Are you still on the fence...about adding solar?

[RC Pilot Jim]

I don't recall (nor can I confirm) if I ever reported on this trip. If I did then I apologize . If not .....

3 – week Oregon Trip 2014

Distance covered 2,408 miles. Cities visited: Medford. Bend (now I know reason MarkBC lives there), Sisters, Mt Washington Nat Forest, Eugene then the coast from Florence to Brookings and on into Calif down 101. Spent 9 nights camping, 6 with friends, 2 motels.

Field Report starts on the coast 8 miles south Florence
Camped at Siltcoos National Forrest…..Awoke to rain. Decided to stay a second day because didn’t want to lower the roof on wet canvass liner. Cooked inside all day….first time I have cooked in the rain.

Dry Camping more than one day had me worrying about the battery , because if the voltage drops below 12 volts the truck separator will prevent connecting to the truck alternator and I will need to run “shell-shore power” to charge battery sufficiently to get the separator to re-connect.

I chose to leave the portable solar panel at home because I did not plan on being off 110 volts or the truck alternator more than 17 hours per day.

Now I am camping for two days… (Best laid plans)
Recorded (conditions) Temp cool – low 70’s during day.Mid 50’s at night. Slept with top sheet, blanket and sleeping bag as a comforter.
Day 2
Engine off overnight - 17 hours – low reading 12.3 volts. Run engine one hour (6: am) = Voltage 12.9
Engine off 12 hours – low reading 12.2 volts. Run engine one hour (6m) = Voltage 12.9
Day 3 morning
Engine off 13 hours – low reading 12.1 volts. Run engine one hour (6am) = voltage 12.9

So engine alternator does charge the battery …..just won’t top it off

If I had a solar panel mounted on the roof, even on a gray day, panel would have maintained 12.9 volts during light hours. I proved my theory in April while attending the FWC factory rally as we camped in a cloud for 3 days – rainy - drizzly weather. Deployed panel maintained voltage 12.9 volts during day.


My friend in Roseburg is an electrician and gave me a "6 year olds" explanation of how the separator works. “Think of charging volts as “water” flowing through a hose. Resistance is a clamp on the hose. The “Separator” joins both batteries when the engine is started – running the fridge from the alternator and flowing volts (water) to the battery(s). As the camper battery reaches full the “separator” through its programming increases the “resistance” (clamping pressure) and reduces the flow of volts (water) to battery.

“Separator” monitors the battery continuing to increase/or decrease the flow (voltage) as required. .

Problem with the “separator” is when battery voltage drops below 12 volts. Than the “separator” disconnects the camper battery to PROTECT the starting battery. Disconnecting means the Fridge is now drawing current from the camper battery. (Compressor fridge 2.5 to 5 amps per hour. 3-way Fridge 11.8 amps per hour)

That is reason camper (owner) has to plug the battery into “IOTA” 110 volt shore power, or solar panel, or a stand-a-lone battery charger.

That is also the reason I have a “ LARGE RED DIGITAL VOLTMETER”…to monitor when I need to run the truck motor if I don’t have my portable solar panel with me. And no 110 volt electricity to run my “shell-shore power”.

 

[Squatch]

My biggest on the fence issue was how I was going to go about it. After the recent purchase of a truck fridge and a coming trip of a week or 2 at the beach with little driving of the truck and no access to shore power I plunged. I just bought a cheap 160 watt panel for the roof. I bought 2) 60 watt panels to make a portable unit.

I decided why do this twice? I went ahead and just ordered the whole Bogart 2030 system with the Trimetric monitor. I still need some parts and a battery. But when done hopefully the system will be overkill for my needs and run by itself with the fridge on for as long as I like without shore power or running the truck.

I'm excited to get this stuff hooked up and running.

A lot of back country trips here in the east will require some driving due to parking in heavy woods.

Solar just makes too much sense not to experiment with it. if this goes well then maybe the house will come next.

 

[K7MDL]

The description of the separator is not too far off but for one major point :

... "As the camper battery reaches full the “separator” through its programming increases the “resistance” (clamping pressure) and reduces the flow of volts (water) to battery.

“Separator” monitors the battery continuing to increase/or decrease the flow (voltage) as required." ...

The separator is just a relay contact. It is a very low resistance fixed value so performs no significant function to lower or raise the "flow". The change in current flow and thus voltage drop is a function of the state of charge of the batteries and the difference in voltage between them. The separator is a spectator in this regard. The wire run + separator contact resistance is fixed. I=E/R. If R is fixed, then current and voltage change in direct proportion to each other. As the battery charges, the voltage rises (insert battery chemistry theory here) and current flow will decrease causing less voltage drop across your wiring, allowing the battery voltage to creep up to its full charge voltage after a length of time.

​The separator does what you need except for one sore spot, this particular one won't connect a discharged battery to charged battery. It should keep them separated while the starter battery is low or not charging, but when it is back up to snuff, it needs to reconnect as long as the camper battery is not too low (failed). Most other brands I am familiar with will reconnect as we want them to.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Squatch, your going to love your new solar system and Trimetric. 2 weeks of traveling will have you really happy you added the Trimetric.

Thanks "K7" for your input. I have considered changing out the separator for something more efficient and will do that when it fails. Meantime the 150 watt roof panel is having no problems running the fridge and charging the battery when parked hiking or visiting museums.

 

[DrJ]

Jim,
Glad to hear the 150 watt panel is working out better for you. I think that's a perfect amount of solar for you and what you run.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Dr. J I'm glad I followed yours and Harv's "photohc"'s advice, and I'm glad I changed (Page 12 "Build" post)
roof connectors like Harv did as the connection was flakey too.

We live in a manufactured home park. The reflection off my neighbors roof easily keeps the battery charged on sunny days. It seems to be more efficient then the old "flexible".

 

[Wallowa]

I will try to sneak in a Bozo question, or three. 'Trimetric' ; a brand name or a type of monitor? What does FWC currently use? Pros and Cons? And what would it take to upgrade the monitor in my '16 Hawk ?

I puzzle over the idiot lights and amp/amp-hr/volt readings trying to decipher if our batteries are in need of more juice than the 160w solar is providing...

If there is a thread on this please point me to it and thanks!

Phil

 

[Stalking Light]

Trimetric is a monitor brand name. What you are probably thinking of as a monitor is your solar controller and it is showing the amps going from the panel to the battery but not the amps being used by your connected devices. For example, when my solar is producing 5 amps and my fridge is drawing 6 amps the controller will show the 5 while the Trimetric shows -1.

 

[sportsman]

Trimetric is a monitor brand name. What you are probably thinking of as a monitor is your solar controller and it is showing the amps going from the panel to the battery but not the amps being used by your connected devices. For example, when my solar is producing 5 amps and my fridge is drawing 6 amps the controller will show the 5 while the Trimetric shows -1.

Would the Trimetrtic 2030Rv work with the Zamp Solar Controller installed by FWC? I have a 2030 sitting around, but I'm not sure if I also need the trimetric solar.

thanks

scott

 

[Stalking Light]

Yes, I installed my Trimetric with my Zamp controller. The only reason to replace the factory Zamp controller is if you add more solar than it can handle. My FWC came with a 15 amp controller and I had to go to a 30 amp when I added another panel but that had nothing to do with the Trimetric. I think the default controller that FWC installs now is 30 amps.

 

[sportsman]

Yes, I installed my Trimetric with my Zamp controller. The only reason to replace the factory Zamp controller is if you add more solar than it can handle. My FWC came with a 15 amp controller and I had to go to a 30 amp when I added another panel but that had nothing to do with the Trimetric. I think the default controller that FWC installs now is 30 amps.

Thanks, and yes the Zamp controller is 30 amps

 

[Wallowa]

SL,

How much of a chore to add the Trimetric to my Hawk? To say that I am electronically challenged is an understatement.

What is the value of knowing that the amps being used at that moment are below the charging rate? Or does the Trimetric give you the net loss or gain over a period of time? Trying to understand how I could use the data from a Trimetric to optimize my battery power over time to lengthen the time off the grid.

Thanks,

Phil

 

[Squatch]

For those not familiar and are interested here is the site for Bogart engineering.
http://www.bogartengineering.com/

Here is the handybob site. Lot's of good info both places.
https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

I'm looking forward to digging into this stuff. For me the trimetric was a necessary. Without the data it provides you are often shooting in the dark with this stuff. I have a background in low voltage systems. Recently retired technician. This will give me a chance to play again.

 

[Squatch]

Phil the trimetric and related charge controller(SC2030) will allow you to set the system to charge your battery(s) exactly the way they want to be charged. Different types like different charging parameters. It will show you state of charge at any given time. How much your fridge drew down the battery overnight and how much has already been recovered this morning since the sun came up. It will tell you how many amps the panels are providing real time. And how many amps you are drawing real time from the battery. It can be set to log data for 5 days. It will also show you the voltage real time on the truck battery.

The monitor itself connects with a phone cord. I intend to run one to the truck cab and one to the front of my cabinet. I'll mount the monitor with Velcro and then I can move it from the truck cab to the camper as desired.

Edit to correct the above. TheTtrimetric connects with a phone cord and a few other small wires depending on what you are monitoring. Just got mine and I'm actually reading the manuals now.

 

[Stalking Light]

The Trimetric seemed easy to set up to me but the instructions were a tad confusing and I had to read over them several times before things became clear. Since in the SE muggy Summer's my fridge runs most of the time I'm mostly interested to see if my battery is charging in hazy sunlight and it tells me that so I haven't dug much deeper to see what else I can learn from it.

 

[Wallowa]

Phil the trimetric and related charge controller will allow you to set the system to charge your battery(s) exactly the way they want to be charged. Different types like different charging parameters. It will show you state of charge at any given time. How much your fridge drew down the battery overnight and how much has already been recovered this morning since the sun came up. It will tell you how many amps the panels are providing real time. And how many amps you are drawing real time from the battery. It can be set to log data for 5 days. It will also show you the voltage real time on the truck battery.

The monitor itself connects with a phone cord. I intend to run one to the truck cab and one to the front of my cabinet. I'll mount the monitor with Velcro and then I can move it from the truck cab to the camper as desired.

Great info and thanks. Question: You said: "Trimetric and related charge controller". Does this mean in my case a Trimetric and the existing Zamp controller ? Phone cord; attached to Trimetric and what?

Thanks...may be on my shopping list.

Phil

 

[Stalking Light]

The Trimetric monitor alone can provide all the data but no control over charging unless you also have the Trimetric charge controller. There is no connection between the Trimetric monitor and Zamp controller.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Phil and "Stalking"

We currently use a MorningStar SunSaver 10L (10 amp) solar controller and the Trimetric.(Bogart Engineering) battery monitor.

10L vs. 20L
We once had the 20 L , had problems with it then went back to the 10L that I happened to have. The 150 watt Rigid panel puts out 9.1 amps at 12 noon June 22nd (longest day of the year) with the battery discharged to 70%. Normally the daily discharge range is - sunset 100% - sunrise 84%. To get the battery down to 70% I ran the fridge 52 hours with the solar panel covered with a blanket.

In the winter roof panel produces about 6 amps which is enough to run our fridge and charge the battery. If I add the 60 watt portable (3.5 amps) The total is still under 10 amps.

Like "stalking" we don't use all the features the unit will do. We just want to know the digital amp reading in and out and percentage of full.

I too am electricaly challenged. I read the Trimetric install information 8 or 10 times ...Then finally took it to a local mobile electronic shop (installs car alarms, etc) paid the installer $75.00 and let them install it. Once seeing everything installed, I could easily do-it-myself IF I didn't have a damaged lower back.

For more info on the Trimetric, click on my "Build" link and scroll down to the "battery monitor" section. There are three links by Dr J and myself to Posts on this subject.

 

[Stalking Light]

To do the install you also need a shunt and cable. I used a 500a shunt on mine. I also got the Bogart 4 wire cable and just used two runs of it to get the required 5 wires to go from the shunt to the meter. You'll also need a short (about 6") battery cable to connect the other side of the shunt back to the battery.

That said, $75 to have it installed is probably a good investment if you aren't comfortable with the wiring diagram.

 

[Squatch]

Today I received 3 solar panels and all my Bogart stuff. I'm stoked.