Bear Question

[Sam]

I recently camped just outside Yellowstone, and the campground host said that that most of the campgrounds in the area do not allow soft sided campers. Don't know if he's full of it or not, just thought I would share.

 

[craig333]

I can't hardly reach up that high. Can a bear? And if it did could it get inside that way? Only bear incident I saw was in Yosemite. It got inside a car like it was nothing.

 

[Brian]

Bear...

Jay....I had not heard that about Denali but it may well be true. I know that there have been several bear attacks on people there since I worked there.

One thing that I have been thinking about since I posted last about bears is the huge increase in population and how the bear may well be feeling that in the more popular places. I know that last time I went through Yellowstone in the summer it was packed.

I must admit that most of my experiences in bear country was more than 15 years ago and that is a long time in terms of wild animal behavior. As we continue to encroach on habitat and increase our presence there will very likely be consequences in animal behavior. I was taught, like Simimike, from my earliest Boy Scout days to remember that I am the intruder in bear country and act accordingly. As Brett13 does, if it makes me feel more comfortable, a gun and spray aren't an unreasonable thing to have in the camper.

That does bring up another thought and there are those here with far more experience than I, however when I was required to carry a weapon on the job as a jeweler in somewhat remote Alaska, it was suggested by a law enforcement ranger friend that I read Ayoob's book on Using Deadly Force...I am not sure of the title but it can be googled....in regards to the reality of defending myself with a deadly weapon. Once I read it I could not wait to get rid of the damn thing. Now I travel so much south of the border where it is illegal to carry a gun, I am used to using common sense and reasonable caution to stay clear of trouble. Bear spray is considered an illegal weapon some places also...Canada I believe but am not sure. Point being if you cross borders your ability to rely on weapons decreases. That said, I am always less afraid of incidents in other countries than here at home. We are one of the most violent nations on earth in regards to violent crime.
Brian

 

[chnlisle]

Brian,

I too learned in scouting that I'm in their house and should treat it as such but you're right tours, vans, campers, and weekenders pack Jellystone and every other easily reached area. Denali is different but it has gotten much more croweded over the 5 times I've been there.

About guns. I have never owned one and after Viet Nam really dont want one. I live in a town (Tucson) where its legal to carry a side arm as long as its exposed but we've always had dogs and backdoors and a baseball bat next to the bed so I feel safe. I would rather flee than fight and I dont own anything worth killing for. I dont mean to start a fight here and I respect others views and rights. I do know the arguement about defending loved ones and would certainly do so if I had to but I see no need for me as an individual to beg the issue.

We also go to Mexico a lot and ....Well you said it best.

Back to bears, the continual encroachment will produce some tragic results both in terms of people and the bears. Its inevitable.

 

[captainkettel]

The book Brian is referring to is by Massad Ayoob. The book is "In The Gravest Extreme." A very good book on your right to protect your castle (FWC). Don't be fooled...Bears don't know when your packin'!

 

[kcowyo]

I recently camped just outside Yellowstone, and the campground host said that that most of the campgrounds in the area do not allow soft sided campers. Don't know if he's full of it or not, just thought I would share.

True story.

In several of the 'high bear traffic" areas of the park they strongly discourage soft sided campers. Technically it's not illegal to camp in those spots, just discouraged due to bear encounters.

 

[DLN]

Bear Boxes

Bear Boxes have become very common in organized campgrounds in Northern & Central California. All State Parks and Forest Service campgrounds we've been to in the last maybe 5-7 years have had them. Mammoth, Lake Tahoe Basin, Lakes Basin, and even obscure camps at the end of 20 miles of rough dirt road. We've always stored what we could in them, but as was pointed out earlier in the thread it's not practical to put everything in the box. We've yet to have any bear problems. They do ravage the random garbage can in our neighborhood though.

 

[Brian]

Bears and guns...

I too have no intention of ruffling any feathers regarding guns. It is a very complex issue and I respect the right to own and/or carry one even though my choice today is not to.

I do know that in the area that I was most likely to encounter a grizzly bear, Denali Nat'l. Park, it is illegal to carry or pack a loaded gun as it is in any National Park. Did I have one in my pack when I went out hiking...you guess. But I will admit to having many laughs over how if it is a handgun, you carry it to shoot your hiking partner in the knee so you can get away. I honestly believe a handgun in bear country is merely a psychological crutch. If you feel you need protection, carry a 12 Ga. pump shotgun with alternating buckshot and slugs. That is the gun of choice by rangers and biologists in the field. Sometimes they will carry a large bore longarm of their choice.

If you believe Andy Russell's (Grizzly Country) views on Grizzly bears, they can sense when you are carrying a gun and will act aggresively as if threatened. Your call.

Jay, Welcome home! That goes for any other vets out there as well. I too am a Vietnam combat vet.
Brian in NM

 

[brett13]

I will admit to having many laughs over how if it is a handgun, you carry it to shoot your hiking partner in the knee so you can get away.

As a bear approached a pair of hikers, one hiker stopped to change out of boots into sneakers:
"What are you doing? You can't out run a bear!"
"Don't need to; I just need to out run you"

I honestly believe a handgun in bear country is merely a psychological crutch.
I agree; especially in a pack where you can't get to it in time.

Now, should we start worrying/debating mountain lions too? Just kidding. I do find those marmots particularly threatening though.

 

[Brian]

Bears....

Ahh Brett13, beware the pesky marmot and in this country the crazed Kangaroo Rat. That is the advantage of the FWC/ATC....they leave you alone!

Funny story: Several of us rode out to Arkansas last summer for the national rally of the USCA , a sidecar club I belong to (Texas/Oklahoma/Arkansas in the summer...what a foolish thing to do!). We camped all the way out, there and back as we do. I was carrying a hardsided, soft-topped cooler with a lot of our food in it in my sidecar and at night I would snap the naughahyde tonneau cover over it all and worry about mice getting into it. Many years since I have camped in areas with very many other pesky critters like the south and east has. I remember the pesky porkies in the northeast in my younger backpacking days but it has been a very long time since I gave it a thought......well...I awoke and climbed out of the tent to a destroyed tonneau cover, ripped apart cooler and almost no food left.....and the evidence of lots of little raccoon prints in the dirt and on the hack. So, every camp from there on the food went into a "bear/coon bag" and hung up between two trees. Fixed that problem....and I was still unable to win the hardship award at the rally due someone else's vehicle breakdown...what a rip!
Brian in NM

 

[chnlisle]

Brian, thanks brother back atcha.

I see your next door. We moved to AZ in June. Other than traveling and the Army I've never lived out side CA. Pam lived all over Mexico and Central America but I'm an old "surfer dude" from SoCal. Long boards and old guys rule!!!

We love the southewest so this was an easy transition and we love it. Where are you in NM? We are looking at some acreage on the Gila just outside of Glennwood.

As I write this I'm looking out at the unfenced part of the acre at a curious coyote. He's no doubt thinking of our chug, Rambo The Wonder Dog, as a snack. India my boxer wants out but I dont think so. Those boys have friends and I'm sure long memories. Its the first coyote siting on the property since we moved in.

 

[Brian]

Jay,
Thanks, bro. Good to have you in the neighborhood. My wife grew up as a youngun in the "Valley" in Chatsworth but left as soon as she could get a job in Yellowstone Park. I have lived all over the states and basically grew up on the road. We moved something like 6 times in a 5 year period....now here to stay but I have friends who refuse to put our address in ink in their address book. It was a difficult effort to break the Alaska attachment and move down here.

We now live on the Rio Grande in Truth or Consequences, NM right in the downtown "bathhouse district"...Tor C is built over a hotspring and there are a number of spas downtown mostly built in the 30's. We have about a third of an acre here with a 110 degree well and tub as the main draw for us.

Next month we will do some looking in northcentral Washington state for a piece of semi-remote land to have a camp away from here in the summer and be closer to my kids and grandkids...they live in Bremerton and Port Townsend at the moment.

Sometime around the 15th of August I will head over with the camper to ATC to get a new sideliner installed and a new awning and wind my way up to the northwest for a couple of weeks. I will hang with my boys and check out my new grandson before meeting and picking up my wife when she gets off her fire job in Missoula, MT. She is currently working on a fire out of Santa Maria, CA and will take a break of a few days before flying to Missoula. Busy summer.

I know the area you are speaking of on the Gila and it is ever so nice. There are some nice hotsprings over in that area as well. I hope it works out for you.

Keep me posted and if you are over this way maybe we can meet up.
Brian

 

[Blazer]

Brian,

Your wife must be working the Zaca Fire in Los Padres National Forest, E of Santa Ynez and Noth of Santa Barbara... I can see the smoke from Lompoc, about 30 miles away... We might need her a while longer...

Art
'86 Blazer

 

[Brian]

Fire...

Art....
You are right....she is working out of the airport in Santa Maria, coordinating the dispatch center there....don't worry, someone will be ordered to fill in that spot when she leaves.....I think they expect that fire to burn well into fall, if not the winter. She is at the end of her two week deployment and needs the time off. She gets pretty fried after 14 days of 14-15 hour days. She will take 9 days off this time for some personal stuff she needs to do. They do want her back after her deployment to Montana however she may be reaching the end of the 15 weeks she works a year....I am not sure.
Brian

 

[chnlisle]

Brian,
She has an important job I admire her. Before we moved from Oxnard we did a lot of camping the Padres.

I got this latest FWC in Washington. Actually I seem to go up there for all my FWCs. The privious one was on Lopez Island. Anyway I am always amazed at how much land is available when you go 20 miles or so east of the 10. Too wet up there for me but it is beautiful. I was at Lewis for a bit and did quite a lot of exploring.

 

[Brian]

Wa...

Jay,
Interesting that you find your campers up north.

I lived in Seattle from 5 yrs old til 14 with summers spent on the east coast from 11 til 14. Those train trips round trip across the US every year at that age by myself were golden years for me. I LOVE the train.

We will be looking for land east of the Cascades...a lot drier and quite cheap yet. I am a Canada-phile if there is such a word and really love the BC lake country. I have belonged to the Bigfoot Sidecar Club for years and often ride up there to see those folks at their rally. They are based in Langely, BC.

Kit told me that CDF is chafing at the bit to get in on the fire but it is a federal fire, still in the forest and not their jurisdiction. They have huge resources stockpiled at the Fairgrounds in Santa Barbara in case the fire pops over the ridge and heads for town. Big drama! With all that money and power living there they don't want to screw up! CDF is a pretty gungho corps and they are good at what they do.....they get some serious fires.
Brian

 

[camelracer]

It's been a mess here with all the ash falling out of the sky. Friday was the worst. It was almost like it was snowing. The truck/camper are a real mess. The last few days the winds have shifted and the fire is headed east towards Ojai and Ventura. It may turn towards us again tomorrow.

There are jurisdictional problems between the county, CDF and the forest service. I hope they can get their act together. One of the problems they all face is that the fire is now buring in the wilderness area and there's no access. Being a 4x4 guy I'm not a big fan of the wilderness designation but I still hate to see it burn even if it's off limits to me.

For those of you familiar with the area they have wrapped the Cold Springs Tavern with fire resistant aluminum foil. I hope the fire doesn't get that far but you can't take chances with a great watering hole like that.

 

[John D]

Having camped in Denali National Park only a few short weeks ago, I feel obliged to report no restrictions on FWCs where I was camping. I noted two other FWCs camping in Denali the same time I was there. A couple of specific campgrounds are restricted.

On observing one particularly large bear nearby from the safety of a bus, I have no doubt about the power and potential danger of those animals. Common sense would dictate staying more than a quarter mile from any bear.

I was concerned about bears only a few times, once when we two hiked alone in remote bear country and two other times camping alone when our flashlight reflected glowing eyes in the dark outside the fire light. Once we saw a sign, “BEAR IN CAMPGROUND.” You guessed it, we chose not to camp there.

In Yellowstone, I had a discussion with a park ranger about a bear that had mauled a photographer earlier this season. The park ranger was not sympathetic to the plight of the photographer who had been previously ticked for approaching bears. He continued his risky tack and eventually paid a heavy price. An investigation determined the photographer was at fault and the bear was not put down.

Don’t take a pistol into Canada. They are not permitted. Our 12 gauge Remington model 1100 with a fully rifled barrel was fine. A 60 day permit to carry it in our camper cost $25 and the Canadian authorities gave us no problems about it. As one very experienced with firearms I want to emphasize that a pistol probably will not stop a bear. If one is qualified to carry a firearm, make it be a 12 gauge shotgun or a heavy rifle, at least a .45-70 or modern magnum. If you could not hit a moving bear with a rifle, do not carry a firearm. The exercise of common sense will keep you safer from bears than will a firearm.

 

[brett13]

John D,

Sounds exciting. Don't suppose you have pics of these bears eh? Would love to see 'em. So you really saw eyes outside the fire? What was your next move (I can only guess)?

 

[Brian]

Bears...

John,
Thanks for the report on Denali. Good to hear. As to the photographer in Yellowstone, I remember one day in Denali I was driving my shop rig into headquarters from Toklat for parts and I happened upon a tourist with a little disposable camera (this between Labor Day and when we closed the road after Polychrome Pass snows in) and he was closer to a sow and last years cub than he was to his car. I stopped to let him know how fast they were but as a mechanic I had no authority to press the issue. I think he got away with it but the problem there is that the inland grizzlies which are a way smaller animal than the coastals due to eating differently, aren't mesmerized by tons of salmon to eat. They have a sparser diet of berries, roots and small animals with the occasional carrion or caribou kill. I have fished in rivers right amongst the bears in Haines and the only time they might pay you any attention is if you are toting around a couple of nice juicy, fresh fish and they think taking yours would be easier than catching their own. If you are ever by here I have albums of photos from those days and many, many stories of wildlife adventures. I worked 22 years there and the bulk of it was for public lands or US Fish and Wildlife.
Brian