PaulT
Need gumbo
If you continue to get mixed results, acquire a clamp on meter that reads DC. Clamp it over any wire where you need a current measurement and remove doubt.
Paul
Paul
Adding a lithium Ion battery to FWC
- Thread starter cdbrow1
- Start date
Today's test was a much happier story.
At no point did the gauge drop below 95% (after using the microwave) and the gauge was at 98-100% when just using the fridge and driving. At the end of the drive I was at 99.5%.
All is good.
Off tomorrow and thinking of heading up to the Bizz Johnson trail if this great weather holds.
At no point did the gauge drop below 95% (after using the microwave) and the gauge was at 98-100% when just using the fridge and driving. At the end of the drive I was at 99.5%.
All is good.
Off tomorrow and thinking of heading up to the Bizz Johnson trail if this great weather holds.
Headed up to the hills again today. Everything worked as expected. I think I need to do some fine tuning on the Xantrax gauge settings after I talk to Stark power. Battery was at 98 or above every time I stopped, except after I cooked lunch.
Found another oddity this morning, which has me stumped.
I left the unit on the LiFePo charger overnight. In checking this morning I saw that both the truck and camper battery were at the same voltage (13.6V). The disconnect switch has been thrown so the camper battery is (supposedly) isolated from the truck but the truck battery should be at 12.6 votes max after sitting over night. The fact that both batteries are at the same voltage seems odd to me, especially when it is above the normal "resting" voltage.
I have verified that the system property isolates the camper battery so it does not deplete the truck battery in the past. Is it possible that the isolator (surepower 1314a) allows the camper battery to charge the truck battery? In reading the surepower documents it is not clear what happens when the house battery has more voltage than the truck battery. It does state that linking is possible but only manually - is would be automatic linking if the charge in the house battery exceeds the truck battery.
Anybody have any thoughts?
I left the unit on the LiFePo charger overnight. In checking this morning I saw that both the truck and camper battery were at the same voltage (13.6V). The disconnect switch has been thrown so the camper battery is (supposedly) isolated from the truck but the truck battery should be at 12.6 votes max after sitting over night. The fact that both batteries are at the same voltage seems odd to me, especially when it is above the normal "resting" voltage.
I have verified that the system property isolates the camper battery so it does not deplete the truck battery in the past. Is it possible that the isolator (surepower 1314a) allows the camper battery to charge the truck battery? In reading the surepower documents it is not clear what happens when the house battery has more voltage than the truck battery. It does state that linking is possible but only manually - is would be automatic linking if the charge in the house battery exceeds the truck battery.
Anybody have any thoughts?
PaulT
Need gumbo
From the Isolator data sheet:
[SIZE=11pt]"When the starter is activated the BATTERY SEPARATOR compares the voltage of both battery banks. If the
chassis' battery is lower than the auxiliary battery bank, the BATTERY SEPARATOR will engage allowing the
auxiliary battery bank to aid in vehicle starting. The start signal must be at least three volts for the operation
to occur.[/SIZE]"
This implies to me that your observational analysis is correct. It also states that with a low battery in the truck, the camper battery could be called on to help start the truck. Not necessarily a great idea with 10 ga wires.
I wish I had seen this in an earlier thread about keeping the truck battery charged by the camper solar system while the unit was parked for 6 weeks at the airport. I suggested a Rube Goldberg approach to accomplish what the solar system with the battery isolator seems to do already. (sigh)
Paul
[SIZE=11pt]"When the starter is activated the BATTERY SEPARATOR compares the voltage of both battery banks. If the
chassis' battery is lower than the auxiliary battery bank, the BATTERY SEPARATOR will engage allowing the
auxiliary battery bank to aid in vehicle starting. The start signal must be at least three volts for the operation
to occur.[/SIZE]"
This implies to me that your observational analysis is correct. It also states that with a low battery in the truck, the camper battery could be called on to help start the truck. Not necessarily a great idea with 10 ga wires.
I wish I had seen this in an earlier thread about keeping the truck battery charged by the camper solar system while the unit was parked for 6 weeks at the airport. I suggested a Rube Goldberg approach to accomplish what the solar system with the battery isolator seems to do already. (sigh)
Paul
PaulT
Need gumbo
I think you are onto a better solution. I use these on my boats and there isn't any real difference from the task an isolator does in the camper. I am inclined to install under the hood rather than in the camper.
They have a sensing line that is supposed to be hooked up to the "engine starting" signal. Its purpose is to protect turned on electronic devices from voltage spikes when the engine is starting up. If you don't have that signal available, don't hook it up.
Paul
They have a sensing line that is supposed to be hooked up to the "engine starting" signal. Its purpose is to protect turned on electronic devices from voltage spikes when the engine is starting up. If you don't have that signal available, don't hook it up.
Paul
photohc
Senior Member
In preparation for my Lithium install, I did a wire trace of my Hawk electrical hook up and called Brenda (FWC) to confirm somethings. The 12v disconnect switch only removes the camper battery from the 12v circuit of the camper. The IOTA connects directly to the fuse buss and allows power to the 12v circuits even if the 12v switch is turn off. Because the IOTA first goes to bus then the battery, turning off the 12v switch, removes the battery from the buss and the IOTA.cdbrow1 said:
The circuit from the truck alternator/battery is not part of this 12v switch. The wire runs directly from the truck battery to the separator then the battery. If the separator is not engaged (truck engine off), there should be no current flowing back to the truck battery. Maybe a diagram might help:
I just got an email from Blue Sea Systems and they confirmed that all of their isolators would allow the house battery (at a resting 14 volts) to charge the truck battery (resting of 12.6 volts). In their words "we have nothing to help you."
This really is not a huge problem - I am just loosing some capacity that "leaks" to the truck batteries. Once the Aux battery gets below the truck batteries the isolator kicks in. Still I would rather have access to every amp that I can.
I have some ideas, but I need to do a bit of thinking.
This really is not a huge problem - I am just loosing some capacity that "leaks" to the truck batteries. Once the Aux battery gets below the truck batteries the isolator kicks in. Still I would rather have access to every amp that I can.
I have some ideas, but I need to do a bit of thinking.
if you read the installation instructions for the 1314 and 1315 separator you will see that the starting option is only available if you connect the additional starting wire either off the ignition switch starter side or off a manual switch.
As normally wired the two batteries are not connected for starting thus the 10 gauge wire isn't carrying a starting load. If it was everyone that has 10 gauge wire in their trucks would long ago have burnt them up.
Granted the instructions aren't too clear on this, refer to the diagram.
The 1314 is a unidirectional separator, it only allows the camper battery to be charged. The 1315 is bi directional and will allow the truck battery to charge off solar or other sources via the camper if the voltage requirements are met.
Dsrtrat
As normally wired the two batteries are not connected for starting thus the 10 gauge wire isn't carrying a starting load. If it was everyone that has 10 gauge wire in their trucks would long ago have burnt them up.
Granted the instructions aren't too clear on this, refer to the diagram.
The 1314 is a unidirectional separator, it only allows the camper battery to be charged. The 1315 is bi directional and will allow the truck battery to charge off solar or other sources via the camper if the voltage requirements are met.
Dsrtrat
PaulT
Need gumbo
The major difference between the factory installed isolator and the Blue Sea ACR has to do with the extra "help" the voltage sensing provides you.
The first time I used the camper, I let the battery get too low before starting the truck. I didn't have the internet with me so couldn't read the data sheet to learn what was happening. I was camped under tall fir trees that cast some shadows on the panel so solar was not keeping up with the fridge and I had no access to AC power. The clicking of the isolator as it tried to connect and then disconnected had me confused.
After leaving the campsite, I pulled off the road in full sun and saw that I was getting nearly 6 amps charging again. The battery was not fully charged after driving 3 hours. The Iota brought the batteries back up sometime during the night at home.
The experience started me on gaining a better understanding on how the systems worked. Not a bad thing, I guess. Just a continuing saga as all these battery/solar/isolator/alternator/Iota threads would suggest.
Paul
The first time I used the camper, I let the battery get too low before starting the truck. I didn't have the internet with me so couldn't read the data sheet to learn what was happening. I was camped under tall fir trees that cast some shadows on the panel so solar was not keeping up with the fridge and I had no access to AC power. The clicking of the isolator as it tried to connect and then disconnected had me confused.
After leaving the campsite, I pulled off the road in full sun and saw that I was getting nearly 6 amps charging again. The battery was not fully charged after driving 3 hours. The Iota brought the batteries back up sometime during the night at home.
The experience started me on gaining a better understanding on how the systems worked. Not a bad thing, I guess. Just a continuing saga as all these battery/solar/isolator/alternator/Iota threads would suggest.
Paul
billharr
Senior Member
I still have my old 12 v solenoid under the hood of my Tundra. This is how my 2002 Hawk was wired and I just left it in place already had 6 gage wire on it.
All this talk about problems with the new isolators in the camper has me thinking about bridging the new isolator and just use the old solenoid. Anyone see a problem doing this?
All this talk about problems with the new isolators in the camper has me thinking about bridging the new isolator and just use the old solenoid. Anyone see a problem doing this?
longhorn1
Ouch, that stings!
X2, topic is way over my head. May add the additional 80-watt panel. jdKILR0Y said:
craig333
Riley's Human
Makes me glad I just use a switch.
At this point the Lithium is still a plug and play option - the only non stock thing involved is the Xantrax amp meter (which is a smaller version of the Trimeteric). I need to make a few phone calls to vendors and try to get a handle on what is really going on here. I am very confused when I see the truck battery volts climbing and the camper volts dropping after the engine is off. Perhaps I have a bad isolator or an installation issue.longhorn1 said:
Tonight I will disconnect the wire to the truck battery and see if the voltage still drops on the camper battery. That should settle the issue.
Well this is an obvious solution (or it could be overkill....)
http://www.blacksnakesystems.com/page12.html
http://www.blacksnakesystems.com/page12.html
This is a very good FAQ sheet and also talks about the alternator shut off issue I brought up.....they don't seem to have a fix yet.
http://www.blacksnakesystems.com/Why%20use%20a%20Dual%20Battery%20Isolator.pdf
http://www.blacksnakesystems.com/Why%20use%20a%20Dual%20Battery%20Isolator.pdf
photohc
Senior Member
Could the Separator be stuck in the closed position? Disconnect all connections to the Separator. Check for continuity between the truck battery post and the camper battery post. Should be open (no continuity).cdbrow1 said:
As for the 0.5 amp drain, I assume this is measured from the Xantrax? Best to use a DC clamp meter to see if it is true.
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