Wave versus Furnace

[tk254254]

Since I am gutting my keystone, I am thinking about ripping out the furnace and putting in a wave catalytic heater. I have a few questions:

-How long (ballpark) will a standard deep cycle batter operate a 1986 furnace?
-It looks like the cheapest you can find these wave heaters is around $300?
-Seems like the wave would use considerably less gas due to no exhaust?

Thanks!

 

[MarkBC]

-Seems like the wave would use considerably less gas due to no exhaust?

Yes, a catalytic heater must be more energy-efficient than the furnace for that reason...but I've never compared how fast the propane tank empties with the two types of heater.

BTW: Even though all the heat produced goes into the camper it's not effectively 100% efficient. The fact that you have to vent the camper to provide oxygen for the catalytic heater's combustion means that you're bringing in cold air and so some of the heater's output is lost to heating that incoming air (an equivalent way to look at is is that you're venting out -- losing -- heated air at the same rate you're bringing in cold air). And the colder it is outside, the effectively less efficient the catalytic heater is because you have to bring in just as much air, but since it's colder, more of the heater's output is lost to heating the incoming air to your comfy temperature (that is, the greater the difference is between the incoming-air temperature and the vented-out-air temperature).

 

[Mark W. Ingalls]

A CO detector is highly recommended...

 

[MarkBC]

A CO detector is highly recommended...

Yes! I had my CO detector "go off" -- sound its alarm -- once when using my Wave 6 on high without sufficient ventilation.

 

[tk254254]

Gotcha... It sounds like the best option is to leave the existing furnace in then you can just use the wave on nights that aren't as cold.

 

[MarkBC]

Gotcha... It sounds like the best option is to leave the existing furnace in then you can just use the wave on nights that aren't as cold.

I think it's good to have both 'cause the forced-air furnace heats up the camper faster -- 'cause it blows the air around...handy first thing in the morning.

Some people are wary about leaving a catalytic heater on overnight while sleeping, but I've done it many times and haven't died. You'll have to decide for yourself on that.
Personally, I find the furnace-fan noise (in my 2005 Hawk) very obnoxious to sleep by, AND it really draws on the battery (though I don't have specs/figures to give you about that). I've read that newer models use a different furnace with a quieter and lower-power fan.

Of course, when I get my camper-insulation perfected I'll probably be able to keep it warm in there just by body heat alone...

 

[Barko1]

Since I am gutting my keystone, I am thinking about ripping out the furnace and putting in a wave catalytic heater. I have a few questions:

-How long (ballpark) will a standard deep cycle batter operate a 1986 furnace?
-It looks like the cheapest you can find these wave heaters is around $300?
-Seems like the wave would use considerably less gas due to no exhaust?

Thanks!


A Wave 3 can be had for around $200, a bit less if patient (Amazon $192). They certainly seem very efficient, it is amazing how much super hot air blows out from the regular furnace. I also noticed that the area around the standard furnace wasn't really insulated and was a source of infiltration when just sitting there. I ditched mine, I always worried about the 12v drain and a couple cold nights would kill a battery. I have some extra space since ripping it out although I carry the Wave in the same space only with a shelf above it. Use the same connection but with a 5' bbq hose so I can move it, usually on the floor by the door, sometimes up on the cabinet out of the way. I don't miss the noisy blower and the varying temps. For me the Wave just requires a decision about when to turn it on as it takes a minute. Really cold, turn it on before bed, cold but not that cold means I turn it on in the middle of the night. Sometimes just in the morning. Warms things up quick enough for me. I left the outside cover in place and added my favorite substance, Reflextic

 

[Overland Hadley]

I have chosen the Wave 3 for my camper.

 

[Lighthawk]

We've got the stock 12k BTU blower furnace and have added the Wave 3, which we love for it's quietness and efficiency. The furnace can be a fast way to blow lot's of hot air, which can help dry things out and heat the camper quick. The Wave is silent and uses no battery, so it's the unit we run over night (with the turnbuckle access port cracked 1/2 inch and the fan lid opened a crack too).

I could remove the furnace, but I'm not sure I want to lose the quick (and loud) heat blast capability. I mounted my Wave directly below the furnace in my 08 Hawk, so I can have the best of both worlds.

Sorry, I have no data as to the efficiency of the Wave vs. the furnace. Frankly, I don't care that much. The decision for us was based on battery consumption (excessive!) and noise (did I say LOUD?)

 

[tk254254]

Thanks everyone! I will keep the furnace and install a wave separately.

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

For us the furnace is the way to go .In the mornings all Sharon has to do is reach over and flip the thermostat and we are good to go.As I have stated we don't do super cold camping,wooses I guess.Also we don't sleep with the heater on.Ours is very quiet and I like the forced air part as it heats the camper up nicely.Plus to me it's just something else to store,IMO.I could see that if the fan was very loud a Wave would be good,but I just like the flip a switch and heat.

Frank

 

[leadsled9]

I prefer the furnace. It heats quickly and can be run by a thermostadt so I can program the heat to come on 1/2 hour before I get up. I don't sleep with anything on....just a couple of vents open.

 

[Barko1]

I don't sleep with anything on....



Is that a warning

 

[leadsled9]

Is that a warning


Man....you've got to be so careful on this forum.

I meant I don't sleep with any propane appliances on.

 

[MarkBC]

I don't sleep with anything on

Is that a warning
Yeah, I was going to say "Too much information"...but that's so "90s".

 

[tk254254]

Thanks guys, I will be wearing boxers but hopefully the wife will have nothing on. Let me know if this changes your advice.

 

[craig333]

Okay, this weekend with a low of 18 degrees running the wave 3 on low kept my camper just about at 32 and I experienced significant condensation. If I wasn't using my winter bag I'd have been cold. Running it on high probably would have kept the temps up (maybe too much?) but not done anything about the condensation.

Second night I used the furnace. Warmer and no condensation, but there was the noise.

What I want to try is using both. Let the wave do most of the work and let the furnace come one when it gets behind. That might get the best of both worlds. Keep the condensation down, electricity usage down and noise down. Can't do it right now because the thermostat is mounted directly above the wave and isn't happy about it. Soon as I move it I'll try that.

 

[MarkBC]

Okay, this weekend with a low of 18 degrees running the wave 3 on low kept my camper just about at 32 and I experienced significant condensation. If I wasn't using my winter bag I'd have been cold. Running it on high probably would have kept the temps up (maybe too much?) but not done anything about the condensation.

Second night I used the furnace. Warmer and no condensation, but there was the noise.

Craig, that's a good point about the condensation -- another difference between the Wave and the exhaust-vented furnace.
But the Wave's combustion isn't the only source of water vapor that condenses -- the living creature(s) in the camper produce water vapor, too. Maybe you had no condensation the second night not because you used the furnace but simply because it was warmer and so the temperature was above the dew point. So...maybe if you used the Wave on High it would have been warm enough to keep the temperature above the dew point, even though on High would add to the water vapor.

I think the "water-from-people vs water-from-catalytic-heater" question has been covered here before, but I'm not sure...
It's one of those questions that can be calculated and/or looked up...maybe I will.

 

[craig333]

Possible, but I think its more likely the addition of basically 0 humidity air from the furnace balances out any increase from human causes. Sounds like we need a "study"

 

[Barko1]

Okay, this weekend with a low of 18 degrees running the wave 3 on low kept my camper just about at 32



I'm really surprised it got that cool inside even on low. I have a big ole Grandby and in those conditions I would think I'd be at least in the 40's inside. I have done quite a bit of insulating including having the floor of the camper sitting on 2" of blue insulating foam board and reflectix just about everywhere I could get it (all around the LP box, any uninsulated wood behind the cabinets, even the vent dome, plus over the windows/door window).