The Advanctrac light is on, 2012 F250 with only 48k miles. Dealer says it's a $2100. repair. I said no, I'll drive it without, I've driven vehicles for years without all that ABS antiroll stuff. Any opinions out there as to my approach? I'd like to hear them. I'm a bit soured on modern technology right now, just replaced a expensive 3 yr old refrigerator last week. Thanks for letting me vent.
Tired of High Tech
- Thread starter Beach
- Start date
DavidGraves
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2016
- Messages
- 1,270
Beach
The check engine light on my Toyota seems to come on in response to changes in atmospheric pressure and altitude......you know what .... so be it.
David Graves
The check engine light on my Toyota seems to come on in response to changes in atmospheric pressure and altitude......you know what .... so be it.
David Graves
Stan@FourWheel
Senior Member
Agreed. X 2
I don't like all of the gadgets and computerization in the newest vehicles.
I don't need my vehicle to try and outsmart me or think for me.
If I have electric windows, air conditioner, fuel injection, and 4 wheel drive, I'm happy.
And I want to be able to work on my own vehicle when needed. Most new cars and trucks are really hard to work on.
.
.
I don't like all of the gadgets and computerization in the newest vehicles.
I don't need my vehicle to try and outsmart me or think for me.
If I have electric windows, air conditioner, fuel injection, and 4 wheel drive, I'm happy.
And I want to be able to work on my own vehicle when needed. Most new cars and trucks are really hard to work on.
.
.
craig333
Riley's Human
Kind of wish the truck had electric windows. The Jeep is easy to work on. The Jeep you have to work on No hundred thousand miles service intervals on that beast.
No hundred thousand miles service intervals on that beast.PackRat
Senior Member
You mean the "Check Your Wallet Light"?
Me, I don't not have a truck with traction control, but it is my nature to have things working as they should. I'd start with research such as -
https://www.f150forum.com/f38/has-anyone-seen-dash-warning-service-advancetrac-145017/
and take a hard look at what the dealer wants to repair/replace for $2100. At 48k is your truck out of warranty?
Is another mechanic an option or is it possible to fix it yourself?
I understand your rant. From what I saw on that Ford forum, it looks like the display would take a big piece of duct tape to cover.
Best of luck coming up with a solution. Please keep us posted as we learn from one another.
And, thanks for the reinforcement to keep my old truck running.
https://www.f150forum.com/f38/has-anyone-seen-dash-warning-service-advancetrac-145017/
and take a hard look at what the dealer wants to repair/replace for $2100. At 48k is your truck out of warranty?
Is another mechanic an option or is it possible to fix it yourself?
I understand your rant. From what I saw on that Ford forum, it looks like the display would take a big piece of duct tape to cover.
Best of luck coming up with a solution. Please keep us posted as we learn from one another.
And, thanks for the reinforcement to keep my old truck running.
wuck
Senior Member
Ah, High Tech. It's all so promising. And yet . . .
I am (Well, was) an electronic design engineer. I've designed, prototyped, tested, redesigned and shipped circuits. I have designed, coded, tested, reviewed, fixed and shipped "Apps" before anybody called them "Apps".
My VCR never blinked 12:00 for more than a few minutes.
Now, I am a technophobe. I'm really starting to hate this stuff.
I scream at my F-250 too often. I just want to listen to the radio, but Ford "Sync" is trying to desperately connect to a cell phone that died a horrible death on my mountain bike a year or so back. Or it is trying to read or reply to a text that I couldn't care less about, I'm driving. I want to rip Ford sync out of that truck, impale it with a pickaxe so it will never harm another human again, and replace it with an AM FM radio. But, I'm afraid that will break the truck. Mrs. Wuck would frown on that.
I built a home PC in the early 80's. A Z-80 based CP/M system with 8" floppy discs. I used a 300 baud "Volksmodem" to connect to bulletin boards to get free software and communicate with other nerds. Yay! Then, I got Windows. I got really tired of going thru the headaches of upgrading to Windows.X, then upgrading my PC because the old one didn't have the speed or the memory to run Windows.X. Now, when I have to use Windows (Not often), I get grumpy. It usually starts with having to wait while it "Updates". Why do you need to update NOW? Then, it reboots while I'm trying to work. Then I start screaming, again. Nothing like a tool that keeps you from working. I like playing with hammers and saws now.
That said, I do use Ubuntu / Linux on my PC, and have a lot of appreciation for the folks that make that happen - most often programmers chasing their passion - and not getting paid for it. Yes, Ubuntu also updates regularly. But it asks me nicely first before doing anything, I can dismiss it with a click.
Yes, I have "Smart Phone". I yell at it occasionally too. But, I have very few apps on it. In fact, I can't install any Google apps on it, Google wont let me. Because I use an open-source version of Android, Google doesn't like that 'cause their hooks aren't in it. Well, not all of them anyway.
I do still fix my cars. I really don't like paying mechanics to guess at what is wrong with it, as it seems some of my friends will do. With my background in electronics and automotive (I was also a mechanic while going to college) , EFI was pretty easy to learn, and IMO it is also the best auto invention since the electric starter!
Just call me App-less.
I am (Well, was) an electronic design engineer. I've designed, prototyped, tested, redesigned and shipped circuits. I have designed, coded, tested, reviewed, fixed and shipped "Apps" before anybody called them "Apps".
My VCR never blinked 12:00 for more than a few minutes.
Now, I am a technophobe. I'm really starting to hate this stuff.
I scream at my F-250 too often. I just want to listen to the radio, but Ford "Sync" is trying to desperately connect to a cell phone that died a horrible death on my mountain bike a year or so back. Or it is trying to read or reply to a text that I couldn't care less about, I'm driving. I want to rip Ford sync out of that truck, impale it with a pickaxe so it will never harm another human again, and replace it with an AM FM radio. But, I'm afraid that will break the truck. Mrs. Wuck would frown on that.
I built a home PC in the early 80's. A Z-80 based CP/M system with 8" floppy discs. I used a 300 baud "Volksmodem" to connect to bulletin boards to get free software and communicate with other nerds. Yay! Then, I got Windows. I got really tired of going thru the headaches of upgrading to Windows.X, then upgrading my PC because the old one didn't have the speed or the memory to run Windows.X. Now, when I have to use Windows (Not often), I get grumpy. It usually starts with having to wait while it "Updates". Why do you need to update NOW? Then, it reboots while I'm trying to work. Then I start screaming, again. Nothing like a tool that keeps you from working. I like playing with hammers and saws now.
That said, I do use Ubuntu / Linux on my PC, and have a lot of appreciation for the folks that make that happen - most often programmers chasing their passion - and not getting paid for it. Yes, Ubuntu also updates regularly. But it asks me nicely first before doing anything, I can dismiss it with a click.
Yes, I have "Smart Phone". I yell at it occasionally too. But, I have very few apps on it. In fact, I can't install any Google apps on it, Google wont let me. Because I use an open-source version of Android, Google doesn't like that 'cause their hooks aren't in it. Well, not all of them anyway.
I do still fix my cars. I really don't like paying mechanics to guess at what is wrong with it, as it seems some of my friends will do. With my background in electronics and automotive (I was also a mechanic while going to college) , EFI was pretty easy to learn, and IMO it is also the best auto invention since the electric starter!
Just call me App-less.
wuck
Senior Member
Sorry, got sidetracked, back to trucks -
My dad drove a Taurus that the ABS light came on. The Ford dealer told him he needed a new ABS controller, $2500 for a 8-10 year old car with 120k+ miles on it. It took me some talking, but I convinced him that he was going to be OK driving a car with no ABS, just like he had done for many decades already.
After additional questioning, I found out he had turned left onto a road from a parking lot, and had hit a raised island in the middle of that road pretty hard. Hard enough to split the tire and bend the rim. A few weeks later I visited him, on a hunch I replaced the tone wheel/sensor on that wheel. ABS light went off, it was like $30 and a bit of grunting.
Don't trust the dealer, get a second opinion.
My dad drove a Taurus that the ABS light came on. The Ford dealer told him he needed a new ABS controller, $2500 for a 8-10 year old car with 120k+ miles on it. It took me some talking, but I convinced him that he was going to be OK driving a car with no ABS, just like he had done for many decades already.
After additional questioning, I found out he had turned left onto a road from a parking lot, and had hit a raised island in the middle of that road pretty hard. Hard enough to split the tire and bend the rim. A few weeks later I visited him, on a hunch I replaced the tone wheel/sensor on that wheel. ABS light went off, it was like $30 and a bit of grunting.
Don't trust the dealer, get a second opinion.
ckent323
Senior Member
1993 Dodge Ram W250 Diesel. Intercooled turbo. Manual injector pump. Minimal electronics. Power Windows and door locks, stereo cassette player, analog gauges.
Noisy (fixing that with Sounddeadenershowdown) and it rides like a - well - truck.
Most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. 400,000+ miles and going strong. In the process of refurbishing the interior with new seats along with the sound damping.
New paint on the outside will follow.
I bought it used in 1999 with 125,000 miles on it. I added about 285,000 or so miles over the past 28 years. The engine in these have gone 800,000 - 1,000,000 moles in commercial hauling service.
I maintain it, trust it and can fix it on the road. I will be driving it to Alaska and back towing a 16' enclosed at the end of the Summer (mid Aug to mid Oct).
Should last me another 20 years easy.
P.S. it is a great platform for our 2007 FWC Keystone.
Noisy (fixing that with Sounddeadenershowdown) and it rides like a - well - truck.
Most reliable vehicle I have ever owned. 400,000+ miles and going strong. In the process of refurbishing the interior with new seats along with the sound damping.
New paint on the outside will follow.
I bought it used in 1999 with 125,000 miles on it. I added about 285,000 or so miles over the past 28 years. The engine in these have gone 800,000 - 1,000,000 moles in commercial hauling service.
I maintain it, trust it and can fix it on the road. I will be driving it to Alaska and back towing a 16' enclosed at the end of the Summer (mid Aug to mid Oct).
Should last me another 20 years easy.
P.S. it is a great platform for our 2007 FWC Keystone.
So there seems to be agreement that too much technology is making life worse rather than better, but what's the answer? What's driving the market? Are the members participating in this forum just an anomaly? The trucks keep becoming more and more capable of doing things I have no interest in having done. When those bells and whistles are working, all is right with the world. When they're not, often even the factory wonder wrenches can't fix them. Perhaps folks are simply becoming numb to where this all is headed.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
Tech, especially in vehicles, is a love/hate relationship.
Tech has dramatically increased the intervals between maintenance. But, unfortunately, maintenance is now something that requires access to servers with firmware that can "talk" to your vehicle.
Any one old enough to remember the true muscle cars prior to the Arab Oil Embargo in '73 can appreciate how easy it was to tune your engine. All you needed were 8 spark plugs, new points, condenser, rotor button, distributor cap and paper matchbook cover (yep, .032" thick...what you needed to set the gap on the points). But, your were replacing the points every 3000 miles if not sooner. And, I've had a strong engine just simply quit due to a failed condenser. But, I always knew what was going on and how to fix and always had spare components in the trunk.
Today, that's not going to happen. My now sold '03 F-250 died going down the highway. Turned out the camshaft sensor failed. After checking all fuses and relay, a look under the hood just caused a whole lot of head scratching with Zero results. I guess I should have paid more attention to the Ford recall letter concerning the camshaft sensor I received 6 months earlier!
The CHECK ENGINE light. Can be view many different ways.
1. It is an EPA idiot light.
2. It means I'm not going to pass my next state safety inspection (I no longer have to worry about this one).
3. Or you're engine is about to blow up.
For about $50 you can buy a OBD or OBD2 scanner/reader and read the diagnostic codes and reset the Check Engine Light. If there is a serious mechanical issue, the light will reappear and then you can decide if failed components are a safety factor.
Just be aware, regardless of your state of residence, if you are involved in an accident involving a fatality, the Highway Patrol or appropriate agency WILL scan your vehicle, read the codes and previous resets.
ABS...I know of no state that allows you to operate your vehicle on public highways without factory installed safety devices operating. And ABS is considered safety equipment, just like your seat belts. Obviously if a safety device has failed and you're driving to get the problem fixed is a possible argument for defending the reason one is driving.
Sadly, we no longer live in a day/age where YOU can decide or choose your course of action in public. State and Federal regulations now make the determination for you. Thus, if caught operating a faulty vehicle, the cost can be a mere traffic court appearance or a whole lot more serious venue if injury or death is involved.
I guess you have to determine the amount of risk you're willing to accept. Jail time isn't worth saving $2800 to me.
Case in point and not related to faulty equipment...
A neighbor lost her 4 month old granddaughter in an auto accident. Her son, D-I-L and granddaughter were stopped at a traffic light. A 19yo female, texting while driving, rear ended them doing 45. Never hit her brakes. The baby, securely and properly strapped in her car seat in the back seat died from a broken neck.
Even with the grieving family asking the court for leniency, the 19yo must serve 24 months in prison, 5 years of supervised probation and can not apply for a restricted driver's license until she is 32.
Tech has dramatically increased the intervals between maintenance. But, unfortunately, maintenance is now something that requires access to servers with firmware that can "talk" to your vehicle.
Any one old enough to remember the true muscle cars prior to the Arab Oil Embargo in '73 can appreciate how easy it was to tune your engine. All you needed were 8 spark plugs, new points, condenser, rotor button, distributor cap and paper matchbook cover (yep, .032" thick...what you needed to set the gap on the points). But, your were replacing the points every 3000 miles if not sooner. And, I've had a strong engine just simply quit due to a failed condenser. But, I always knew what was going on and how to fix and always had spare components in the trunk.
Today, that's not going to happen. My now sold '03 F-250 died going down the highway. Turned out the camshaft sensor failed. After checking all fuses and relay, a look under the hood just caused a whole lot of head scratching with Zero results. I guess I should have paid more attention to the Ford recall letter concerning the camshaft sensor I received 6 months earlier!
The CHECK ENGINE light. Can be view many different ways.
1. It is an EPA idiot light.
2. It means I'm not going to pass my next state safety inspection (I no longer have to worry about this one).
3. Or you're engine is about to blow up.
For about $50 you can buy a OBD or OBD2 scanner/reader and read the diagnostic codes and reset the Check Engine Light. If there is a serious mechanical issue, the light will reappear and then you can decide if failed components are a safety factor.
Just be aware, regardless of your state of residence, if you are involved in an accident involving a fatality, the Highway Patrol or appropriate agency WILL scan your vehicle, read the codes and previous resets.
ABS...I know of no state that allows you to operate your vehicle on public highways without factory installed safety devices operating. And ABS is considered safety equipment, just like your seat belts. Obviously if a safety device has failed and you're driving to get the problem fixed is a possible argument for defending the reason one is driving.
Sadly, we no longer live in a day/age where YOU can decide or choose your course of action in public. State and Federal regulations now make the determination for you. Thus, if caught operating a faulty vehicle, the cost can be a mere traffic court appearance or a whole lot more serious venue if injury or death is involved.
I guess you have to determine the amount of risk you're willing to accept. Jail time isn't worth saving $2800 to me.
Case in point and not related to faulty equipment...
A neighbor lost her 4 month old granddaughter in an auto accident. Her son, D-I-L and granddaughter were stopped at a traffic light. A 19yo female, texting while driving, rear ended them doing 45. Never hit her brakes. The baby, securely and properly strapped in her car seat in the back seat died from a broken neck.
Even with the grieving family asking the court for leniency, the 19yo must serve 24 months in prison, 5 years of supervised probation and can not apply for a restricted driver's license until she is 32.
Optimistic Paranoid
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2012
- Messages
- 213
There's at least the possibility that it's as simple as corrosion on wiring harness connecting plugs. I had ABS brakes stop working on two different GM cars, and in both cases, I found a lot of green corrosion on brass pins and plugs.Beach said:
DeOxit is the best electrical cleaner I've ever used. I'd try unplugging and spraying all my connectors to see if that makes the problem go away.
Good Luck!
I seem to always be the contrarian here - I much prefer newer 'high tech' vehicles. They are far more reliable than older purely mechanical vehicles (transistors don't wear down from repeated use), remember when making it 100,000 miles with regular maintenance was a bit of an achievement? Now you expect to make it to 100,000 miles with almost no maintenance. They are also far, far safer.
I also like the fact that the vehicles have On Board Diagnostics and tell you when you have a problem, or when something is out of whack. True, it would be nice if the 'check engine light' would give you a little more feedback as to what the problem is, but a $20 USB OBD dongle and your phone can give you all the detail you need. Cars without detailed OBD have the same problems (leaky evaporative systems, knocking on cylinder 2, low alternator voltage at idle etc), you often just didn't know about it until it left you stranded. If you do have some sort of intermittent issue, the fact that the computer stores the engine data at the moment the problem is detected makes diagnostics sooo much easier.
I also do understand the frustration with learning these new technologies, being a mechanic (shade tree or professional) now means knowing as much about CAN bus as torque settings.
I also like the fact that the vehicles have On Board Diagnostics and tell you when you have a problem, or when something is out of whack. True, it would be nice if the 'check engine light' would give you a little more feedback as to what the problem is, but a $20 USB OBD dongle and your phone can give you all the detail you need. Cars without detailed OBD have the same problems (leaky evaporative systems, knocking on cylinder 2, low alternator voltage at idle etc), you often just didn't know about it until it left you stranded. If you do have some sort of intermittent issue, the fact that the computer stores the engine data at the moment the problem is detected makes diagnostics sooo much easier.
I also do understand the frustration with learning these new technologies, being a mechanic (shade tree or professional) now means knowing as much about CAN bus as torque settings.
alano
Senior Member
I thought we already had a thread for this topic: "You know you're a geezer when..."
Alan
Alan
12valve
Senior Member
I am with you on this one! All I see is a complex item waiting to break and the repair is absurd. Hated my electric hubs so much, I went to old school manual. Far happier. Anybody want my stereo? I can hardly turn the damn thing on, much less figure out to play a CD then switch to my phone. I look under the hood of newer cars and I am scared to death. Makes me want to keep the old Dodge.
ckent323
Senior Member
Rando,
I question the assertion that new tech newer vehicles have improved reliability as a generalization.
Just look at the data and comparative reviews for the 1st gen Dodge diesel trucks vs all subsequent models. They are widely regarded and rated as more reliable and longer lasting.
I do think that the decrease in reliability and life may not be specifically related to the better technology there are other factors like design changes and more recently required emissions control features that play onto the reliability too.
;-)
BTW: The new tech is understandable for me - I used to service my the BOSCH L-jettronic fuel injection system in my Vanagon and have no issue with cold start, O2 and other sensors as long as I have my shop manual and wiring diagrams.
I question the assertion that new tech newer vehicles have improved reliability as a generalization.
Just look at the data and comparative reviews for the 1st gen Dodge diesel trucks vs all subsequent models. They are widely regarded and rated as more reliable and longer lasting.
I do think that the decrease in reliability and life may not be specifically related to the better technology there are other factors like design changes and more recently required emissions control features that play onto the reliability too.
;-)
BTW: The new tech is understandable for me - I used to service my the BOSCH L-jettronic fuel injection system in my Vanagon and have no issue with cold start, O2 and other sensors as long as I have my shop manual and wiring diagrams.
craig333
Riley's Human
It probably wouldn't be worth trying but since my Jeep didn't come with seat belts I technically don't have to wear them.
My 1975 Chevy truck didn't have any safety features (other than seat belts) and its one of the reasons I got rid of it. Anti lock brakes can be annoying at times and I sure hope I never have to test the airbags but I feel a lot safer in my truck. I am glad it doesn't have an "entertainment center" (distractment center imo) . My radio doesn't even have a cd player and thankfully, the tc is a manual, not electric shift.
My Jeep manual lists daily and weekly maintenance. Anyone want to go back to those days?
My 1975 Chevy truck didn't have any safety features (other than seat belts) and its one of the reasons I got rid of it. Anti lock brakes can be annoying at times and I sure hope I never have to test the airbags but I feel a lot safer in my truck. I am glad it doesn't have an "entertainment center" (distractment center imo) . My radio doesn't even have a cd player and thankfully, the tc is a manual, not electric shift.
My Jeep manual lists daily and weekly maintenance. Anyone want to go back to those days?
Craig makes a good point about service intervals - any one taken their car in for a 'tune up' recently? That used to be a 6-12 month requirement in the purely mechanical days. Oil change intervals are up from 3000 miles to 10,000 miles and you don't need a transmission 'flush' every year. I am not saying every modern car is more reliable than every older car, but in general post OBD cars are more reliable than pre-OBD and OBD2 cars are generally even more reliable. Much of the hoopla you hear about 'modern tech' breaking in cars is related to things like the software on the entertainment system and the like, not actual engine/power train/chassis issues.
Good evidence for this is the average age of cars on the road which has had an increasing year/year trend for decades.
Good evidence for this is the average age of cars on the road which has had an increasing year/year trend for decades.
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