Air bag and tire pressure

[Vic Harder]

Most importantly, separate the airbags, and go from there.

+1

 

[ottorogers]

+1

Vic appreciate your comments, did you separate your air bags and notice a difference???

 

[Vic Harder]

I'll just throw a small wrench in here that MAY explain some sway issue, though I have no experience with Tundras. My '08 Dodge 3500 has Ride Rite bags than mount between the axle and where the factory bump stop used to be. Inside the frame rails...A necessity due to the vehicle design of frame width vs body width. This "narrow" mounting seems to make the vehicle "sway" (read rock side to side) more so than my old '93 Dodge where the bags were mounted outside the frame rail. With that truck I ran a 3000 lb Six Pac cabover that was quite stable with the air bags inflated, where as my current truck rolls much more significantly with my 15-1800 lb ATC Cougar. Tires were essentially the same, air bag pressures also. Only difference I can conclude is the location of the air bags. Just a couple of pennies of thought....

I just read about this as I was researching this issue. Indeed, on newer Dodge/Ram trucks the air bags have to be mounted differently and this INCREACES sway. Not the OP's issue, as he has a Toyota, but still... worth noting!

Look for the post by "P Kennedy on 03/28/09 08:45am" in this thread
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/22580062/print/true.cfm

 

[Vic Harder]

Vic appreciate your comments, did you separate your air bags and notice a difference???

I don't have airbags in my rig. Camper is mounted full time and I am not over GVRW. After re-reading this thread tonight, I am thinking you have some good options and experience to draw on from this forum:

1) The shocks are suspect, but from your pics look new. 5100 Bilsteins are what I use, and I think they are slightly under sized for my rig. Not enough to worry about though. You indicated you would be looking at getting those. Sounds like a good idea.

2) You looked at extra leafs... from a spring shop in Phoenix. Home is Sask. Can you wait until you are on your homeward leg and stop in Boise, ID? The folks at Springworks have a great rep. http://www.boisespringworks.com/ IF the camper is on there full time, or if you can live with it riding very stiff empty, then this would be a super good idea.

3) Separating the lines - many here have suggested this and it is a super easy and quick test. Why not?

4) You mentioned in your original post that you have new tires and new air bags. Air pressure in both has been discussed. I don't recall seeing you talk about if the camper was new to you at the same time? As in, are there THREE new variables here? Did you drive the truck and camper together before the air bags? Before the new tires? In some threads out there in the wildernet, I hear that specfic tires can also cause sway. Yours look like an aggressive mud/snow tire? That is also worth considering.

5) You also mention in your first post that it sways on the highway. Under what conditions? Side wind? Changing lanes? Passing semis? How is it on twisty roads?

6) You have also now changed air pressure in both tires and bags. How would you describe the effect of each change?

7) Most importantly, Merry Christmas, and don't let this ruin your trip down south! It can, and will be resolved!

 

[abqbw]

You have to fix this. It is very dangerous. I have the same truck and camper as you and have zero sway issues. It's the rear springs. In my opinion you have to get new rear springs. You can get rid of the air bags if you do. Off road suspensions are generally going to be ill-suited to carrying these campers. The camper empty is overloaded for our Tundra trucks.

I am convinced that if I didn't get new rear springs and had a sway issue I would be dead. I did a stupid thing. I was going up the freeway fully loaded at least 75mph and I wasn't paying attention and ran up on a semi truck going slow. I looked up and saw the semi at the last second. I had to panic jam the steering wheel into the left lane to go around. I mean I really really performed a very abrupt panic lane switch. My suspension is so perfectly able to handle the weight I was able to jump over one lane exactly and maintain perfect straight control when I got there.

I have 2011 Tundra and 2017 Hawk with everything -solar, front dinette, fridge, inside and outside shower, two batteries. I go on long hunting trips and really stuff the camper and the truck cab full of stuff, including full water tank and hot water tank. I often have a giant yeti cooler with tons of ice in the cab for any meat I may harvest. To this load I may add several hundred pounds of wild game for the ride home. I also often tow a 5x10 utility trailer with an ATV and even more stuff. Point being, I am way way overloaded. My truck has a softer TRD Pro off road suspension that I suspect is similar to your OME suspension. My tires are wrangler duratrek load range E or Michelin LTX2 M/S load range E. I keep them in the 55 psi range but often let them down to 40-45 psi in the dirt and drive on the highway at that psi range.

I don't have airbags. I didn't want them because I off-road a lot. The key to my truck being able to handle the load so well is that I had Boise Spring Works redo the rear leaf springs. My truck rides a little stiff without the camper, but with the camper it is absolutely perfect. It corners great, handles horrendous cross winds, and rides great off road. I suggest you talk to Russ at Boise Spring Works and tell him you want what Brandon Wynn has. Literally saved my life.

I originally had a 2016 Hawk shell with heat and a stove and Boise Spring Works set up the springs for it. I think they removed two leaves and added 3 or 4 for a net addition of two leaves. I loved the shell so much I decided to go "all in" and got a the new Hawk fully loaded model. As the new Hawk is heavier I took it back to Boise Spring Works and (I think) Russ added another nearly full length spring. Both times he really nailed the suspension.

My dealer, Denny Saunders recommended Boise Spring Works. I live in Albuquerque NM and it is a looong drive out of my way to Jackson WY to get the campers to also go to Boise, ID to get the spring work done. But it was well worth it, both times.

I really like not having to mess with airbags and trying to figure out pressure etc. And the key to the functionality of the TRD Pro off road suspension is added down travel. Air bags are problematic when it comes to maintaining down travel.

Lastly, one other thing I have is beefed up shackles on the rear springs. The factory Tundra shackles apparently are junk and introduce a lot of flex. The shackles were made my a guy named Erik (Eric) that goes under the name coachbuilder. If you are interested I can dig out more specifics. I think the shackles are part of the reason my suspension carries the load so well..

Good luck and Merry Merry!!!!

 

[ottorogers]

You have to fix this. It is very dangerous. I have the same truck and camper as you and have zero sway issues. It's the rear springs. In my opinion you have to get new rear springs. You can get rid of the air bags if you do. Off road suspensions are generally going to be ill-suited to carrying these campers. The camper empty is overloaded for our Tundra trucks.

I am convinced that if I didn't get new rear springs and had a sway issue I would be dead. I did a stupid thing. I was going up the freeway fully loaded at least 75mph and I wasn't paying attention and ran up on a semi truck going slow. I looked up and saw the semi at the last second. I had to panic jam the steering wheel into the left lane to go around. I mean I really really performed a very abrupt panic lane switch. My suspension is so perfectly able to handle the weight I was able to jump over one lane exactly and maintain perfect straight control when I got there.

I have 2011 Tundra and 2017 Hawk with everything -solar, front dinette, fridge, inside and outside shower, two batteries. I go on long hunting trips and really stuff the camper and the truck cab full of stuff, including full water tank and hot water tank. I often have a giant yeti cooler with tons of ice in the cab for any meat I may harvest. To this load I may add several hundred pounds of wild game for the ride home. I also often tow a 5x10 utility trailer with an ATV and even more stuff. Point being, I am way way overloaded. My truck has a softer TRD Pro off road suspension that I suspect is similar to your OME suspension. My tires are wrangler duratrek load range E or Michelin LTX2 M/S load range E. I keep them in the 55 psi range but often let them down to 40-45 psi in the dirt and drive on the highway at that psi range.

I don't have airbags. I didn't want them because I off-road a lot. The key to my truck being able to handle the load so well is that I had Boise Spring Works redo the rear leaf springs. My truck rides a little stiff without the camper, but with the camper it is absolutely perfect. It corners great, handles horrendous cross winds, and rides great off road. I suggest you talk to Russ at Boise Spring Works and tell him you want what Brandon Wynn has. Literally saved my life.

I originally had a 2016 Hawk shell with heat and a stove and Boise Spring Works set up the springs for it. I think they removed two leaves and added 3 or 4 for a net addition of two leaves. I loved the shell so much I decided to go "all in" and got a the new Hawk fully loaded model. As the new Hawk is heavier I took it back to Boise Spring Works and (I think) Russ added another nearly full length spring. Both times he really nailed the suspension.

My dealer, Denny Saunders recommended Boise Spring Works. I live in Albuquerque NM and it is a looong drive out of my way to Jackson WY to get the campers to also go to Boise, ID to get the spring work done. But it was well worth it, both times.

I really like not having to mess with airbags and trying to figure out pressure etc. And the key to the functionality of the TRD Pro off road suspension is added down travel. Air bags are problematic when it comes to maintaining down travel.

Lastly, one other thing I have is beefed up shackles on the rear springs. The factory Tundra shackles apparently are junk and introduce a lot of flex. The shackles were made my a guy named Erik (Eric) that goes under the name coachbuilder. If you are interested I can dig out more specifics. I think the shackles are part of the reason my suspension carries the load so well..

Good luck and Merry Merry!!!!

thank you so much!!!!

Do you digest 2 full length extra springs? Can’t wait till April to go to Boise, I’m going to Valley spring in Phoenix, but it really helps to know what to tell them to do or what I want

From what you are saying I’m thinking 2 full length Springs may be what is needed.

I donor feel these trucks are a problem being overloaded with the right suspension at all. We just have to get it right

Do you have the 46 gallon gas tank??

 

[ottorogers]

You have to fix this. It is very dangerous. I have the same truck and camper as you and have zero sway issues. It's the rear springs. In my opinion you have to get new rear springs. You can get rid of the air bags if you do. Off road suspensions are generally going to be ill-suited to carrying these campers. The camper empty is overloaded for our Tundra trucks.

I am convinced that if I didn't get new rear springs and had a sway issue I would be dead. I did a stupid thing. I was going up the freeway fully loaded at least 75mph and I wasn't paying attention and ran up on a semi truck going slow. I looked up and saw the semi at the last second. I had to panic jam the steering wheel into the left lane to go around. I mean I really really performed a very abrupt panic lane switch. My suspension is so perfectly able to handle the weight I was able to jump over one lane exactly and maintain perfect straight control when I got there.

I have 2011 Tundra and 2017 Hawk with everything -solar, front dinette, fridge, inside and outside shower, two batteries. I go on long hunting trips and really stuff the camper and the truck cab full of stuff, including full water tank and hot water tank. I often have a giant yeti cooler with tons of ice in the cab for any meat I may harvest. To this load I may add several hundred pounds of wild game for the ride home. I also often tow a 5x10 utility trailer with an ATV and even more stuff. Point being, I am way way overloaded. My truck has a softer TRD Pro off road suspension that I suspect is similar to your OME suspension. My tires are wrangler duratrek load range E or Michelin LTX2 M/S load range E. I keep them in the 55 psi range but often let them down to 40-45 psi in the dirt and drive on the highway at that psi range.

I don't have airbags. I didn't want them because I off-road a lot. The key to my truck being able to handle the load so well is that I had Boise Spring Works redo the rear leaf springs. My truck rides a little stiff without the camper, but with the camper it is absolutely perfect. It corners great, handles horrendous cross winds, and rides great off road. I suggest you talk to Russ at Boise Spring Works and tell him you want what Brandon Wynn has. Literally saved my life.

I originally had a 2016 Hawk shell with heat and a stove and Boise Spring Works set up the springs for it. I think they removed two leaves and added 3 or 4 for a net addition of two leaves. I loved the shell so much I decided to go "all in" and got a the new Hawk fully loaded model. As the new Hawk is heavier I took it back to Boise Spring Works and (I think) Russ added another nearly full length spring. Both times he really nailed the suspension.

My dealer, Denny Saunders recommended Boise Spring Works. I live in Albuquerque NM and it is a looong drive out of my way to Jackson WY to get the campers to also go to Boise, ID to get the spring work done. But it was well worth it, both times.

I really like not having to mess with airbags and trying to figure out pressure etc. And the key to the functionality of the TRD Pro off road suspension is added down travel. Air bags are problematic when it comes to maintaining down travel.

Lastly, one other thing I have is beefed up shackles on the rear springs. The factory Tundra shackles apparently are junk and introduce a lot of flex. The shackles were made my a guy named Erik (Eric) that goes under the name coachbuilder. If you are interested I can dig out more specifics. I think the shackles are part of the reason my suspension carries the load so well..

Good luck and Merry Merry!!!!

another point here is the airbags will be necessary if I am loaded heavier in one side, or do you feel the beefed up leaf springs will take care of heavier loads on one side??? I’m adding a 46 gallon tank, that’s 120 extra weight on one side when full

 

[ottorogers]

I don't have airbags in my rig. Camper is mounted full time and I am not over GVRW. After re-reading this thread tonight, I am thinking you have some good options and experience to draw on from this forum:

1) The shocks are suspect, but from your pics look new. 5100 Bilsteins are what I use, and I think they are slightly under sized for my rig. Not enough to worry about though. You indicated you would be looking at getting those. Sounds like a good idea.

2) You looked at extra leafs... from a spring shop in Phoenix. Home is Sask. Can you wait until you are on your homeward leg and stop in Boise, ID? The folks at Springworks have a great rep. http://www.boisespringworks.com/ IF the camper is on there full time, or if you can live with it riding very stiff empty, then this would be a super good idea.

3) Separating the lines - many here have suggested this and it is a super easy and quick test. Why not?

4) You mentioned in your original post that you have new tires and new air bags. Air pressure in both has been discussed. I don't recall seeing you talk about if the camper was new to you at the same time? As in, are there THREE new variables here? Did you drive the truck and camper together before the air bags? Before the new tires? In some threads out there in the wildernet, I hear that specfic tires can also cause sway. Yours look like an aggressive mud/snow tire? That is also worth considering.

5) You also mention in your first post that it sways on the highway. Under what conditions? Side wind? Changing lanes? Passing semis? How is it on twisty roads?

6) You have also now changed air pressure in both tires and bags. How would you describe the effect of each change?

7) Most importantly, Merry Christmas, and don't let this ruin your trip down south! It can, and will be resolved!

added air pressure in airbags or tires seems to make no difference, so it has to be the springs, I’m going to get 2 extra leafs, and try it with 10 LBS in the airbags, I’m also going to separate the airlines to compensate for extra weight on one side and avoid air going from one bag to the other, but my gut feeling is the extra leaf springs will take care of everything, I’m at or about 2200 lbs, camper is 1480 from factory, wife and I are 360 lbs, water is 150lbs, all our food and gear is at least 200 lbs, we are going to add 120 more weight when the new 46 gallon fuel tank is full, I’m going with 2 new leaf springs, I’m not getting new shocks, they only have 30 miles on them, I will re assess after the new leaf springs

 

[ottorogers]

I don't have airbags in my rig. Camper is mounted full time and I am not over GVRW. After re-reading this thread tonight, I am thinking you have some good options and experience to draw on from this forum:

1) The shocks are suspect, but from your pics look new. 5100 Bilsteins are what I use, and I think they are slightly under sized for my rig. Not enough to worry about though. You indicated you would be looking at getting those. Sounds like a good idea.

2) You looked at extra leafs... from a spring shop in Phoenix. Home is Sask. Can you wait until you are on your homeward leg and stop in Boise, ID? The folks at Springworks have a great rep. http://www.boisespringworks.com/ IF the camper is on there full time, or if you can live with it riding very stiff empty, then this would be a super good idea.

3) Separating the lines - many here have suggested this and it is a super easy and quick test. Why not?

4) You mentioned in your original post that you have new tires and new air bags. Air pressure in both has been discussed. I don't recall seeing you talk about if the camper was new to you at the same time? As in, are there THREE new variables here? Did you drive the truck and camper together before the air bags? Before the new tires? In some threads out there in the wildernet, I hear that specfic tires can also cause sway. Yours look like an aggressive mud/snow tire? That is also worth considering.

5) You also mention in your first post that it sways on the highway. Under what conditions? Side wind? Changing lanes? Passing semis? How is it on twisty roads?

6) You have also now changed air pressure in both tires and bags. How would you describe the effect of each change?

7) Most importantly, Merry Christmas, and don't let this ruin your trip down south! It can, and will be resolved!

twisty roads and changing lanes and wind, all the same, lots of swaying, a bit scary, springs should fix it, shocks and airbags and tires are all secondary to the foundation, which is springs

 

[MattC]

twisty roads and changing lanes and wind, all the same, lots of swaying, a bit scary, springs should fix it, shocks and airbags and tires are all secondary to the foundation, which is springs

Airbags are the same as springs.
they are both load supporting pieces of the suspension.

 

[So Cal Adventurer]

Airbags are the same as springs.
they are both load supporting pieces of the suspension.

Exactly. Shocks are not

 

[rruff]

I really like not having to mess with airbags and trying to figure out pressure etc. And the key to the functionality of the TRD Pro off road suspension is added down travel. Air bags are problematic when it comes to maintaining down travel.

Lastly, one other thing I have is beefed up shackles on the rear springs. The factory Tundra shackles apparently are junk and introduce a lot of flex. The shackles were made my a guy named Erik (Eric) that goes under the name coachbuilder. If you are interested I can dig out more specifics.

If you use airbags with daystar cradles, you maintain downtravel and articulation offroad.

Airbags are basically air springs, just a different way to accomplish the same thing. They are not inferior to additional leaf springs if the bags are working properly and you are using cradles. Their forte is adjustability for the load.

The Coachbuilder shackle guy is David Eckstrom. More important than the beefy shackle is the poly bushing on the lower pivot. The lower OEM bushing is solidly attached to both the leaf and the bolt, which causes it to wind up as the suspension moves. I don't think the shackle beefiness accomplishes anything actually.

 

[ottorogers]

What I am finding with all this talk about airbags and leaf springs and shocks, is one common thread, very few people agree on much, everybody’s experience is different, everybody’s weight in the back of their truck is different, my weight is about 500 pounds overweight, I cannot see how Springs will not solve my problem, of course shocks will make a difference, and airbags are a great helper to beefy leaf springs, my gut feeling is adding 2 extra leave springs will solve all my problems or at least 80 percent of them, I can fine-tune with shocks and airbags, I am not removing my airbags, I’m going to use them as a supplement to beefier springs, to me this makes the most logical sense, maybe I am dead wrong, but adding an extra two leafspring should compensate for my 500 pounds overweight

 

[rruff]

I cannot see how Springs will not solve my problem

If you separate the airlines on your bags, then the bags and springs will behave about the same. Adding leaf springs will just reduce the amount of air you put in the bags to get the same ride height. I wouldn't expect reduced sway with the added leafs, compared to separating your bags.

Separate your bags and try that. It's the cheap and easy fix, and may be the only thing you need. Shocks would be next.

If you haven't done it already, shove sideways rhythmically on the rear corner of your camper and get it resonating. See if something is loose.

 

[ottorogers]

If you separate the airlines on your bags, then the bags and springs will behave about the same. Adding leaf springs will just reduce the amount of air you put in the bags to get the same ride height. I wouldn't expect reduced sway with the added leafs, compared to separating your bags.

Separate your bags and try that. It's the cheap and easy fix, and may be the only thing you need. Shocks would be next.

If you haven't done it already, shove sideways rhythmically on the rear corner of your camper and get it resonating. See if something is loose.

i’m camped in a dirt area, not easy to crawl underneath the vehicle and change the airlines, I have some extra airline with me, but I don’t think I have enough to reroute both sides separately, I need to find more airline before I do that, removing the T connection is easy enough, but what about the extra length needed to where the gas cap is? I don’t have enough line extra

 

[ottorogers]

If you separate the airlines on your bags, then the bags and springs will behave about the same. Adding leaf springs will just reduce the amount of air you put in the bags to get the same ride height. I wouldn't expect reduced sway with the added leafs, compared to separating your bags.

Separate your bags and try that. It's the cheap and easy fix, and may be the only thing you need. Shocks would be next.

If you haven't done it already, shove sideways rhythmically on the rear corner of your camper and get it resonating. See if something is loose.

just looking underneath my truck and measuring, I can use the far side line, rerouted to the near side line, and use my extra line that I have for the far side, I brought the extra inflation nozzles with me, so I think I have everything I need, I just have to get to a clean concrete slab area to do the work, it’s not easy laying on the concrete looking up, it kills the neck, I might get the guys that install the 46 gallon gas tank to do it for me

 

[Vic Harder]

added air pressure in airbags or tires seems to make no difference, so it has to be the springs, I’m going to get 2 extra leafs, and try it with 10 LBS in the airbags, I’m also going to separate the airlines to compensate for extra weight on one side and avoid air going from one bag to the other, but my gut feeling is the extra leaf springs will take care of everything, I’m at or about 2200 lbs, camper is 1480 from factory, wife and I are 360 lbs, water is 150lbs, all our food and gear is at least 200 lbs, we are going to add 120 more weight when the new 46 gallon fuel tank is full, I’m going with 2 new leaf springs, I’m not getting new shocks, they only have 30 miles on them, I will re assess after the new leaf springs

30 miles? New shocks or new truck?

Anyway, sounds like you have a plan.

 

[idahoron]

Please listen to the guys including me that have told you to separate the air bags. The guy that told you that it was not a problem has literally never filled them separated. It only takes a puff of air to make a HUGE difference. I have filled mine with a bicycle air pump many times.
Separate the lines and put 20 in each side. Adjust your air in your D or E rated ties to 60 in the back 50 up front. Then go for a ride and take a pump to adjust the air bags.

 

[ottorogers]

Please listen to the guys including me that have told you to separate the air bags. The guy that told you that it was not a problem has literally never filled them separated. It only takes a puff of air to make a HUGE difference. I have filled mine with a bicycle air pump many times.
Separate the lines and put 20 in each side. Adjust your air in your D or E rated ties to 60 in the back 50 up front. Then go for a ride and take a pump to adjust the air bags.

i carry a good tire pressure no with me, I’m at 45 psi front and 55 in the rear, and 60 PSI in air bags, but tied together, as soon as I’m able I’ll separate air bags

 

[ottorogers]

Please listen to the guys including me that have told you to separate the air bags. The guy that told you that it was not a problem has literally never filled them separated. It only takes a puff of air to make a HUGE difference. I have filled mine with a bicycle air pump many times.
Separate the lines and put 20 in each side. Adjust your air in your D or E rated ties to 60 in the back 50 up front. Then go for a ride and take a pump to adjust the air bags.

i am going to do the air bag separation before I do anything else, sounds like very good advise, and I really appreciate everyone’s opinion