Weight

[eyemgh]

We have a 2008 Silverado 1500, non-lifted with Helwig helpers and Bilsteins. It carries a Raven shell. The GVWR is 7000. GAWR Front and Rear are 3950. With a full tank of gas an extra 5 gallon can, a few things we never pull and both of us, we’re at 3400 front and 3600 rear, for 7000 total…unloaded.

Depending on where we go, we bring various things. In the winter we carry front and rear chains. If we’re going to Hart, The Steens or Death Valley, we bring an extra spare. We occasionally carry 2 E-Bikes. Of course we bring food, water, safety gear, etc.

Because it’s a shell and we’re the second owners, I just assumed we’d be at or below spec when loaded. We’ve used it that way for over a year. It drives fine both on road and even semi-technical off road. We load the bulk of our gear in the back seat of the crew cab, so the load is balanced.

I know every Tacoma with a FWC is over weight, probably by a lot. I’m just wondering how concerned we should be and if there’s anything more we can/should do to mitigate the situation.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[bimmeryota]

The numbers are always going to be the numbers. How stringent you are on adhering to them is an individual choice consisting of many things that have been discussed a lot.
But I think the first thing no matter where you stand on the numbers issue is how it drives for you in the conditions you drive in. Sounds like you have some weight carrying improvements, did you try without before adding them? Is there still something lacking with driving at your fully loaded weight? Tires make a huge difference in handling and weight capacity if you haven’t done that already. Sounds like you also have it balanced pretty well and that distribution will help a lot with handling, I’ve struggled with that having to use the cab for passengers instead of gear.

I say try it out and drive conservatively and pay close attention to everything and make some decisions from there.

Otherwise the easy answer is to just throw money at the problem and get an HD truck with enough listed payload for what you want to do and call it a day.

 

[Jon R]

I have a 2004 Yukon XL with the 5.3 engine, which has all the same driveline, suspension, and brakes as your truck if you have the 5.3, except yours has the cylinder shutoff “feature,” I believe.

Based on my experience carrying loads and pulling light trailers with it I think your drive train and front suspension will be just fine, your rear suspension will probably be sagged more than you might like but ok (air bags and a larger sway bar would improve it), but your brakes will be marginal. They’ll stop the truck fine, but you’ll periodically overheat them with panic stops from highway speed and long descents, and have rotor issues where you’ll want to replace the brakes more often.

I’m still on my original brakes at 140,000 miles (I bought it new), but a change in my commute has me descending a steep 500 foot hill twice a day as of about 2 years ago and they now need to be replaced.

 

[Jack]

The scales in the spot-check truck weigh stations in Oregon are always active. If the station is not in use, just pull onto the scale and your total weight will be displayed.

 

[eyemgh]

It has the Z85 handling/trailering suspension with the off road package. The Helwigs were on when we got it. We put E rated Wildpeaks on. It drives nicely and isn't squatty at all. The only reason I even thought to weigh it was because I was thinking about getting rid of the bed and adding a flatbed deck for more storage.

 

[eyemgh]

The scales in the spot-check truck weigh stations in Oregon are always active. If the station is not in use, just pull onto the scale and your total weight will be displayed.

That's how I came up with the weights I posted.

 

[Espresso]

I'm conservative when it comes to weight. The one thing you can't test is how the truck will handle in an emergency when you may be braking very hard while aggressively turning to avoid an obstacle. This is when handling needs to be predictable and when airbags or extra leafs may not help the situation. My next truck will be a 3/4 ton minimum. Maybe more if I want to tow a heavy trailer. Until then I'll stay well within the spec's of my 1/2 ton.

 

[Jon R]

I'm conservative when it comes to weight. The one thing you can't test is how the truck will handle in an emergency when you may be braking very hard while aggressively turning to avoid an obstacle. This is when handling needs to be predictable and when airbags or extra leafs may not help the situation. My next truck will be a 3/4 ton minimum. Maybe more if I want to tow a heavy trailer. Until then I'll stay well within the spec's of my 1/2 ton.

I’m conservative too. My Grandby is on a gmc 3500hd. A few weeks ago someone pulled out on the highway in front of a truck towing a trailer about 8 cars ahead of us at 65 mph causing a major accident. We had to slam on the brakes to a full stop and yet again we were really glad we had bought an hd truck. It hardly knows that 1800 lbs of loaded camper is there.

 

[eyemgh]

My next truck will be a 3/4 ton minimum.

That's what started this whole thing, configuring my "next" rig. When I realized a Scout Kenai on a Sherptek bed plus a new reasonably configured one ton would be well over $100K, I started looking at making mine "good enough." That was the first time I weighed it. That said, even fully loaded with two spares, floor jack, water and 50 pounds of chains, it handles surprisingly well. I'll be more selective from this point forward on what I bring.

 

[DavidGraves]

Howdy

Now you are really thinking.....

Budgeting your dynamic weight items ....stuff you bring along not attached to the truck....can make a big difference.

Always stow the heavier items forward in the camper nearer to the trucks center but also secure them or at least against a bulkhead in case of a sudden stop.

On our longer trips of 4-5 weeks we plan to jettison some items along the way and look for thrift shop bargains that fill the bill.

This makes for a nationwide treasure hunt if you will.....

DG

 

[EYEMLOST]

On my set up; I weighed the rig right after mounting the FWC Granby.

The results;
Steer axle: 2,560lbs (factory GAWR: 2,800lbs)

Drive axle: 3,360lbs (swapped in Sterling 10.25/GAWR: 8,250lbs)


My questions;
1) How common is it for TC's front axle to lose weight as mine has?
2) How concerned should a TC be with said weight loss of said front axle?
3) IYO; what percentage of TC go about their business with a lighter front axle weight(shift)?

 

[eyemgh]

On my set up; I weighed the rig right after mounting the FWC Granby.

The results;
Steer axle: 2,560lbs (factory GAWR: 2,800lbs)

Drive axle: 3,360lbs (swapped in Sterling 10.25/GAWR: 8,250lbs)


My questions;
1) How common is it for TC's front axle to lose weight as mine has?
2) How concerned should a TC be with said weight loss of said front axle?
3) IYO; what percentage of TC go about their business with a lighter front axle weight(shift)?

What makes you say it lost weight? The GAWR F and R aren't what they do weight, but the most they should weigh. Also, where did you weigh? They seem low for a truck with the capacity to carry a Granby and the camper itself.

 

[Vic Harder]

The OP has noted that putting the Grandby on his short wheel base truck actually made the front axle lighter than it was before putting the camper on. He is also posting the GAWR so we know that he is not exceeding those ratings.

FWC and truck manufacturers recommend that the center of gravity of the payload be ON or in front of the rear axle. If that happens, then the front axle weight will increase too, not just the rear. I believe this recommendation is because having the weight too far back is dangerous and decreases the handling/stability of the rig.

I noted that on my 3500, the front wheel arch went down 1/2" to 1" while the rear went down 2" when I added the camper. Have not weighed it, but that shows that the front is carrying weight, not just the rear. I'd not drive a rig where the front lifted when I added the payload.

 

[eyemgh]

The OP has noted that putting the Grandby on his short wheel base truck actually made the front axle lighter than it was before putting the camper on. He is also posting the GAWR so we know that he is not exceeding those ratings.

FWC and truck manufacturers recommend that the center of gravity of the payload be ON or in front of the rear axle. If that happens, then the front axle weight will increase too, not just the rear. I believe this recommendation is because having the weight too far back is dangerous and decreases the handling/stability of the rig.

I noted that on my 3500, the front wheel arch went down 1/2" to 1" while the rear went down 2" when I added the camper. Have not weighed it, but that shows that the front is carrying weight, not just the rear. I'd not drive a rig where the front lifted when I added the payload.

Got it. Yea, I wouldn't want a truck prone to popping a wheelie either.

 

[EYEMLOST]

What makes you say it lost weight? The GAWR F and R aren't what they do weight, but the most they should weigh. Also, where did you weigh? They seem low for a truck with the capacity to carry a Granby and the camper itself.

A CAT scale.


The CofG for the Granby is 11" behind the rear axle.

Of the 8ft footprint; 5ft is within the bed, and 3ft is beyond the taillights.


With 1ton rear leaf springs/1ton dually rear axle/HMMWV tires combo, I barely know the camper is on.


It wasn't until I weighed the Bronco/camper set up that I realized the front axle was 240lbs lighter, and that the steering did feel 'a little' lighter.


I attached the carrier rack on the front hitch receiver and put 4 5gal water jerry cans on, and then weighed set up again:

Steering axle: 2,820lbs <---Back to factory GAWR

Drive axle: 3,360lbs <---40% of GAWR

 

[EYEMLOST]

1) The OP has noted that putting the Grandby on his short wheel base truck actually made the front axle lighter than it was before putting the camper on. He is also posting the GAWR so we know that he is not exceeding those ratings.

2) FWC and truck manufacturers recommend that the center of gravity of the payload be ON or in front of the rear axle. If that happens, then the front axle weight will increase too, not just the rear. I believe this recommendation is because having the weight too far back is dangerous and decreases the handling/stability of the rig.

3) I noted that on my 3500, the front wheel arch went down 1/2" to 1" while the rear went down 2" when I added the camper. Have not weighed it, but that shows that the front is carrying weight, not just the rear. I'd not drive a rig where the front lifted when I added the payload.

1) All correct.

2) Exactly

3) You bring up a good point that I asked about (question #3).

Like the common practice of exceeding the GVWR with a loaded TC; how many campers drive/travel with a lighter front axle?


FOR THE RECORD:
I've used my FWC while it was on a HMMWV trailer for the 15yrs I've owned it.

With mounting the Granby in the bed of the Bronco; I plan on camping the next 5yrs that way (a TC).


I will be making a big investment decision at the end of said 5yrs as to whether I want another TC or TT (maybe even both!).


The plan is to go fulltime RV'ing at the 6th+ year.

 

[rubberlegs]

All the weight of our fleet is on the rear axle of our Tacoma. Be careful about accessories on the back, which pivot weight off the front and thus add even more to the rear.

 

[eyemgh]

All the weight of our fleet is on the rear axle of our Tacoma. Be careful about accessories on the back, which pivot weight off the front and thus add even more to the rear.

It's super balanced, 3650/3750 loaded for the absolute worst case (2 spares, 4 wheel chains, all safety gear, lots of water, etc.) and 3400/3450 mostly unloaded. That's with both of us in the rig.

 

[Wallowa]

A CAT scale.


The CofG for the Granby is 11" behind the rear axle.

Of the 8ft footprint; 5ft is within the bed, and 3ft is beyond the taillights.


With 1ton rear leaf springs/1ton dually rear axle/HMMWV tires combo, I barely know the camper is on.


It wasn't until I weighed the Bronco/camper set up that I realized the front axle was 240lbs lighter, and that the steering did feel 'a little' lighter.


I attached the carrier rack on the front hitch receiver and put 4 5gal water jerry cans on, and then weighed set up again:

Steering axle: 2,820lbs <---Back to factory GAWR

Drive axle: 3,360lbs <---40% of GAWR


Look this is way out of my league...but what Vic said seems to me to be not only true but a huge red flag concerning your design...any weight aft of the rear axle creates lift forward of the rear axle...including the front axle/steering...the further the distance the load rear of the rear axle the longer the lever arm and the more leverage/affect that weight will create in lifting the front of the vehicle...

I could be entirely wrong in my assumptions but 16% [2,820 vs 3,360...don't see 240 lb difference] less weight on front sounds like asking for trouble and any vertical movement of the load aft of the rear axle will magnify this disparity and future lift/unweight the front end..hit a bump, up comes front end and down goes back end as weight is transferred aft, but back end will rebound and pick up speed coming down the backside of the bump to future lift the front...nasty pogoing could be set up...don't limit your analysis to static conditions but dynamic on the road conditions...but I could be wrong..

Phil

 

[EYEMLOST]

Look this is way out of my league...but what Vic said seems to me to be not only true but a huge red flag concerning your design...any weight aft of the rear axle creates lift forward of the rear axle...including the front axle/steering...the further the distance the load rear of the rear axle the longer the lever arm and the more leverage/affect that weight will create in lifting the front of the vehicle...

I could be entirely wrong in my assumptions but 16% [2,820 vs 3,360...don't see 240 lb difference] less weight on front sounds like asking for trouble and any vertical movement of the load aft of the rear axle will magnify this disparity and future lift/unweight the front end..hit a bump, up comes front end and down goes back end as weight is transferred aft, but back end will rebound and pick up speed coming down the backside of the bump to future lift the front...nasty pogoing could be set up...don't limit your analysis to static conditions but dynamic on the road conditions...but I could be wrong..

Phil

When I 1st put the camper on and weighed everything, Bronco/camper, The result was;

Steer axle: 2,560lbs (factory GAWR - 2,800lbs)

Drive axle: 3,360lbs (swapped in Sterling 10.25 GAWR - 8,250lbs)


Continuing experimenting with weight, I put 4 water-filled jerry cans on the front carrier rack and weighed again;

Steer axle: 2,820lbs <----FACTORY GAWR (+ 20lbs!)

Drive axle: 3,360lbs


So I got the front end back to factory weight.


What I would like to know is the weight distribution on those class-As and class-Cs with the loooong chassis with at least 25+% of it's entire chassis length BEHIND the rear axle, and I'm talking about single rear axle RVs.

IMHO; I'm no worse than those RVs.


Finally; I've been asking this question that no one seems to want to answer:

Like the common practice of exceeding the GVWR with a loaded TC; how many campers drive/travel with a lighter front axle?