Truck choices for FWC's?

[Bombsight]

Somebody tell me why some, if not most of y'all, are choosing to put bags on a sub-standard suspension (i.e. Toyota 1/2 tons) instead of choosing a platform degined for a FWC load from the get-go?

I've been driving a sub-compact Toyota for the last 22 years (a '93 model Toyata Truck and a '93 Tacoma).
They were and have been absolutely trouble free (besides a recall on the head gasket on the '93) rigs.
Couldnt be happier! ..... but ....

I just cant imagine myself putting air bags on a Toyota when , in my opinion, a 3/4 or one ton is the most surefire way of eliminating problems with suspension.

Do you guys think that highly of Toyotas? What is a Toyota worth when an "aftermarket suspension" can leave you broke down?

Please dont get me wrong. I'm committed to Toyota. I just dont like the idea of air bags. The American big three cant be all that bad when it comes to dependabilty .... so this issue confuses me.

 

[downhiller37]

For Eliminating problems with suspension you can buy the „surefire“ Toyota ½ ton Truck



[SIZE=12pt]https://youtu.be/sAx84d1y8_s[/SIZE]

 

[iowahiker]

Truck choice depends on your "mission", priorities, and opinions. If your "mission" is to travel the most obscure trails, then the Tacoma is an obvious first choice because of width, wheel base length, reliability and low cost of maintenance/operation. Air bags are generally considered a first choice for short periods of camper mounting while new rear springs are generally considered the better choice for long periods of camper carrying. The Nissan Frontier has a little lower build quality and much higher cost of maintenance (I own an Xterra). Until the new Chevy Colorado, the old I-5 Colorado was under powered and much lower build quality and reliability. The narrow/short wheel base truck can go around trail problems more often which is quicker and more comfortable.

If your "mission" is to have a lot of storage and camper space in remote places than 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks carry bigger cabs and campers but at a higher cost of maintenance and operation.

If your "mission" is to traverse the country with a lot of storage and camper space (my priority), then the payload package (2800lb +/- payload) equipped Ford F-150 regular cab long bed or F-150 extended cab long bed with 36 gallon fuel tank, 5.0l V-8 (better fuel economy than a Tundra) are better choices with lower weight and low cost of maintenance/operation but slightly lower build quality than a Tundra.

 

[Wallowa]

Bomb,

Why do I choose a Tundra...well my Tundra has only 35K miles and it is a "bomb proof" vehicle. This is my third Toyota truck, all bought new, put 150+K on previous ones and they just kept on taking the abuse I gave them...22Rs...

But I am still looking for your real question? Are you asking why we buy Toyota trucks when they are "only" 1/2 ton rated?


RideRites and Hellwig for my '05 just cuz I believe it will improve the handling and level the load without stiffing the spring rate. when I get our new Hawk.

But hey, to each their own!

Phil

 

[Taku]

Easy. I use my Tundra for the camper, but also with a topper to carry boats and work gear. Plus, with the camper, I can be hauling a trailer with boat, or bikes or both. Air bags allow me to adjust the suspension to where I want it. Plus, when I compare the overall cost and repair bills that friends have there larger trucks, it is lot's cheaper. One other point for me - when I take my provided work truck into the Dodge dealer, it is pulling teeth to get them to treat me like a customer. The Toyota dealer has always been completely customer friendly and they ship me parts (air/oil filters, etc) free and get them to me fast. The Dodge dealer laughs when I ask them to do that.

 

[Bombsight]

Simplified ....

Short of needing a smaller truck because of trail widths, as in the Tacoma scenario, it seems as though using a more robust suspension found on GMC, Ford & Dodge would make more sense than taking a chance on air bags on a Tundra.
Why?

Its hard for me to belive that, when buying a full size rig, the big 3 American made trucks build integrity is so bad that most would prefer air bags over springs.

 

[Stalking Light]

I also like my Tacoma for the narrow width, which is also why I got an Eagle instead of a Fleet. I did upgrade the suspension on my Taco with an OME lift with heavy springs.

 

[billharr]

The 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton vs 1 ton has been well discussed on several threads. My 2005 Tundra is still working great and If I would have bought the 4 door and not the access cab I would not even be thinking about another truck. The 1/2 ton GMC, Ford and Dodge are not any heaver build than the current Tundra's. There are probably more of those 1/2 tons with air bags than there are Tundra's. The ride on the 1/2 tons alone is enough for many to go with it for the camper over a 3/4 ton. That said my next truck for the price difference may well be a 3/4 ton. Just wish Toyota would sell one, I have had too many problems with american made cars over the last 15 years. I know they all look better on paper now just not sure how they will run on 10 years.

Simplified ....

Short of needing a smaller truck because of trail widths, as in the Tacoma scenario, it seems as though using a more robust suspension found on GMC, Ford & Dodge would make more sense than taking a chance on air bags on a Tundra.
Why?

Its hard for me to belive that, when buying a full size rig, the big 3 American made trucks build integrity is so bad that most would prefer air bags over springs.

 

[Bombsight]

That said my next truck for the price difference may well be a 3/4 ton. Just wish Toyota would sell one, I have had too many problems with american made cars over the last 15 years. I know they all look better on paper now just not sure how they will run on 10 years.

THIS is exactly why I started this post.
Unless the "Big 3" is still less than desirable, why would anyone buy a Tundra ...and put what I think is a less than desirable suspension modification, on an awesome yet payload capacity lacking rig?
Are we not defeating the dependability of a Toyota itself by doing so?

 

[JHanson]

"Are we not defeating the dependability of a Toyota itself by doing so?"

Why? Adding air bags affects the reliability of the truck not at all. You haven't compromised a single factory component. Furthermore, the air bags give you the capability of fine-tuning the stance of the truck to suit varying loads.

I know several people who have mounted FWCs on full-size American trucks, both half- and 3/4 ton, and still had to modify the suspension to maintain a level ride and safe handling.

Yes, there is no doubt that a 3/4- or 1-ton truck is ahead of the game in terms of load-carrying capability compared to a Tacoma (or Colorado), but there are so many more aspects to choosing a truck—including, yes, reliability—that for me at least it's far from the highest consideration. I have a FWC on a Tacoma, but I also own an F350, so I don't think I'm prejudiced.

Although, the Ford is off the road at the moment, needing repairs . . .

 

[Bombsight]

"Are we not defeating the dependability of a Toyota itself by doing so?"

Why? Adding air bags affects the reliability of the truck not at all. You haven't compromised a single factory component. Furthermore, the air bags give you the capability of fine-tuning the stance of the truck to suit varying loads.

I know several people who have mounted FWCs on full-size American trucks, both half- and 3/4 ton, and still had to modify the suspension to maintain a level ride and safe handling.

Yes, there is no doubt that a 3/4- or 1-ton truck is ahead of the game in terms of load-carrying capability compared to a Tacoma (or Colorado), but there are so many more aspects to choosing a truck—including, yes, reliability—that for me at least it's far from the highest consideration. I have a FWC on a Tacoma, but I also own an F350, so I don't think I'm prejudiced.

Although, the Ford is off the road at the moment, needing repairs . . .

Ok .... that some of the feedback I was looking for. Thank you.
Anyone else?

 

[coguzzi]

i had a hawk on a 02 tundra access cab for years with airbags and other upgraded suspension bits, never was "bad" except for MPG. but we decided we wanted more cab room for the dog/dogs than the AC provided. i looked at the newer tundras pretty hard and believe it is the best 1/2 ton full size option out there with the most built up components. then i got all into the power wagon thing. turns out the power wagon is realistically only a 1/2 ton truck capacity wise, but the bug had bit for RAM. i ended up with a crew cab RAM 2500 3/4 ton and could not be happier. truck hauls camper with zero mods, the 2500 coil sprung suspension rides really nice (not typical in a 3/4 ton truck) and gets tons better milage with a 6.4 gasser than the toyota 4.7 which worked pretty hard.

i kept the tundra since its a great truck, sold my 99 tacoma daily driver and the tundra is my daily now. HAD toyota stepped up to the plate and made the tundra a true 3/4 ton like it should, id probably have a Tundra, ive always been a toyota truck guy. But im loving the RAM 2500 quite a bit

 

[Cooter]

One thing to consider is that the new Tacomas are no longer a small truck. They are too big for at least the jeep trails around here. I recently bought a 2015 F150 but shopped all the truck brands. The new Tacomas are near the same size and weight as my crewcab F150 4WD. I looked it up after seeing them and the F150 super crew F150 4wd has a 79.9 body width, 67.6 track width, 4696 weight compared to a new Tacoma double cab 4WD with a body width 75.2 width, 63.2 track width and 4230 weight. So the Tacoma is 4 inches narrower and 476 lbs lighter than an F150 similarly equipped. I have owned three toyota trucks 1984 Hilux 2003 Tacoma and 2004 Tacoma. All great trucks and my daughter still drives the 2003 Tacoma but they have grown in size in recent years to the size of a half ton almost. Tacoma was my second choice when buying the F150 but really all the new truck are outstanding with each having its own pros and cons.

 

[idahoron]

my next truck for the price difference may well be a 3/4 ton. Just wish Toyota would sell one, I have had too many problems with american made cars over the last 15 years. I know they all look better on paper now just not sure how they will run on 10 years.

I am with Bill on this one. I owned Ford, and Chevy autos up until 1990. I had so many problems with domestic cars and trucks that in 1990 I bought a 1988 toyota xtra cab. I have owned this truck for 25 years. It is still my daily driver and the reason I bought all of my six toyotas I now own now.

When I decided to get a new truck I knew I was not going to trade in my old reliable with 200,000 miles. I got a 2005 Tundra and loved it from the time I got in it. I started out with a camper shell that served me well for 8 years. When I got my Base Hawk in 2013 the only thing that has disappointed me is my gas mileage. When I went from the shell ,and all my gear to the camper, I only added 600 pounds to my package. but my mileage went from 19 to 14.

The main reason I got the camper was to make my hunting, fishing, and camping much more enjoyable. I had a truck that FWC said was a good match for the Hawk. I talked to the service manager at the local Toyota dealer. I gave him the specs and he knew about my Firestone Ride Rites. He told me that it was a good fit.
Being the kind of person that only has to get hit over the head a dozen times before I learn something I knew that I was not going to buy a bigger truck. I knew I had a good truck, and one that I trusted. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here are the pictures. Which would most people prefer?

 

[Cooter]

I think that if people like brand A over other brands they forgive and forget the problems they have had. I have owned 3 Toyota trucks and one Toyota car while they are excellent vehicles they all broke down at times and had to have parts replaced. Several recalls were involved including Toyota offering to buy back the 2003 Tacoma because of possible frame damage from rust through (mine did not have any because we don't use much salt in Arkansas). We will probably buy another Toyota in the future for my wife but I have enough experience with them to know that they are not bullet proof vehicles. My experience though is that all cars and trucks have improved a lot over the years and the best quality vehicle from 1970s would probably be unacceptable quality today. I only have 17000 on my F150 so no problems at this point does not mean much. I do think however that a buyer in todays truck market expects 150K before any problems at least. This is a far cry from even the 1980s when 100K on a car was impressive.

 

[snuffy]

so let me see, you never saw a 20+ year old Toyota on a flatbed? do you know why the ford was on flatbed? how many miles?

 

[oregonfj]

Somebody tell me why some, if not most of y'all, are choosing to put bags on a sub-standard suspension (i.e. Toyota 1/2 tons) instead of choosing a platform degined for a FWC load from the get-go?

I've been driving a sub-compact Toyota for the last 22 years (a '93 model Toyata Truck and a '93 Tacoma).
They were and have been absolutely trouble free (besides a recall on the head gasket on the '93) rigs.
Couldnt be happier! ..... but ....

I just cant imagine myself putting air bags on a Toyota when , in my opinion, a 3/4 or one ton is the most surefire way of eliminating problems with suspension.

Do you guys think that highly of Toyotas? What is a Toyota worth when an "aftermarket suspension" can leave you broke down?

Please dont get me wrong. I'm committed to Toyota. I just dont like the idea of air bags. The American big three cant be all that bad when it comes to dependabilty .... so this issue confuses me.

I'll try to answer from my standpoint....
I have a 2015 Tundra because most of my driving (95% of the time or more) I don't have my camper on. I installed air bags and a Toyota TRD rear sway bar for when the camper is on. I am impressed with how well the setup handles the camper. I actually prefer the ride of the truck with the air bags and sway bar even when empty.
In regards to reliability, I've owned several Dodge Diesels (still have the 2005). I bought the Tundra because of my experiences with the American trucks (maintenance costs). Wish is wasn't so... But that has been my experience.
As for air bags, not sure why you "don't like the idea". They don't replace the existing suspension. If they completely failed, you wouldn't "break down", you would just be back to stock suspension.
Finally, if I kept the camper on permanently I would go a different route. I would go with a 3/4 or more likely a 1 ton American rig. They are definitely set up to handle heavy loads better than a 1/2 ton. Either way, I would likely install air bags.

Steve

 

[MuleHawk]

I have a Hawk on a '13 Tundra. I chose a Tundra over a 3/4 ton American truck because of my experience with American trucks over the years. We have had Ford's, Dodge's and GM on the farm and while they have worked well for cheap they are prone to breaking when you absolutely need them the most. If Toyota made a 3/4 or 1 ton we would have gone away from the big 3 years ago.

I also daily drive my Tundra and if you sit behind the wheel of one for 5 seconds you can tell how much better the build quality and comfort is. Don't get me started on rattles in big 3 trucks and how poor they feel on the road, horrible input from the steering.

I find the 5.7 Tundra engine to handle the extra weight just fine even on mountain roads, I don't feel the engine strains at all.

I have installed airbags and there is nothing to worry about. I just drove half way across the country in snowy weather and mountain roads and never once worried about my suspension.

Get the truck you like driving and work around its deficiencies. I couldn't imagine driving a truck I hate just because it has a higher payload.

 

[Cooter]

What is interesting is that I can find a cult like loyalty to any of the major truck brands on these sites very easily. This leads me to believe they are all pretty good trucks. Comparing new trucks to what we drove back in the day really isn't valid because trucks in general are better today.

 

[Durango1]

"This leads me to believe they are all pretty good trucks. Comparing new trucks to what we drove back in the day really isn't valid because trucks in general are better today."

X2.

We are pretty darn happy with our 2012 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with the new aluminum flat bed and a 2015 FB hawk. But IF I ever up "upgrade" (may not as the 2012 only has 18,000 miles on the clock!) it will be to an extended cab (not crew cab) diesel 1 ton chassis cab with a 8' custom aluminum flat bed. Why?

1) I've found you can't have too much weight capacity. More is better. (I am over GVW with the Hawk on my 2500 and my guess is most who put their units on the scale would be very surprised.) So I would absolutely go with a one ton next time.

2) I'd go with an extended cab simply because Sioux and I seldom travel with passengers. So I'd take the (more or less) 18" saved with a smaller cab and go with a longer bed/bigger camper. But it would be the same wheelbase as our Crew Cab.

3) A "chassis cab" is specifically designed to install flatbeds with nice flat rails behind the cab. Plus they also include a much bigger fuel tank as standard. Something like 60 gallons if i remember correctly!

4) Even though I am "content" with my gasser a diesel does better both over the road and in low range. And the higher price tag? Heck... it is only money!

5) On the longer aluminum flat bed I'd hang four 24" long aluminum boxes (nice low center of gravity) and include a "shovel box". This is a long 6" high aluminum box running the length of the bed between the rails of the frame accessed from the rear. An unbelievable amount of storage (camp chairs, tables, canopies, tool boxes, camp stoves... basically anything less than 6" in height.) and once again a low center of gravity.

6) Camper choice? I'd PROBABLY go with a FWC Grandby Flat Bed. I've been super happy with FWC. (This is my second Hawk in four years.) However, I would definitely "look around". I'm not married to FWC and don't want the boys over in Woodland, CA to get "complacent"!

Thanks for indulging me with my pipe dreams. A guy can always think ahead... right? But honestly Sioux and I are really looking forward to using our new Hawk Flatbed camper! And that is what it is all about!

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