Which deep cycle battery to get?

[Alex]

Hi All,

My camper's group 24 Interstate Deep Cycle just died from over discharge (I forgot to turn off the kill switch ). I've been thinking on what to get next, it seems both LifeLine and Trojan are good candidates but both are pretty $$$. Any suggestion on what to get?

Thanks
Alex

 

[pods8]

First things I'd do is contact any battery distributors in your area to see if they have any closeout batteries or such. I was himming/hawing about what to get and then I walked into an interstate dealer and they had some closeout 6V agm batteries for about $70 (normal retail was around $250 I think) so I snagged two of those and put them in series. $140 for 210amp hours of AGM battery is a good deal in my book.

 

[fish more]

Check out the AGM's from Cabelas. They have high rating for reserve power. I installed two group 24's and have been very happy with the performance.

 

[Alex]

Cabelas has a great price, $167.45 shipped on a group 24.
Is it worth the $50 extra to get a Lifeline GPL-24T from http://www.bdbatteries.com/rvflyer.php?id=1 for $219?

 

[Alex]

First things I'd do is contact any battery distributors in your area to see if they have any closeout batteries or such. I was himming/hawing about what to get and then I walked into an interstate dealer and they had some closeout 6V agm batteries for about $70 (normal retail was around $250 I think) so I snagged two of those and put them in series. $140 for 210amp hours of AGM battery is a good deal in my book.


called around and no one offer any closeout. Thanks for the tip though.

 

[Alex]

I believe Cabelas's deep cycle is made by Deka. any more input folks??

 

[George]

Hi All,

My camper's group 24 Interstate Deep Cycle just died from over discharge (I forgot to turn off the kill switch ). I've been thinking on what to get next, it seems both LifeLine and Trojan are good candidates but both are pretty $$$. Any suggestion on what to get?

Thanks
Alex


Hi,

These guys have a nice site. If you dig around there is a lot of information. They like the AGM batteries, including the Deka.

http://store.solar-electric.com/batteries.html

It is easy to kill a battery. When I am not really using the camper, I have put a cheap Walmart deep cycle ($60) in the unit. For the most part there is not much difference. The cheap batteries can go bad, but Walmart does replace for a year, something like that. One theory is buy cheap and just replace the thing fairly often. I'd go premium on a two battery system. They interact and the expensive batteries probably age more predictably.

In theory the AGM is lower resistance, so it will take more charge, charge faster. My Tacoma as wired to the camper system only charges about 12 amps an hour. That makes it hard to recover from a deep discharge just driving.

A lot depends on how hard you will use the battery, how many cycles per year, how deep. AGM is safer and does not really require venting. Cheap batteries are lighter, which suggests a lot less lead in the plates. If I were using 30 amps a day, I would go premium. I actually use about 15 amps a day and carry a decent solar panel. My original Interstate has lasted 40 months, seems OK. Cost per year, cost per night, is OK.

George

 

[chnlisle]

I've been using an Optima because I was concerned with "off-gassing." Do any any of you think this is a problem?

 

[George]

I've been using an Optima because I was concerned with "off-gassing." Do any any of you think this is a problem?


If you use a standard battery, like a set of Trojans, they gas. That's an explosive gas, which means you must vent. All sealed batteries are designed to not vent because if they let water or fluid out, the seal means you can't replace it.

The AGM is designed to be 'recombitant', I think that is the word. The gas recombines or is trapped, but it doesn't build up. If people have room, two golf cart batteries are cheap and they have a fairly long lifespan. But, you have to add water and venting is critical. An AGM can be put anywhere, in any position.

The generation of hydrogen is an issue, mostly with open cells that require adding distilled water. Batteries can just explode, especially if they are dried out and hydrogen builds up inside. Pretty messy and dangerous. The AGM must be fairly immune to blowing up, or they wouldn't let it on airplanes.

You don't really want to put a lot of charge into some sealed batteries. In the old days, people would have sealed batteries and they would dry out quickly in a big truck with a heavy alternator. But I think the voltages are set lower now.

If you want a 'safe' battery buy one that can be taken on an airplane, generally AGM. Optima, Interstate, Concorde, Deka...

Batteries are really annoying. Any glitch in a 12 volt system can kill your charging system. So suddenly the battery is dead. That kind of discharge may be the end of the battery. You end up troubleshooting a loose connection that looks fine, and then you drive just to recharge the battery, if it will still hold a charge.

My advice is monitor the battery every day to get a feel for the charge. Use a good digital voltmeter, with nothing drawing the battery down. My meter, an Ebay special, is hardwired into the circuit. Beyond that, focus on using less amps a day, not having more capacity. What you don't use today...

A lot more than you might want to know, here:

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

George

 

[pods8]

All sealed batteries are designed to not vent because if they let water or fluid out, the seal means you can't replace it.

I believe this is incorrect. The modern sealed lead acid batteries used in many vehicles today are designed to minimize it but they will actually vent, however they don't have fill plugs so they call them "sealed". However they aren't truely sealed because they will leak acid if left on their side or upside down. They don't normally deep cycle, as they aren't designed for it, which would cause them to vent more heavily I believe. AGMs and Gel batteries have a medium to adsorb the battery action and which allows them to be mounted on their side for instance. However even these batteries if over charged will vent and dry out.

My advice is monitor the battery every day to get a feel for the charge. Use a good digital voltmeter, with nothing drawing the battery down.


This. When camping I just quickly check my battery voltage in the morning to see what level things are at (the LED panel is no good enough if you really want to maintain your batteries properly). Lets me know if I need to adjust my behavior on battery consumption if I'm not going to be driving soon. After driving and charging I'll check and see where things are recharged to. Note for anyone new to batteries once the batteries are full and being float charged they will show a higher than normal residual voltage for a while even when the float voltage is removed. I forget exactly how many hours this takes to dissipate but if you are wanting to know if you need to top off your batteries for storage after returning from a trip you should probably check the batteries the next morning.

Personally I think a profile stage charging is the proper way to charge deep cycle batteries, esp. AGM and Gel batteries, verse just taking what your alt puts out. I run a DC-DC stage charger in the truck and have a 120V stage charger wired into my camper so any time I plug the outside of the camper into a power source it starts charging (or floats the batteries if they are already fully charged).

 

[Alex]

A lot of great info here.
I decided to go the cheap route and got a group 24 deep-cycle from Costco for $67. I'll open up the cover for the turn buckle so there is some vent in that area. I'm also getting a Battery Bug (http://www.argusanalyzers.com/battery-monitors/products/bb-dcm12-100.html) to monitor the battery condition. I've a inverter/charger install in the camper so when I'm hook up to 110v the charger will top off the battery. I just need to remember to turn off the kill switch so the battery don't drain to its death.
Please keep all the info coming, it's great for education!

 

[pods8]

A lot of great info here.
I decided to go the cheap route and got a group 24 deep-cycle from Costco for $67. I'll open up the cover for the turn buckle so there is some vent in that area. I'm also getting a Battery Bug (http://www.argusanalyzers.com/battery-monitors/products/bb-dcm12-100.html) to monitor the battery condition. I've a inverter/charger install in the camper so when I'm hook up to 110v the charger will top off the battery. I just need to remember to turn off the kill switch so the battery don't drain to its death.
Please keep all the info coming, it's great for education!


That monitor will work since it says it gives you voltage readings which is really all that matters, the rest is just fluff.

Do you have other constant draws in your camper (like propane, CO detectors) that require the kill switch or are you just worried about this unit?

 

[Alex]

That monitor will work since it says it gives you voltage readings which is really all that matters, the rest is just fluff.

Do you have other constant draws in your camper (like propane, CO detectors) that require the kill switch or are you just worried about this unit?

There are CO, propane and smoke detectors in the camper, I don't think they draw much power but they did killed the battery after 6 month.

 

[pods8]

There are CO, propane and smoke detectors in the camper, I don't think they draw much power but they did killed the battery after 6 month.


Yeah if you have all those little draws and a master kill I'd use it (I don't have one other than pulling the inline fuse but also I don't have all these monitors, I'll likely be adding them on in the long run though).

I'd suggest also getting in the habit of plugging your camper in over night once a month or such when not in use. Batteries also self discharge and keeping them fully topped off is the best way to maximize longevity.

 

[Alex]

Yeah if you have all those little draws and a master kill I'd use it (I don't have one other than pulling the inline fuse but also I don't have all these monitors, I'll likely be adding them on in the long run though).

I'd suggest also getting in the habit of plugging your camper in over night once a month or such when not in use. Batteries also self discharge and keeping them fully topped off is the best way to maximize longevity.


You are right, I should do that.
I got a 18W solar panel and charge controller hook up to my truck full time now when truck is not being use. I'm hoping that's enough to maintain both the truck and house batteries. The panel should be able to provide ~1amp to float charge the batteries.

 

[George]

I believe this is incorrect. The modern sealed lead acid batteries used in many vehicles today are designed to minimize it but they will actually vent, however they don't have fill plugs so they call them "sealed". However they aren't truely sealed because they will leak acid if left on their side or upside down. They don't normally deep cycle, as they aren't designed for it, which would cause them to vent more heavily I believe. AGMs and Gel batteries have a medium to adsorb the battery action and which allows them to be mounted on their side for instance. However even these batteries if over charged will vent and dry out.



This. When camping I just quickly check my battery voltage in the morning to see what level things are at (the LED panel is no good enough if you really want to maintain your batteries properly). Lets me know if I need to adjust my behavior on battery consumption if I'm not going to be driving soon. After driving and charging I'll check and see where things are recharged to. Note for anyone new to batteries once the batteries are full and being float charged they will show a higher than normal residual voltage for a while even when the float voltage is removed. I forget exactly how many hours this takes to dissipate but if you are wanting to know if you need to top off your batteries for storage after returning from a trip you should probably check the batteries the next morning.

Personally I think a profile stage charging is the proper way to charge deep cycle batteries, esp. AGM and Gel batteries, verse just taking what your alt puts out. I run a DC-DC stage charger in the truck and have a 120V stage charger wired into my camper so any time I plug the outside of the camper into a power source it starts charging (or floats the batteries if they are already fully charged).


I mostly agree with what you are saying. The old style battery had caps and if you hooked up a good charger when the battery was down, the electrolyte would bubble. Something has changed in the standard auto battery, because they don't dry out in a few months.

The AGM batteries that they use in mobility devices are allowed on airplanes. I don't think they are allowed to leak anything. There are upper voltage ranges for charging gelled celled and absorbed glass cells, so I know you can kill them. The 'valve regulated' AGM batteries are not supposed to vent any gas, from what I've read. But if you really messed up with a charging circuit, I think there is a final backup at some psi. There is some military specification for the release of gas in extreme overcharging. I don't know where the line is. All AGM are not valve regulated. One AGM manufacturer says a cycle for their batteries is about 30%. That's not much, actually.

It really helps, when monitoring the charge in a battery, to have a rough idea what you will get from you alternator system, into the camper. You can break the connection to the battery and insert an ammeter, but it should be able to handle 20 or 30 amps. An ammeter is handy to determine if a battery is dead, or just not getting a charge.

It is pretty easy to figure out what is coming out of the battery, versus the capacity. The furnace is a killer, drawing 5 amps, but it cycles. I like the strips of LED's for coach lighting, and they are really efficient.

George

 

[pods8]

I mostly agree with what you are saying. The old style battery had caps and if you hooked up a good charger when the battery was down, the electrolyte would bubble. Something has changed in the standard auto battery, because they don't dry out in a few months.

But they will dry out if used/charged improperly and they definately aren't sealed in the sense they can be placed on their side. So they aren't really "sealed" is all I was saying. Either way though these are mainly starting batteries and not deep cycles which we'd be using in campers and will require fluid maintenance so it not really in our battery considerations.

The AGM batteries that they use in mobility devices are allowed on airplanes. I don't think they are allowed to leak anything. There are upper voltage ranges for charging gelled celled and absorbed glass cells, so I know you can kill them. The 'valve regulated' AGM batteries are not supposed to vent any gas, from what I've read. But if you really messed up with a charging circuit, I think there is a final backup at some psi. There is some military specification for the release of gas in extreme overcharging. I don't know where the line is. All AGM are not valve regulated. One AGM manufacturer says a cycle for their batteries is about 30%. That's not much, actually.

Not positive how they fully work but again I'm pointing out these can be over charged and killed (I assumed through venting).

An ammeter is handy to determine if a battery is dead, or just not getting a charge.


I don't have one on hand (do you have a dedicated one or a nice fluk type multimeter?) and agree it would be handy but with two different charging sources on my rig I figure if neither are able to charge the battery that my battery is toast rather than a double charger failure (assuming the obvious blown fuse and wiring connections are already ruled out).

 

[chnlisle]

OK then I guess I won't fix what isn't broken thanks guys.

 

[pods8]

OK then I guess I won't fix what isn't broken thanks guys.


Sorry missed that. Optima is a AGM so you shouldn't have any issue there. If you were thinking of going a regular deep cycle battery you should try to relatively seal it from your camper compartment and vent it outside.