Adding a lithium Ion battery to FWC
- Thread starter cdbrow1
- Start date
enelson
Senior Member
The details of my installation are on this thread http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/topic/9838-lithium-batteries-installed-in-hallmark-k2/cdbrow1 said:
It also answers your question about how to keep track of state of charge of the LiFePo battery. The answer is an amp hour meter. My BMS board has current shunts and a battery management integrated circuit that does the amp hour calculations. I wish the BMS was available for purchase at the moment but I think there is a delay before more are released.
craig333
Riley's Human
Thank you all for doing this. Hopefully by the time they drop in price to where I'll consider it we'll have all the bugs worked out.
enelson
Senior Member
cdbrow1, I forgot that you had already read the thread where I described my build. I you have any specific questions you can ask them on this thread or PM me.
I did remove my lead acid battery charger completely from the camper and only use solar or truck DC directly to into my solar Battery Management System board. The BMS has distinct IN, BATT, LOAD terminals and it is not possible to both charge and discharge via the LOAD like the way a lead acid battery charger would do. The IN has solar and truck DC connected, the BATT has only the battery + terminal connected, the LOAD connects to the Progressive Dynamics power box that was factory installed. The LOAD power is connected where the lead acid battery charger would have normally connected to the 12V DC Bus. All the negative (return) DC lines are shorted together since the BMS is only designed to work on the positive side of the DC circuits. My inverter is also connected to the LOAD on the BMS. The AC from the inverter is connected to the AC bus on the Progressive Dynamics Box. That way my three AC outlets all have inverter power on them. The shore power AC that was installed in the camper is presently not hooked to anything. I will eventually run it to the 2-way frig. When I want to charge the battery from shore power I just plug a 12V 3.5A supply to the truck power cable and this can top off the battery.
Eric Nelson
I did remove my lead acid battery charger completely from the camper and only use solar or truck DC directly to into my solar Battery Management System board. The BMS has distinct IN, BATT, LOAD terminals and it is not possible to both charge and discharge via the LOAD like the way a lead acid battery charger would do. The IN has solar and truck DC connected, the BATT has only the battery + terminal connected, the LOAD connects to the Progressive Dynamics power box that was factory installed. The LOAD power is connected where the lead acid battery charger would have normally connected to the 12V DC Bus. All the negative (return) DC lines are shorted together since the BMS is only designed to work on the positive side of the DC circuits. My inverter is also connected to the LOAD on the BMS. The AC from the inverter is connected to the AC bus on the Progressive Dynamics Box. That way my three AC outlets all have inverter power on them. The shore power AC that was installed in the camper is presently not hooked to anything. I will eventually run it to the 2-way frig. When I want to charge the battery from shore power I just plug a 12V 3.5A supply to the truck power cable and this can top off the battery.
Eric Nelson
photohc
Senior Member
cdbrow1, thanks for sharing. I assume you left all the components installed by FWC as is. All you did was to remove the AGM battery and replace with the LiFePo4 battery? So this would mean, the IOTA converter/charger, and solar panel/controller is still hooked up?
photohc
Senior Member
That is correct. Remove the charge source once you've reached full charge. You may want to check with Stark if the BMS (battery management system) does that for you. The BMS I'm getting from Electrodacus, does that as part of the management system.cdbrow1 said:
I've been looking at my current 2xAGMs, solar, and IOTA wiring and planning for my lithium/bms arrival. I'll need to do some changes the way the IOTA is hooked up to the system. The IOTA currently is wired directly to the fuse block. There is a on/off switch that connects/disconnects the AGM battery to the fuse box. The IOTA charges the AGM's via this connection to the battery. That is why, if you are plugged into shore power, the battery will not charge unless the switch is on. If off, the battery is disconnected from the fuse block and therefore not receiving current from the IOTA but the rest of the camper is still powered by the IOTA.cdbrow1 said:
A little complicated but this is the best I could figure out. If your bms shuts down the charging, then your okay the way you have it, otherwise you may need to disconnect the shore power once the batteries reach 100%.
Advmoto18
Senior Member
My HAWK is on order. So I am writing based only on what I've read and researched.
According to the FWC Support/Service Manuals/Electrical & Solar web page, the Morningstar SS-6-12V solar controller is installed in the camper.
According to the Morningstar web site (linked by FWC) this controller does not support LiFePO batteries.
The Bioenno Power 12V/24V, 30A Solar Controller (Model SC-122430T) is designed specifcally for LiFePO batteries.
I wonder if swapping out the Morningstar for the Bioenno is called for when using a STARPOWER 100Ah LiFePO battery?
According to the FWC Support/Service Manuals/Electrical & Solar web page, the Morningstar SS-6-12V solar controller is installed in the camper.
According to the Morningstar web site (linked by FWC) this controller does not support LiFePO batteries.
The Bioenno Power 12V/24V, 30A Solar Controller (Model SC-122430T) is designed specifcally for LiFePO batteries.
I wonder if swapping out the Morningstar for the Bioenno is called for when using a STARPOWER 100Ah LiFePO battery?
photohc said:
I think the FWC kill switch works for me. I will plug in the camper overnight before trips to precool the fridge with the kill switch activated (battery isolated) and put a quick charge in the battery for an hour or two before I leave by deactivating the kill switch.
DesertDave
Senior Member
As far as I know, FWC isn't using that Mornigstar controller in their current builds, they used this one in mine built about 8 months ago. http://www.zampsolar.com/product/15-amp-pwm-solar-charge-controller/Advmoto18 said:
Can't speak to it's suitability for your needs. I like it for AGM batteries.
Just a quick update. We just moved my office and used my FWC fridge to keep cold beverages on hand. I ran it from Saturday night through Monday night without using line power (I did drive about 15 miles). Beverages were still icy cold this evening. The FWC battery gauge still says "full" (but of course it would being a voltage gauge).
Another update.
Left the FWC plugged in to line power on Weds for about 4 hours and confirmed the IOTA charges does operate as described. Once it was on "float" I turned I unplugged the camper and hit the kill switch. At this point I am fairly sure the IOTA will work fine for charging the LiFePo battery as long as I don't leave it on "float." I REALLY wish the IOTA LED was in a better location. It's really a pain to see it.
I also have wired up my Inverter (Xantrax Prowatt SW 2000), although I still need to wire the remote control and the 110 side. I confirmed that the battery will provide enough amps to run my 800 watt microwave and my portable A/C. I will use the microwave a lot and might use the portable A/C int he summer (although I doubt it). I did not try both at once, but I can't see when I would need to do that. In a 5 minute test the voltage on the inverter display dropped from 13.3 to 11.9, with a recovery of under one minute to 13.3 after I was done.
I will post some pictures of the inverter when I get it properly mounted. I used a very high quality 4 gauge wire and have a run about 20 inches. I am connected right to the battery, except for a 150 amp fuse.
The next project will be installing a Xantrex Link Lite battery monitor (amp meter). That should start giving me some idea what is going on with battery capacity.
At this point I am very happy with this upgrade and so far it has stood up to everything I have thrown at it.
I might do some day trips over the weekend in which I use the fridge and microwave, however the current weather in NorCal does not invite outdoor activity.
Left the FWC plugged in to line power on Weds for about 4 hours and confirmed the IOTA charges does operate as described. Once it was on "float" I turned I unplugged the camper and hit the kill switch. At this point I am fairly sure the IOTA will work fine for charging the LiFePo battery as long as I don't leave it on "float." I REALLY wish the IOTA LED was in a better location. It's really a pain to see it.
I also have wired up my Inverter (Xantrax Prowatt SW 2000), although I still need to wire the remote control and the 110 side. I confirmed that the battery will provide enough amps to run my 800 watt microwave and my portable A/C. I will use the microwave a lot and might use the portable A/C int he summer (although I doubt it). I did not try both at once, but I can't see when I would need to do that. In a 5 minute test the voltage on the inverter display dropped from 13.3 to 11.9, with a recovery of under one minute to 13.3 after I was done.
I will post some pictures of the inverter when I get it properly mounted. I used a very high quality 4 gauge wire and have a run about 20 inches. I am connected right to the battery, except for a 150 amp fuse.
The next project will be installing a Xantrex Link Lite battery monitor (amp meter). That should start giving me some idea what is going on with battery capacity.
At this point I am very happy with this upgrade and so far it has stood up to everything I have thrown at it.
I might do some day trips over the weekend in which I use the fridge and microwave, however the current weather in NorCal does not invite outdoor activity.
I got out today to Point Reyes for a 6 mile walk along the beach. Lovely day between storms. I used the FWC to keep my drinks cold and cooked lunch in the microwave. Voltage stayed over 12.1 on the inverter for 5 minute cook time - better than driveway test. Voltage was back to 13.3 after cooking in under a minute. I think the microwave is about the worst thing I could through at the battery and inverter and it barely seems to notice it, I am drawing 980 watts from the inverter (per the inverter display) for 5 minutes. That is about a 9 AMP hit on the battery from my math. Nice to have hot spicy chili on the beach with no dirty pans or mess in the camper tho clean up.
I have ordered a LiFePo battery charger to ensure I am topping off the battery on a regular basis -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EUF6UM8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EUF6UM8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
PaulT
Need gumbo
About that IQ4 LED... On my Hawk, the IQ4 is screwed into the bottom of the shelf. It does make it a pain to see. However, the unit has a RJ11 plug and cable. On mine, there is some additional length of cable wire-tied to shorten it. If your is that way, why not clip the cable tie and move the IQ4 to a lower more visible location?
Paul
Paul
Mine is in the bottom of a shelf behind the heater. The only way to see the LED is to look though the battery door. The end I can see is the fan side so I can't see any of the wiring. I assume if I took off some of the interior panels I could get too it. I might be doing some more wiring in the future which would require opening up the panels so I will wait until then to see what I cans see on the IQ4.PaulT said:
Added some bits this afternoon -
Xantrax Link Lite (amp meter)
CTEK battery charger
The Xantrax is similar, but has less features, than the Bogart TriMetric that a lot of people use. For me it was purely a space issue. The Xantrax is a lot smaller and easier to use. It uses a 500 amp shunt on the ground side just like the Trimetric.
I mounted it low on the cabinet near the battery, it is at eye level when I am standing on the ground in the doorway. I spend a lot of time in this position when I am cooking. I can duck down to read it from inside the camper if I need to.
I programmed the battery as a 98 amp hr battery with alarms at 30% remaining.
According to the Xantrax the charging rate at idle (GMC 2500 with FWC wiring) is right around 9.3 amps (seems pretty good to me).
I also connected a new battery charger via the solar connector on the back wall. This is an 8 stage LiFePo specific charger. It is fairly small at 5 amps (4.5 effective), but it is not my sole charger (Factory IOTA and alternator are still connected). It was bulk charging tonight at 4.3 amps. Hopefully it will be complete by morning. It will automatically stop charging and not do a "float" charge when the battery is full.
So far no issues with the change over. I will continue to update.
Xantrax Link Lite (amp meter)
CTEK battery charger
The Xantrax is similar, but has less features, than the Bogart TriMetric that a lot of people use. For me it was purely a space issue. The Xantrax is a lot smaller and easier to use. It uses a 500 amp shunt on the ground side just like the Trimetric.
I mounted it low on the cabinet near the battery, it is at eye level when I am standing on the ground in the doorway. I spend a lot of time in this position when I am cooking. I can duck down to read it from inside the camper if I need to.
I programmed the battery as a 98 amp hr battery with alarms at 30% remaining.
According to the Xantrax the charging rate at idle (GMC 2500 with FWC wiring) is right around 9.3 amps (seems pretty good to me).
I also connected a new battery charger via the solar connector on the back wall. This is an 8 stage LiFePo specific charger. It is fairly small at 5 amps (4.5 effective), but it is not my sole charger (Factory IOTA and alternator are still connected). It was bulk charging tonight at 4.3 amps. Hopefully it will be complete by morning. It will automatically stop charging and not do a "float" charge when the battery is full.
So far no issues with the change over. I will continue to update.
Attachments
Similar threads - WTW
- dslada760
- Four Wheel Camper Discussions
- Replies: 10
- Views: 2K
- zoomzoom
- Four Wheel Camper Discussions
- Replies: 4
- Views: 392
- DavidGraves
- Electrical, Charging, Solar, Batteries and Generat
- Replies: 4
- Views: 2K
- Jon R
- Four Wheel Camper Discussions
- Replies: 8
- Views: 702
