.
Frank

 

[Bwht4x4]

I agree they work, but I will always take a truck that has the ability to haul and tow more when I can.

Here's the specs for my truck. It's saying I have a payload capacity of 2,187, which is A LOT heavier than an optioned-out wet weight Hawk, which I'm guessing to be around 1300 to 1500 lbs. Almost an 700 lb difference. Even with all my gear I won't come close to the GVWR of 9,000 lbs. And as someone said earlier, this amount of weight on a 3/4 ton barely affects acceleration or MPG. That much weight on a smaller 1/2 ton would likely exceed GVWR, require suspension upgrades and greatly reduced MPG. The new Tundra's only have a 7,000 lb GVWR and a payload rating of 1,505 lbs.

2005 dodge ram 2500 pickup 2500 SLT, QUAD CAB, 4WD, 6.25 Ft Bed, 4-Speed Automatic Transmission, 5.9L High-Output Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine:

With 3.73 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/vehic...esel+Engine%5E4-Speed+Automatic+Transmission# You Can Tow 13050 lbs

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/vehic...esel+Engine%5E4-Speed+Automatic+Transmission# = 9000 lbs

Payload http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/vehic...esel+Engine%5E4-Speed+Automatic+Transmission# = 2187 lbs

Curb Weight http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/vehic...esel+Engine%5E4-Speed+Automatic+Transmission# = 6813 lbs

Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4140 lbs/4140 lbs

GAWR Front/Rear http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/vehic...esel+Engine%5E4-Speed+Automatic+Transmission# = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) http://www.dodge.com/towing/D/vehic...esel+Engine%5E4-Speed+Automatic+Transmission# = 20000 lbs

 

[leadsled9]

The GVWR on my truck is 10,000 lbs.



It just depends on how heavy your camper is and how much stuff you haul. Lots of folks travel light and the 1/2 ton is fine for them.

I am not a fan of overloading a vehicles GVWR.

 

[rotti]

After all the difference between a 1/2 and 3/4 is #500.

It all comes down to that magical yellow payload door sticker.
Everything else is smoke and mirrors.

My sticker shows a payload capacity of 2870 lbs.
I like to have an excess of capacity.....probably around 900 lbs.
Some don't mind being well over.
To each there own. Be safe out there.