Solo Traveling While Female

[teledork]

Too many people. Too many widely distributed media examples of public rage with no penalty for that behavior, in fact just the opposite, often a fan base develops.

It is cultural IMO. A culture of impunity and as you said - a fan base. A culture which is entertained by violence and - this will be my only mention because it can become a real dark and disgusting rabbit hole - specifically the violence against women that is legally filmed and used for (mostly) male entertainment.

It seems that these are little boys that want to feel powerful but they are really just thin skinned cowards. Prove your virility by whooping it up on a 62 year old, 5'2" 120 pound woman? Oh yeah - what a "man".

 

[Vic Harder]

That is why the order of things is

1.) Try to ignore or reason with them depending on the situation

If I may make a suggestion?

Reason is not helpful in de-escalating a situation. Meeting a person where they are at can be helpful. That means connecting with them emotionally. Two books that I have used as resources on this approach are:

NonViolent Communication - Marshall Rosenberg - https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Life-Changing-Relationships/dp/189200528X

Fred Kofman - Conscious Business (especially the chapters on negotiation) - https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Business-Build-through-Values/dp/1622032020/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=fred+kofman&qid=1595872947&s=books&sr=1-1


Vic

 

[Happyjax]

I'm not sure I would go to reason but do the apologetic I'm so sorry I did not mean to breathe in your space....... well it could also be.... what the hell do you think you're doing??? Guess it depends which one of me shows up....lmao

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Thanks to all for the great responses to Teledork's story.
IMO just be safe out there.
Frank

 

[teledork]

I’m glad you did post your experiences. It reminds us all to be vigilant, and hopefully to look out for one another when we are out and about. It also took a lot of courage to bring up a topic like misogyny.

This is the kind of thing that makes this forum real special. I don't feel particularly courageous but I do feel the - if not me then who? - kind of thing.

 

[teledork]

I'm not sure I would go to reason but do the apologetic I'm so sorry I did not mean to breathe in your space....... well it could also be.... what the hell do you think you're doing??? Guess it depends which one of me shows up....lmao

Ha! As I have continued to process this event I do recall saying to one of the guys, "what the hell is wrong with you?" I also called them "sweetie". Yeah - which one of me indeed? Ha!

 

[Smokecreek1]

Thank you for posting this. It seems that we all have to have some type of plan to survive out there these days. I'm a retired male BLM employee and remember .when we first began to get lot',s of female field employees in the late 70's and how my older bosses reacted to the sudden infusion. Like many of the newer BLM "ologists" hired to implement a whole bunch of new laws that seemed to flood the BLM at the time and were upsetting how things were done, I was used to working with women and even having them for bosses. In my outfit the only women until then were clerks who were required to wear dresses. And here came a whole bunch of them!

Working in the field whether male or female meant following certain protocols like trying to avoid bad situations in the first place (situational analysis) and if you could not the customer was always right . We always tried to work in teams but there many situations were we worked alone. In both of my last two Districts all new employees were sort of mentored in field techniques before they were turned loose . In both Districts, management sort of suggested to our new female employees (and some males too) that since there were so many unknowns out there and so many dead zones with no radio reception that they should go get a good field dog. A good dog whether the danger was a animal or human , could give those seconds you need to climb a tree or get out of danger or by just by being there could keep a situation from happening. I have always had a field dog in both work and play although from what I hear today some political hack made a determination that only rescue and law enforcement now could have dogs.

So, as suggested by many in this thread, (1) avoidance is the best way out of trouble, and (2),if you can't talk your way out, (3) have a dog, (4) wasp spray instead of my usual bear spay (maybe a can of both?) and if they still try to break in your pop-ups door, and despite the problems they present-a good ax or sometimes- gun! I realize that not being a women I will never the additional problems that means that could destroy a trip to the woods. Most people that go to the woods, that I know, whether male or female , do know what they are doing: it is unfortunate that there are more and more of those who don't know and don't care are finding their way into out play places and we have to be prepared for them.

Smoke

 

[teledork]

If I may make a suggestion?

Reason is not helpful in de-escalating a situation. Meeting a person where they are at can be helpful. That means connecting with them emotionally. Two books that I have used as resources on this approach are:

NonViolent Communication - Marshall Rosenberg - https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Life-Changing-Relationships/dp/189200528X

Fred Kofman - Conscious Business (especially the chapters on negotiation) - https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Business-Build-through-Values/dp/1622032020/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=fred+kofman&qid=1595872947&s=books&sr=1-1


Vic

From a DV counselor: "you cannot reason with an unreasonable person".

The Rosenberg book has been mentioned in my Sangha (Buddhist community) I just ordered a copy.

The concept of meeting someone where they is both important and difficult. I've used it in a therapeutic situation when bodywork results in emotional release. The manner in which it could be used to diffuse a situation is probably similar to talking someone down off a ledge. You have provided a banquet for thought here!

 

[teledork]

Please don't let these awful incidents keep you from getting out.

I read your post to Julie as she has a couple female friends that are getting out on their own. She's working her mind around it. In fact she's sharing your story with one friend on the phone now.

I'm curious what they'll come up with. You have generated good discussion, thank you.

Our best to you.

I'll be interested in what Julie and her friends come up with too. I won't quit going out. I will quit Saturdays though. Laundry has to be done sometime.

 

[AWG_Pics]

From a DV counselor: "you cannot reason with an unreasonable person".

I have been trained, maybe over-trained, in management, supervisory, conflict management, risk communication and such. An important consideration is that roughly 5% of all people have a somewhat short term bout of mental illness and roughly 2% of people are pegged hard over into always crazy. In either case, none of the nifty conflict management, de-escalation techniques will work. Your best hope is to get away as quickly as possible.

 

[teledork]

I have been trained, maybe over-trained, in management, supervisory, conflict management, risk communication and such. An important consideration is that roughly 5% of all people have a somewhat short term bout of mental illness and roughly 2% of people are pegged hard over into always crazy. In either case, none of the nifty conflict management, de-escalation techniques will work. Your best hope is to get away as quickly as possible.

Only 2%? But joking aside - as I told someone one time - I'm a runner. I learned the hard way that sometimes nothing else works.

 

[Bseek]

Teledork- so sorry you ran up against the crazies, but don’t let them keep you down. Get out, keep calm, remember that your fears are rarely ever realized, but listen to your gut.

I am a female solo traveler, and have never run up against anything like you described. But I will admit I haven’t been out much since Covid. Sounds like you did everything right, but suffered retribution anyway. But are you going to let them win, or keep doing what you want to do?

Some great comments here. I have always been so impressed with the quality of guys on WTW. Not your average Joes. They welcome the rare female voice here. I will be awaiting the report back from Julies friends.

I too refuse to go the firearm route. But I do sleep with mace and a knife handy. One of the reasons I let go of my beloved ATC Bobcat was that I couldn’t get from back to front without exiting.

Thank you for sharing your story. We can all benefit from the experience, and think through options in advance to be prepared.

 

[AWG_Pics]

Only 2%? But joking aside - as I told someone one time - I'm a runner. I learned the hard way that sometimes nothing else works.

As a student employee for the U. S. Geological Survey back in the 70's, I had a chance to meet some of the old-timers. One of my favorites that had been there since the dawn of everything, was Cecil A Thomas, he initialed everything CAT, so you just knew he was cool. He told me and two other student interns once about how he (at about 5 ft 2 inches and 80 years old) "...used to be a great guy in a fight, (pause for effect) for the first hundred yards!"

Wisdom, wrapped in humor! Best wishes for your further adventures.

 

[Vic Harder]

From a DV counselor: "you cannot reason with an unreasonable person".

The Rosenberg book has been mentioned in my Sangha (Buddhist community) I just ordered a copy.

The concept of meeting someone where they is both important and difficult. I've used it in a therapeutic situation when bodywork results in emotional release. The manner in which it could be used to diffuse a situation is probably similar to talking someone down off a ledge. You have provided a banquet for thought here!

There is a powerful story in the book about a lady who talks down an addict who has a knife at her throat. Took her 30 minutes, and we don't know about folks who may have tried it and it didn't work but still.

 

[teledork]

Teledork- so sorry you ran up against the crazies, but don’t let them keep you down. Get out, keep calm, remember that your fears are rarely ever realized, but listen to your gut.

I am a female solo traveler, and have never run up against anything like you described. But I will admit I haven’t been out much since Covid. Sounds like you did everything right, but suffered retribution anyway. But are you going to let them win, or keep doing what you want to do?

Some great comments here. I have always been so impressed with the quality of guys on WTW. Not your average Joes. They welcome the rare female voice here. I will be awaiting the report back from Julies friends.

I too refuse to go the firearm route. But I do sleep with mace and a knife handy. One of the reasons I let go of my beloved ATC Bobcat was that I couldn’t get from back to front without exiting.

Thank you for sharing your story. We can all benefit from the experience, and think through options in advance to be prepared.

I was a little disappointed that the Bobcat lacks a slider window - but mostly because of the dogs. I had a 4wheel camper with a slider for 12 years. Yes. I left the slider unlatched at night so I could crawl through if necessary but, as you said, my fears were never realized.

There are some things I am willing to let go of. I don't know if I will ever go back to Horseshoe Meadows. I have always hated that road (I worked for the Forest Service in that area for a couple of years) and the risk, as small as it may be, of sharing it with sociopaths just isn't worth it for me. But for the most part I am far too stubborn to let "them win".

But yeah - being proactive. I now have a can of wasp spray in one of my many cupholders and I could not sleep last night so I was watching Youtube videos on techniques for increasing accuracy with a slingshot.

A line from a song I wrote many years ago: "I don't want to hurt nobody, I just want to make them dance".

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Great attitude,don't let them get you down.
I like that line from the song you wrote.
Frank

 

[teledork]

I think I'd have invited the Sheriff over for a chat. I'm sorry you keep meeting these whackos. It was truly a crazy weekend.

I heard from a friend in Mammoth (who has a scanner) just how crazy it was. If you know the beach on June Lake - illegal parking, people unable to leave because they were blocked in, 600! - yes, 600 people on the beach including - and I think this wins the prize - a couple of families riding ATVs on that same beach! Apparently FS called in assistance from Mono County Sheriff and Mammoth PD to clear and close the beach altogether. There is an entrance booth which I'll bet is not being staffed so the typical humanoid anarchy ensued.

People are leaving campfires burning and human excrement and trash everywhere. Someone had a tent set up between two businesses right on Hwy 203 in town and others had driven in on a hiking trail to set up camp. There were numerous SAR calls and a multi-car accident (with1 fatality and 7 other injuries) involving a cow. MLPD issued more speeding tickets than they ever have in a single day. Law enforcement was called to a Mammoth motel when a customer flat out refused to follow the mask rules and refused to take his refunded money and leave.

This is why we can't have nice things.

edit to add: the multi -car accident, the four in one vehicle (including the fatality) - none were wearing seat belts and there may not have been a cow

I'm going backpacking - put at least 15 miles between me and the loonies.

 

[teledork]

Great attitude,don't let them get you down.
I like that line from the song you wrote.
Frank

That line was written after a day of practice when I kept shooting the dirt below the target. As my dad pointed out it was because I was pulling instead of squeezing the trigger. BASS - breath, aim, sight, squeeze. I got better.

 

[Happyjax]

This is what happens when you try to "reason" with children instead of a smack on the butt or everything is pass/fail and you just don't fail anyone because it would be bad for their self esteem.... What self esteem! Takes work and effort to have that....! We have created a couple generations of it's not my responsibility or fault kids....

 

[teledork]

This is what happens when you try to "reason" with children instead of a smack on the butt or everything is pass/fail and you just don't fail anyone because it would be bad for their self esteem.... What self esteem! Takes work and effort to have that....! We have created a couple generations of it's not my responsibility or fault kids....

Yup. I taught elementary school. I did not retire - I quit.