Trashcan Mount

[CPT Davenport]

So even when you have your rig (not down river in a canoe, which sounds dreamy by the way!) you still hang trash/food?

I have been evaluating each campsite individually. If it is crawling with activity and I’m the only meal in town, I hang it. In campgrounds there always seems to be other less cautious campers that serve as the low hanging fruit. In this situation I feel ok about storing everything in the cab when no bear box is available.

 

[ckent323]

Vic, et. al,

Black bears are very intelligent and nimble. Hanging food (or trash), even from a tree limb, has been defeated by Bears numerous times.

I have posted elsewhere the techniques they use to defeat food (or trash) hangs. It may work for awhile but once they figure it out then it won't work anymore and how do you know if they have or haven't in the place you are camping?

The sad thing is once a bear iis successful (rewarded) getting food they will likely do it again. That is how problem Bears are created. Keeping food away from Bears is our responsibility. They are just doing what they have evolved to do, which in this context is finding food and they are very good at it.

California State Parks (and other agencies recommend that campers always place trash in bear-resistant dumpsters in campgrounds or in bear-resistant containers at campsites (storage lockers/bear boxes), and close and lock after each use. Never leave scented items unattended in campsites, tents, or vehicles. This includes but is not limited to all sealed or packaged food, sunscreen, soap, mosquito repellent, lip balm, deodorant, medications, and feminine products. The bear canister only works if it is closed and locked.

Many established campgrounds in Bear country have secure trash cans or Bear resistant lockers. They may not be conveniently near but they should still be used, say before going to bed make a trip to the trash cans or bear lockers.

When boondocking in Bear country it may be appropriate to carry a Bear resistant trash container or to put trash items in a separate bag and store it in the Bear resistant container or put the sealed bag inside a vehicle in a container like an ice chest that is placed out of sight. That will depend on if Bears in the area are already habituated or not.

It is always a good idea to check with the local rangers ahead of time for their recommendations about food and trash storage in that particular locale.

Bears are typically most active during the late evening and early morning. You may not see them and if they get into your stuff it will often be at a really inconvenient hour.

By the way I reread what I wrote in a previous comment about putting trash in a bear canister and I revised that comment.



I hope this is helpful.

 

[Vic Harder]

So even when you have your rig (not down river in a canoe, which sounds dreamy by the way!) you still hang trash/food?

It was dreamy! in Campgrounds we used the supplied bear boxes. We have not camped/backpacked/or canoe'd in the last few decades where we could not find bear boxes at approved campsites.

When boondocking in the west we keep all garbage and food and cosmetics in containers and covered in the cab of the truck.

Parks Canada has removed (all?) of the food hangers in recent years.

 

[Dipodomys]

Do locked steel ammo cans count as bear resistant? I’ve been thinking that the seal on those cans should be pretty good (though not perfect) at keeping odors in. I’d really rather not entice bears into breaking into the camper or the cab of the truck, so I’m thinking about food and trash storage outside, maybe 50-100’ from the truck.

 

[CPT Davenport]

Do locked steel ammo cans count as bear resistant? I’ve been thinking that the seal on those cans should be pretty good (though not perfect) at keeping odors in. I’d really rather not entice bears into breaking into the camper or the cab of the truck, so I’m thinking about food and trash storage outside, maybe 50-100’ from the truck.

My thought is that the bear can still smell the contents of the ammo box. I too, am not a big fan of storing things inside the cab. I only do that if the threat is low in the area I'm camping.

Just last weekend my daughter was visiting the in laws up in Humbolt. They spent the night in the house and parked their FWC Hawk out front with the top DOWN. They had a small ziplock bag of dog food left in the little shelf/cubby cabinet on the passenger side of the camper. A black bear gently opened the door, climbed in, ripped the cabinet off the wall, took the food and walked away. The nerve! He didn't even close the door behind him! Good thing the door was unlocked. Only damage was the cabinet.

 

[Dipodomys]

Oh my. That’s exactly the sort of thing we’d like to avoid. Besides ammo cans. We’ve also thought about using a Yeti cooler, since we already have one and they’ve passed live bear testing (when locked). Now I’m wondering about having food in the camper’s fridge! I guess we could transfer refrigerated foods to a cooler for storage outside the camper overnight. Hmm. I’ve lived and camped in the Colorado Rockies most of my life, but never had bear problems, because I’ve been reasonably careful and haven’t been camping in places where bears have learned to associate humans with food, i.e. most of my camping has been boondocks that get relatively little human traffic. We’d like to check out some of the famous places where bears are more of an issue, however, so planning ahead is definitely a priority.

 

[teledork]

Highland Lakes campground. We were awakened at 5 am - the camper rocking and rolling. Looked out, bear had a paw through the wing window in the cab of the truck and was trying to get something done. I yelled, bear ran off, came back - this went on for an hour or so. At some point in time I shut the jalousie window in the camper and the wing windows in the truck.

I no longer have wing windows but I keep that jalousie window closed at night or when I am away from the camper. I also lock the camper and especially the truck after seeing video of a bear opening the door of a Tacoma. I also travel with dogs.

 

[teledork]

Now I’m wondering about having food in the camper’s fridge! I guess we could transfer refrigerated foods to a cooler for storage outside the camper overnight.

Are you taking about putting the food outside while you are asleep? I don't think that would be necessary but (most) campgrounds in heavy bear areas have food storage boxes in each site.

 

[Dipodomys]

I’ll definitely use bear lockers and dumpsters if they’re available, but yes I’m talking about keeping food and trash outside and away fro the truck/camper in the boondocks. Like my wife said, we’d rather have a bear damage a Yeti cooler than our truck or camper. My thinking is informed by years of tent camping, and now thinking that a bear might have a little more trouble getting into a vehicle, but even an unsuccessful effort could be highly inconvenient and expensive.

 

[rubberlegs]

ckent323, what an interesting product you've been involved with. I've used canisters out backpacking a few times and they are a bit difficult to fit in a pack, due to the cylindrical shape. Did you test other shapes, or were you trying to keep the weight as light as possible? As a former aerospace engineer, I understand that cylinders are very strong (unless you are going for the Titanic).

 

[Dipodomys]

Craig, have you considered making a bear resistant container that’s designed less for backpacking and more for vehicle-based camping? I’m thinking of something larger than I’d want to use for backpacking, not quite as bulky as a Yeti cooler, but it wouldn’t need to be super-light. Maybe stackable containers that would pack efficiently into a camper?

 

[CPT Davenport]

Craig, have you considered making a bear resistant container that’s designed less for backpacking and more for vehicle-based camping? I’m thinking of something larger than I’d want to use for backpacking, not quite as bulky as a Yeti cooler, but it wouldn’t need to be super-light. Maybe stackable containers that would pack efficiently into a camper?

+1

 

[ckent323]

Dipodomys, et. al.,

Our patented canister designs employ carbon fiber and custom metal end caps. The purpose is to provide strength while still being quite lightweight. INdeed they are the lightest canisters for their size. As a result they are expensive to produce.

However, we could design and manufacture something heavier that would be cheaper. More weight is not a winner for backpacking but maybe for campers it would work. There are already manufacturers of heavier and larger Bear resistant canisters for horse packing and rafting outfitters so we would probably need to innovate something in order to compete. Also the product development process takes time. I'll talk to my partners and see what they think.

Thanks for asking.


Craig

 

[Dipodomys]

Craig, your canisters look great! I definitely want one for backpacking, and while I appreciate your care not to use this site to promote your business, I think it's appropriate for me to link your website in the context of this thread.

I appreciate you pointing me in the direction of bear resistant dry boxes made for rafting, as that's getting me closer to what I want for the camper. In particular, the IGBC certified dry boxes from Mad Cow Metal Works look like they'll probably work for me. I still need to think through whether another cooler might be a better option due to versatility, though.

In terms of innovations that are lacking in existing products, I'd be happy to help brainstorm. Here are some things that come quickly to mind...

Internal organization, i.e. compartmentalization of some sort. Options for accomplishing this could be inexpensive to produce while adding a lot of value to the product. There seem to be some things available, along the lines of a tray, but there's definitely room for innovation there.

Stackability/lashing. I like to keep the large items in my camper secured in a manner that makes efficient use of space while preventing shifting during rough transit. To this end, I'd love to have a two or three dry boxes that stack, i.e. the base of one nests into the top of the lid of another so that it won't slide off. Additionally, I'd like to secure them to each other and to the floor and a vertical surface with cam straps. I don't think that would necessitate specific attachment points, but it might be worth thinking out where straps would be effective in the design.

Locking. Many bear resistant containers require locking with a key. I'd prefer a keyless lock as I'm generally not concerned with humans removing the contents and keys are just more stuff to deal with and potentially misplace.

 

[ckent323]

Dipodomys,

I have not looked at the pricing of the outfitter Bear resistant boxes in awhile. It appears that they have also gotten pricey.

For general storage of gear, containers like Aluminum Zarges boxes are nice. They stack and are available in many sizes. We use them to ship our spaceborne instrument calibration equipment in. However, I am not at all confident that they would be Bear resistant.

Well I just checked the IGBC list and the Zarges boxes are on it!

https://zargesusa.com/


Craig

 

[Dipodomys]

Those do look good. Thanks!

 

[teledork]

but even an unsuccessful effort could be highly inconvenient and expensive.

I understand. I also, after 50 years of camping and 30 years of living in bear habitat have come to the understanding that they want easy pickings.* I use a bear canister when backpacking because I don't have a vehicle but I would think that a cooler left outside, even a lockable one, could be considered an unnecessary attractant. I've camped in Yellowstone - hard sided camper because they don't allow pop-ups in some campgrounds - and rangers made the rounds every evening. You could not leave anything outside the vehicle.

* example: neighbors above me leaving dog food outside, squatters down the hill leaving everything outside, bears just walked past my fenced garden, orchard and garbage cans in a shed

p.s.s. - maybe I have just been both stupid and lucky in running bears off in several situations but I see video of people abandoning their full picnic table and have heard stories from backpackers who cowered silently in their tent and watched a bear take down their (badly hung) food and I can't help but think how they are contributing to the problem. If you are not in your camper or campsite that is a different problem but we all need to make ourselves and our stuff difficult and perhaps uncomfortable for a bear to obtain.

p.s.s.s. - I just remembered this: cabin in Yosemite Village, mom frying chicken with the kitchen door open for ventilation, bear appears on porch, mom shoos it off with a dish towel - I guess my luck/stupidity is genetic

 

[ckent323]

Never try to take food away from a Bear. Ever!

They can kill you. People have been badly injured and some killed trying to fight a Bear.

Yeah, some people have successfully fought off a Bear. Some people have survived falling out of a plane but that is not an argument to give it a go.

;-)


Once they have your food, it is theirs even if your trip is over as a result.

 

[ski3pin]

Never try to take food away from a Bear. Ever!


Once they have your food, it is theirs even if your trip is over as a result.

Yup, this is what we have taught for years. Say it over and over and over again.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Never try to take food away from a Bear. Ever!

They can kill you. People have been badly injured and some killed trying to fight a Bear.

Yeah, some people have successfully fought off a Bear. Some people have survived falling out of a plane but that is not an argument to give it a go.

;-)


Once they have your food, it is theirs even if your trip is over as a result.

Very sound advice.You cal always buy more food,but try that if your dead.Not so much.
Frank