Vic's new 2012 Puma build

[Vic Harder]

OK, more Reflectix work on the ceiling. Once the passenger side was done and the fabric reattached (used more double sided tape and a few staples) I removed the few staples I had put on the driver's side and carefull pulled the fabric off of the double sided tape. I detached the middle too, so it would be exposed and easier to work with.

I then did lots of careful measuring to locate the wires that had to come through later. In hindsight, I could have made even more measurements. With the Reflectix, I lost the ability to "feel" the wires and existing screw holes in the roof. Finding them once the Reflectix and the fabric were back up required using the measurements to get within a 1/4" of the spot, and then using a thin needle to poke upwards until I found the holes.

To make holes for the wires I used two different methods. Feel the wire and use the measurements, then cut the Reflectix with a knife, or use a hot soldering iron to melt a hole. In both cases, I then sealed the hole again with aluminum tape. I do NOT want air/water vapor leaking through my roof! I started in the middle of the camper and worked out to the edges to avoid puckers. I pulled HARD on the Reflectix before pressing it into the tape and adding a staple for good measure.

I spent extra time to seal up the fan area.

Here is the Reflectix with the wires found and taped up again:

Before reattaching the fabric, I added more double sided tape on the Reflectix along the driver's side edge. I started attaching the fabric in the middle of the driver's side edge... again, pulling hard to avoid sags/puckers and again pressed the fabric into the tape and added a staple.

As I went along, I made holes in the fabric for the wires with the soldering iron. The fabric has enough plastic fibers in it to melt VERY easily, and also to self-seal the edges so they don't fray. This is much stronger than slicing a hole in the fabric, which can then easily tear further along the cut.

(Sorry, no pic of that!)

I did snap a few shots of the parts where the new fabric meets the old. This is the driver's side rear corner. The "new" piece of wood that goes east/west hides the edge of the new fabric along the hinge, and covers where it meets the old fabric in the corner. Double sided tape under the wood strip (cut from a sheet of 1/2" maple plywood as shown in a previous post) in the corner area keeps it from pulling loose.

Similar pic of the passenger rear corner. I still need to trim that little bit of foil/fabric that can be seen peeking through at the very edge. That edge is also yet to get a wooden strip of its own... tomorrow?

 

[Happyjax]

Outstanding work Vic!

 

[jimjxsn]

Well done Vic! I hope you are happy with it, that is a bunch of work.

 

[BlueSky]

Nice work. With the original fabric up there, you have the space between the metal roof and the fabric able to breathe. With refletix it looks like you are sealing it off. Might be fine, but I wonder about condensation. Then maybe you left some areas open so it can breathe, and I missed it in this post. Maybe I should just shut up.

 

[Boonie]

With my simple understanding of home insulation, the vapor barrier always goes on the warm side, so that condensation does not penetrate into the insulation and potentially freeze. Or in Vic's case prevent the moisture from reaching the insulation space and condense against the outer roof skin and trapping water above the ceiling cloth.

 

[Vic Harder]

Boonie has the gist of what I was after, a vapor barrier on the warm (and thus wetter) side, just like in a tightly sealed house. Maybe you missed something BlueSky, but the old fabric was removed, except for the tiny 2" x 4" corner sections.

 

[BlueSky]

Yes, vapor barrier on warm side is good. I guess the reason I am thinking about this is because I m doing a remodel on my house and I've learned more about vapor barriers and cavities than anyone should know.. A vapor barrier goes just behind the drywall and over the insulation. However, a "Water Resistant Barrier" or WRB (like Tyvek) goes on the exterior sheathing and behind the siding. The WRB can breathe, but also sheds moisture. The sheathing and cavity is allowed to breathe through the WRB. I suppose if there is no way for warm moist air to get into the camper roof cavity then it is a non issue.

 

[Vic Harder]

Yes, vapor barrier on warm side is good. I guess the reason I am thinking about this is because I m doing a remodel on my house and I've learned more about vapor barriers and cavities than anyone should know.. A vapor barrier goes just behind the drywall and over the insulation. However, a "Water Resistant Barrier" or WRB (like Tyvek) goes on the exterior sheathing and behind the siding. The WRB can breathe, but also sheds moisture. The sheathing and cavity is allowed to breathe through the WRB. I suppose if there is no way for warm moist air to get into the camper roof cavity then it is a non issue.

Thanks for that insight. I wondered about Tyvek. I was thinking it was a vapor barrier and it made no sense to me to put a VB on the outside of the insulation. Seems like Tyvek is more like Goretex, a breathable and waterproof material.

My seal isn't perfect, especially near the hinges at either end. But other than that, there is no way for moisture from inside the camper to get into the insulation. Condensation will still happen where there is thermal bridging, but that is unavoidable with a metal framed camper, I think.

 

[Vic Harder]

Yes, vapor barrier on warm side is good. I guess the reason I am thinking about this is because I m doing a remodel on my house and I've learned more about vapor barriers and cavities than anyone should know.. A vapor barrier goes just behind the drywall and over the insulation. However, a "Water Resistant Barrier" or WRB (like Tyvek) goes on the exterior sheathing and behind the siding. The WRB can breathe, but also sheds moisture. The sheathing and cavity is allowed to breathe through the WRB. I suppose if there is no way for warm moist air to get into the camper roof cavity then it is a non issue.

Thanks for that insight. I wondered about Tyvek. I was thinking it was a vapor barrier and it made no sense to me to put a VB on the outside of the insulation. Seems like Tyvek is more like Goretex, a breathable and waterproof material.

My seal isn't perfect, especially near the hinges at either end. But other than that, there is no way for moisture from inside the camper to get into the insulation. Condensation will still happen where there is thermal bridging, but that is unavoidable with a metal framed camper, I think.

 

[Vic Harder]

A bit more progress. With the bed area now being 5' deep permanently, the push bar at the front of the camper was less than useful for raising the top. I needed a longer bar. The stock bar was also too flimsy to lift the roof with a 330W solar panel up there, even with the 80# shock lifter thingys. I had a piece of 3/4" piano hinge and a piece of aluminum channel lying around that was just the right length, so I figured this just needed to be done today.

Hinge cut and shaped to avoid sharp edges

I used 3/8" long #8 metal screws, but even those were a touch too long and would scratch the topmost life panel unless I trimmed them a bit with my grinder.

Hinge in place (sharp eyed folks might notice this is a longer piece..... previous piece got inserted and taken out enough times that I stripped the screw holes. New one just went in the one time. There is a piece of 1/2" plywood behind the hinge so I don't screw or drill into the lift panel.

This is the C-channel I used... 3/4" x 1 1/2"

I trimmed the end of the channel so it would fit nicely onto the 3/4" hinge. 3 holes drilled into the aluminum, and then "threaded" by driving in a sacrificial screw. Once the actual screws were in place, I trimmed off the excess length in the back so make that surface nice and flush... sorry, no picture.

Bar in place. Held up by the same mechanism that the factory used. It is much higher than the original bar, and so it is less likely that we will knock our heads on it. The wife is quite enthused about the change.

 

[jimjxsn]

Nice work Vic. That would be a nice improvement even with the standard length bed.

 

[Vic Harder]

Nice work Vic. That would be a nice improvement even with the standard length bed.

I shortened that push bar today. I found that with the top down, getting at the fridge was hard with the bar that long. It is now long enough to push on to lift the top and when down, it clears the fridge door. Much nicer for raiding the fridge on short rest stops!

 

[Vic Harder]

A bit more progress last week. Got the roof prepped for the canoe we are having built for us. First step was to remove the solar panel and traction mats from where they were. Solar panel was at the front of the roof, and went all the way across too. 78" long on a 78" wide Puma. Sorry, no pics of that.

I bought some more T-slot tracks from Lee Valley, and some 1" aluminum bars from Home Depot. Here is a bad shot of the roof during this construction phase:

This T-slot has a maximum length of 4', so when I built this camper out (the prototype build) last fall I had one one each side of the front of the camper for the solar panel, and two at the rear for the traction mats. These were held on to the roof by drilling holes in the T-slots to line up with the existing holes in the roof, and then I put white butyl tape under the T-slots and screwed them in with 3/4" #8 machine screws. I inspected these before installing more, and boy... that butyl tape is sticky. I think that the solar panel would have stayed put even if the screws had fallen out!

I added more T-slot bars, basically making 2 rails on each side of the camper. The new rails were attached with 3m 5200 under them instead of butyl tape. It makes for a bit cleaner look, and is likely even stronger than the butyl tape was. Again using all of the existing screw holes. I did NOT put a rail in the middle of the roof, since the roof is bowed by design, and I wanted that to stay to help with rain run off. I also did not go closer to the front and rear than 6", because there is a lot of slope to the roof in that last 6".

Notice the dirty roof! 4 months of being in the garage while I built the inside out created a lot of dust! I cleaned under the rails with brake cleaner before attaching the rails.

Driver's side with the traction mats mounted:

This side is for the canoe!

Driver's side with the solar panel mounted. I really wanted to mount this heavy stuff on the passenger side, as nearly all the heavy bits in this build are on the driver's side. But the roof vent location made that impossible. Definitely need to clean that solar panel before it will produce good power!

Question was asked about wiring up the solar panels. Mine did not come pre-wired. The red/black wires in this picture come up right at the end of the bed area, and head down towards the floor. The yellow wire is the factory installed ceiling power for both the lights and fan. Both my Hawk and this Puma used the same wiring scheme for the ceiling wiring. I ran the red/black from my DC fuse panel to this point, then behind that 1/8" paneling strip towards the front of the camper. It then tucks around the corner and comes up by the lifter panels.

It is taped to the back of the panels, and then I made two holes in the headliner (hot soldering iron melts it nicely) and drilled up through the roof. The wires terminate in a solar cable entry box. The box is sealed with 3m 4200 and screws (3 of the 4 screws go into the roof framing. One doesn't because the roof was not pre-wired. Plenty strong and weather tight. I believe factory pre-wired roofs have some additional framing for the roof penetration area, at least my Hawk did.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

“Got the roof prepped for the canoe we are having built for us“
I think I’ve missed some boat news, could you share the details?

 

[Vic Harder]

“Got the roof prepped for the canoe we are having built for us“
I think I’ve missed some boat news, could you share the details?

Sure. We briefly had a great cedar strip canoe that a friend of mine built in the late 1970's. Outrageous boat. 16' long, 50 pounds, 30" wide, no tumblehome or rocker, nor keel. Completely round hull shape, so unbelievably tippy. But super fast with great secondary stability. Two strong guys could practically turn it into a hydrofoil, it shot out of the water so hard. But, the tippy bit had us selling it 2 years after we inherited it a few summers ago. Just not practical, as you could count on ending up in the water at least once every time you went out.

So, I did a bunch of R&D, and ended up looking hard at Souris River and Swift canoes. I really liked the idea of a 34# carbon/kevlar canoe, especially when thinking about getting it on top of the camper. Both of those firms are out east, and so I hesitated long enough to discover Hellman Canoes in Nelson BC. Bob Hellman used to work with Souris River, and has tweaked their designs to make his own. We are getting him to make a 16' Quetico for us in clear Kevlar. 39 pounds when done, and for considerably less $$ than either of the eastern firms.

Like most things these days, his company has been closed due to covid-19, but we are told we'll have our canoe in June.

 

[Taku]

oh, that will be nice. After 29 years our old Mad River Explorer died of cracks so we bit the bullet and bought a kevlar canoe. 43# outfitted weight and it paddles very lightly. Don't want to be banging rocks like we could, but getting it on top of the camper is way easier. As soon as I retire, we are heading to rivers in Canada with it.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

Vic, that’s a sweet boat! Pix Please when you take delivery!

I still have one of my Lincoln canoes, plus the lapstrake I built. The Lincoln is 17+ and 65 pounds. I should think about something lighter.

 

[Vic Harder]

oh, that will be nice. After 29 years our old Mad River Explorer died of cracks so we bit the bullet and bought a kevlar canoe. 43# outfitted weight and it paddles very lightly. Don't want to be banging rocks like we could, but getting it on top of the camper is way easier. As soon as I retire, we are heading to rivers in Canada with it.

yeah, the "banging rocks" bit was one of the factors for NOT getting a Swift Carbon canoe at 34#. Carbon is nice for race boats, not so much for recreational paddling where you very likely will be hitting something sooner or later.

The Souris River canoes and by association, my Hellman canoe, are used by a lot of outfitters up here, and get serious abuse. Mind you, those are their heavier layups. We have an east coast trip planned that will take us through Northern Ontario (Quetico, Algonquin, etc) and are looking forward to some nice fall colours from the water.

 

[Fishyhead]

I bought some more T-slot tracks from Lee Valley

Thanks for the T-Slot link. I have Yakima's stuff for my cars but after pricing what it would cost to install a pair of their tracks and enough towers and bars to do what I want, it cost way too much. I like your system of multiple T-Slot tracks since it should allow for easy upgrades in the future.

 

[Vic Harder]

earlier this week we test fit the camper onto the truck. If you may recall, I had some doubts about my chosen location for the Propex 2800. I had measured multiple times, but.... I have made mistakes before! So, we backed the truck up to the camper and it looked like it would fit!

Sure enough, it fit and the camper has been on the truck for a few days now. I was pleased to see the solar panel working really well, and not so pleased once it started to rain. The roof is tight, no problems there. But ALL the windows leak... or rather, the seams leak:

They drip pretty steady in a 1" per day of rainfall type of steady rain, which is hardly a downpour. I'm thinking I need some seam sealer?