CamperCamper
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2015
- Messages
- 122
This post is written to help someone trying to decide if the suspension modified Tundra platform will accommodate their needs for an off road vehicle on which to mount a FWC. I know it is long and I will do my best imitation of brevity but if you read it through, you will find some nuggets of truth.
The post is not a discussion of the pros and cons of the 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton chassis debate. You can find that discussion ad nauseum throughout the forum so please do not turn it into that with those types of comments. Rather, if you want to comment, please add your experiences with the platform you chose and how it best served your needs.
I read most and probably all of the vehicle size, GVWR discussions last spring/summer while I was trying to figure out the best platform for me given what I wanted to do with a Four Wheel Camper. And, I will admit it was downright confusing at times I encourage any other newcomer to read through the same discussions and impassioned debates that you will find on the topic. The posts will help you to make an informed decision for yourself. At the end of the day, your decision will be driven, I suspect, as mine was by what is right for you.
I have now completed three fairly long trips since last September and have already logged 15,000 miles on many different types of roads with my Tundra/Hawk combination. The first was to Salt Lake City (1500 miles) where I purchased a slightly used 2014 Hawk to place on a new 2015 Tundra. The second and third trips were of 3 weeks each and 2500 and 3500 miles respectively. The remainder of the miles were logged driving me and the camper back and forth to the Central Valley for the duck hunting season.
The first pleasure trip was from San Francisco to Moab, UT in September 2015 and I just returned from the longer trip to the tip of Baja and back. Each trip presented its' own challenges in terms of access to food, water, shelter, terrain and weather. I will share my experiences and explain how my Tundra/Hawk has exceeded every expectation I had when choosing this vehicle/camper combination.
I started out knowing I wanted a truck camper. Choosing the FWC was a journey of its own but I could not be happier. There are plenty of good write ups from others on that topic. The next decision was choosing the length of the bed (Grandby or Hawk decision) that would best suit my needs. At the end of the day, the shorter wheel base and its suitability for sneaking into tight off road situations and its' urban maneuverability (think grocery store parking in large urban areas) won out over the extra comfort of a larger interior space. Besides, I am not one to sit around when out camping. Most of my time is spent outdoors and I typically do not care if it is wet, cold, hot or otherwise.
The next decision was about truck size and weight considerations. The dreaded GVWR decision! For me, in the end, I knew I would rather be wearing out a Toyota than a Ford, Dodge or Chevy. Personal preference at its' best. That's not to say I was not thorough, as I did test drive, study and consider all 4 platforms. So I knew I needed to find a way to make the 1/2 ton Tundra work for me! In support of the Tundra, I will say that the brakes and everything else about the truck is hugely oversized when compared to the domestic trucks of the same size. Some say it is built like a 3/4 ton. I will tell you from personal experience that it is true in every way except for the suspension. It is soft and spongy when it comes from the factory. But, I have been a car dealer for over 30 years and I can say from vast experience that they all are. It's the only way most guys can convince their partners to buy a truck as a daily driver! Somebody in the decision matrix always opts for the cushy ride! They don't build them (1/2 tons) like trucks any more. They are built to ride like passenger cars and that is the reason you will need to modify the suspension.
For my first trip-the trip to Salt Lake City for the purchase, I added E rated tires, Firestone Ride Rites and the TRD sway bar. I went straight to the tire store and replaced the tires in the first week. BTW, I sold the takeoffs for a pretty good price on Craigslist in a week so the upgrade was fairly inexpensive! I bought the air bags and the sway bar (OEM) from Amazon and a fifth TRD wheel from eBay so I could have a matching spare and do a 5 wheel rotation every 5k miles. A buddy helped with the installation of the two after market parts and we knocked it off in a few hours-pretty straight forward stuff. For the trip out, the empty 2015 Tundra 4x4 TRD LIMITED 5.7L Double Cab cave me 16 mpg averaging 70 mph and on the way back my mileage dropped to 15 mpg. The Tundra hardly knew the Hawk was on its back. The Hawk is very well equipped and the weight sticker said it weighed 850 lbs. The truck weighed in at 6200 lbs with me and the wife and a full tank of fuel so even after adding the Hawk we were still under the GVWR of 7200 lbs. The air bags were inflated to 30 psi on the left and 20 psi on the right and the rig was brought right back up to factory height before the camper went in.
The trip to Moab in September of 2015 is where things started to get interesting. We did a 10 day canoe trip on the Green River so in addition to a full camper (propane, 26 gals water food etc) we carried an additional 21 gallons of fresh water for the canoe trip, lots of canned food for the 10 days etc. Boy was I shocked when I hit the CAT scale on the way out of town! I knew I was in trouble when I had to inflate the air bags to 60 psi left and 50 psi right to bring the truck rear up to within 1/2 inch of factory ride height empty. We came in at 8400 lbs, a full 1200 lbs over factory gvwr! I kept the speed down to 60, increased my follow distance, used the tow haul feature which helped brake in the mountain descents and curves but still felt the bounciness of the bags being inflated that much. What happens with that much air in the bags, you end up taking the weight off of the springs and the bags end up supporting the entire load. No es bueno!
I knew that the trip to Mexico this month was going to be more demanding in terms of roads and terrain since we planned to be off road for at least 500 miles and would need to bring along as much gear as the Moab trip. I knew I needed a better suspension solution because I was worried about an air bag leak, puncture, air bag bracket bolt shear from wheel articulation etc, etc etc.
I spent at least 20 hours researching, talking to folks etc when I stumbled into Jeff Deaver from Deaver Springs in Santa Ana, CA. I know the rest of this post is going to sound like a paid political post (the election time cynic in me just came out) but it is the straight up truth that one 10 minute conversation with Jeff put my mind to rest that I had found the best solution for my set up.
I decided to ask Deaver to spring the truck to carry a 8000 lb load and make up the balance of the load with the air bags. I won't always carry this much gear and I do want a smoth ride when not fully loaded. Deaver Springs installed two additional leaves to my factory springs and we kept the air bags installed. The drive through Mexico felt like the first trip home from Salt Lake City with no gear and only the camper. The air bags were inflated to 15 psi left and 10 psi right and the springs carried the weight like they are supposed to do. I choose to go with both air bags and the spring upgrade because I wanted to be able to take the camper off the truck at times and not need a kidney belt from the stiffness of the suspension jolting me as I drove down the road. The CAT scale found my rig to come in at the same 8400 lbs fully loaded as the Moab trip but the improvement in ride was spectacular! The springs upgrade and air bags were the right combination for my needs! And BTW, the Tundra still logged over 15mpg on this trip despite sometimes seeing speeds of 70 mph!
The additional springs added to the spring pack required a modification to the air bag brackets as they were perched above the axle when the springs went back on the truck. In addition, we changed out the bracket bolts and replaced them with grade 8 bolts since the factory Firestone bolts are too weak and will snap! Deavers handled that like the champs they are without skipping a beat. If I ever decide I need a winch for the front or want to do an Ikon etc upgrade to the front suspension, they can adjust the leaves again to accommodate the new front height. These guys are straight up custom and very easy to work with. They ship nationwide or you can visit their shop in So Cal. And their prices are very fair too!
The attached pictures show the install from Deavers and how they modified the air bag bracket. I hope someone finds this information helpful while making the right decision for their unique situation!
Front of Deaver's shop:
Jeff Deaver is the fifth generation owner of this family run business:
Saul and the air bag bracket mod:
Joe checking the correct arch in the new leaves:
Deaver Springs uses an old school cold roller to custom shape the spring pack to each customer's specific needs.
Adding 2 leaves to the stock 2015 Tundra rear spring pack created a problem with the stock air bag bracket. The bracket should rest firmly on the top of the axle.
This is a shot of the completed bracket modification.
New bracket sitting properly atop axle and ready to get bolted in.
One Happy Camper!! Thanks Jeff and the guys at Deaver Springs!!
The post is not a discussion of the pros and cons of the 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton chassis debate. You can find that discussion ad nauseum throughout the forum so please do not turn it into that with those types of comments. Rather, if you want to comment, please add your experiences with the platform you chose and how it best served your needs.
I read most and probably all of the vehicle size, GVWR discussions last spring/summer while I was trying to figure out the best platform for me given what I wanted to do with a Four Wheel Camper. And, I will admit it was downright confusing at times I encourage any other newcomer to read through the same discussions and impassioned debates that you will find on the topic. The posts will help you to make an informed decision for yourself. At the end of the day, your decision will be driven, I suspect, as mine was by what is right for you.
I have now completed three fairly long trips since last September and have already logged 15,000 miles on many different types of roads with my Tundra/Hawk combination. The first was to Salt Lake City (1500 miles) where I purchased a slightly used 2014 Hawk to place on a new 2015 Tundra. The second and third trips were of 3 weeks each and 2500 and 3500 miles respectively. The remainder of the miles were logged driving me and the camper back and forth to the Central Valley for the duck hunting season.
The first pleasure trip was from San Francisco to Moab, UT in September 2015 and I just returned from the longer trip to the tip of Baja and back. Each trip presented its' own challenges in terms of access to food, water, shelter, terrain and weather. I will share my experiences and explain how my Tundra/Hawk has exceeded every expectation I had when choosing this vehicle/camper combination.
I started out knowing I wanted a truck camper. Choosing the FWC was a journey of its own but I could not be happier. There are plenty of good write ups from others on that topic. The next decision was choosing the length of the bed (Grandby or Hawk decision) that would best suit my needs. At the end of the day, the shorter wheel base and its suitability for sneaking into tight off road situations and its' urban maneuverability (think grocery store parking in large urban areas) won out over the extra comfort of a larger interior space. Besides, I am not one to sit around when out camping. Most of my time is spent outdoors and I typically do not care if it is wet, cold, hot or otherwise.
The next decision was about truck size and weight considerations. The dreaded GVWR decision! For me, in the end, I knew I would rather be wearing out a Toyota than a Ford, Dodge or Chevy. Personal preference at its' best. That's not to say I was not thorough, as I did test drive, study and consider all 4 platforms. So I knew I needed to find a way to make the 1/2 ton Tundra work for me! In support of the Tundra, I will say that the brakes and everything else about the truck is hugely oversized when compared to the domestic trucks of the same size. Some say it is built like a 3/4 ton. I will tell you from personal experience that it is true in every way except for the suspension. It is soft and spongy when it comes from the factory. But, I have been a car dealer for over 30 years and I can say from vast experience that they all are. It's the only way most guys can convince their partners to buy a truck as a daily driver! Somebody in the decision matrix always opts for the cushy ride! They don't build them (1/2 tons) like trucks any more. They are built to ride like passenger cars and that is the reason you will need to modify the suspension.
For my first trip-the trip to Salt Lake City for the purchase, I added E rated tires, Firestone Ride Rites and the TRD sway bar. I went straight to the tire store and replaced the tires in the first week. BTW, I sold the takeoffs for a pretty good price on Craigslist in a week so the upgrade was fairly inexpensive! I bought the air bags and the sway bar (OEM) from Amazon and a fifth TRD wheel from eBay so I could have a matching spare and do a 5 wheel rotation every 5k miles. A buddy helped with the installation of the two after market parts and we knocked it off in a few hours-pretty straight forward stuff. For the trip out, the empty 2015 Tundra 4x4 TRD LIMITED 5.7L Double Cab cave me 16 mpg averaging 70 mph and on the way back my mileage dropped to 15 mpg. The Tundra hardly knew the Hawk was on its back. The Hawk is very well equipped and the weight sticker said it weighed 850 lbs. The truck weighed in at 6200 lbs with me and the wife and a full tank of fuel so even after adding the Hawk we were still under the GVWR of 7200 lbs. The air bags were inflated to 30 psi on the left and 20 psi on the right and the rig was brought right back up to factory height before the camper went in.
The trip to Moab in September of 2015 is where things started to get interesting. We did a 10 day canoe trip on the Green River so in addition to a full camper (propane, 26 gals water food etc) we carried an additional 21 gallons of fresh water for the canoe trip, lots of canned food for the 10 days etc. Boy was I shocked when I hit the CAT scale on the way out of town! I knew I was in trouble when I had to inflate the air bags to 60 psi left and 50 psi right to bring the truck rear up to within 1/2 inch of factory ride height empty. We came in at 8400 lbs, a full 1200 lbs over factory gvwr! I kept the speed down to 60, increased my follow distance, used the tow haul feature which helped brake in the mountain descents and curves but still felt the bounciness of the bags being inflated that much. What happens with that much air in the bags, you end up taking the weight off of the springs and the bags end up supporting the entire load. No es bueno!
I knew that the trip to Mexico this month was going to be more demanding in terms of roads and terrain since we planned to be off road for at least 500 miles and would need to bring along as much gear as the Moab trip. I knew I needed a better suspension solution because I was worried about an air bag leak, puncture, air bag bracket bolt shear from wheel articulation etc, etc etc.
I spent at least 20 hours researching, talking to folks etc when I stumbled into Jeff Deaver from Deaver Springs in Santa Ana, CA. I know the rest of this post is going to sound like a paid political post (the election time cynic in me just came out) but it is the straight up truth that one 10 minute conversation with Jeff put my mind to rest that I had found the best solution for my set up.
I decided to ask Deaver to spring the truck to carry a 8000 lb load and make up the balance of the load with the air bags. I won't always carry this much gear and I do want a smoth ride when not fully loaded. Deaver Springs installed two additional leaves to my factory springs and we kept the air bags installed. The drive through Mexico felt like the first trip home from Salt Lake City with no gear and only the camper. The air bags were inflated to 15 psi left and 10 psi right and the springs carried the weight like they are supposed to do. I choose to go with both air bags and the spring upgrade because I wanted to be able to take the camper off the truck at times and not need a kidney belt from the stiffness of the suspension jolting me as I drove down the road. The CAT scale found my rig to come in at the same 8400 lbs fully loaded as the Moab trip but the improvement in ride was spectacular! The springs upgrade and air bags were the right combination for my needs! And BTW, the Tundra still logged over 15mpg on this trip despite sometimes seeing speeds of 70 mph!
The additional springs added to the spring pack required a modification to the air bag brackets as they were perched above the axle when the springs went back on the truck. In addition, we changed out the bracket bolts and replaced them with grade 8 bolts since the factory Firestone bolts are too weak and will snap! Deavers handled that like the champs they are without skipping a beat. If I ever decide I need a winch for the front or want to do an Ikon etc upgrade to the front suspension, they can adjust the leaves again to accommodate the new front height. These guys are straight up custom and very easy to work with. They ship nationwide or you can visit their shop in So Cal. And their prices are very fair too!
The attached pictures show the install from Deavers and how they modified the air bag bracket. I hope someone finds this information helpful while making the right decision for their unique situation!
Front of Deaver's shop:
Jeff Deaver is the fifth generation owner of this family run business:
Saul and the air bag bracket mod:
Joe checking the correct arch in the new leaves:
Deaver Springs uses an old school cold roller to custom shape the spring pack to each customer's specific needs.
Adding 2 leaves to the stock 2015 Tundra rear spring pack created a problem with the stock air bag bracket. The bracket should rest firmly on the top of the axle.
This is a shot of the completed bracket modification.
New bracket sitting properly atop axle and ready to get bolted in.
One Happy Camper!! Thanks Jeff and the guys at Deaver Springs!!