Electrical confusion...

[Ethergore]

So DonC let me borrow the old failed panels so I could do some destructive testing. Here are some pictures of what the panel looks like.

Here is the top popped off: https://goo.gl/photos/qzJpSh21D5ccjFqG8
The wires are soldered inside her to a prong that sticks up from the laminated panel. Notice its completely covered with silicone to eliminate the chance of oxidation of the joints. Good.

Here is what the joints look like with the silicone dug out: https://goo.gl/photos/UBgWP6Uz7BVPengy8
I couldn't get it all the way out but if you look close you can see how it joins together.

Next I lifted up the box containing these joints: https://goo.gl/photos/qkXbQLPTm1UBCqH49
Look close and you can see where the connection enters the box from the laminated panel.

Here they are again with the box removed: https://goo.gl/photos/KM4n2ttcqpj1RnBa8

So I did some testing thinking the problem would surely be in this box since everything else is completely sealed. I took my multimeter and found that I still had good conductivity from the probe all the way to the tip of the MC4 connector. This ruled out what I thought would be the cause of the failure ie bad connectivity from breakdown of the connection.

The panel happened to be ripped on the back from where DonC took it off the roof: https://goo.gl/photos/bVaHh5qrovJsXSrFA
I checked continuity from this point to the lead on the same side which happened to be the positive lead. I had continuity here but none to the negative lead.

So far my assumption is that one of these points broke or melted somehow, which I doubt, or a solar cell itself went bad (more likely). If that is the case I am not sure how the new panels with new top pieces are going to solve our problems as it seems to be in the laminated portion. To be confident these problems are addressed by Renogy, I would want to hear that a change took place in the laminated panel itself.

I plan to further deconstruct this panel but it is very difficult to separate the panel to expose the insides. Any ideas on more testing I should do would be appreciated. I'm not an expert but can figure out if there is a complete circuit or not.

What do you guys think?

 

[DonC]

I think Ethergore is having fun!

I wonder if Renogy would check this thread out if someone sent them a link?

I think they have a problem. Mounting with adhesive is a method they recommend but then there are downstream problems when there are failures . A hassle to remove, it does ding up our roofs, if you didn't keep the boxes, and who does, its a pain to ship, etc.

I will look at alternatives if I have another failure.

 

[camelracer]

camelracer - bad news! how old was yours? does it have long or short leads? Mine were a Dec 2014 purchase with long leads.
I wonder how many generations of panels there are. I know there are at least two - there was a change from my Dec purchase to the two I just received.

Don,
I purchased this panel in march of '14 and the leads were about 2 foot. I believe this was a bastard panel because there were air pockets between the top layer and the cells and there were no grommets installed. I had driven 3 hours to pick it up and needed it for Baja ASAP so I accepted it with the salesman's assurance that it would be OK and all their current stock were the same. It worked fine until my last trip. The replacement panel is now on the way.

 

[DonC]

You definitely have the older panel, and your description sounds apt. I am traveling now but will post pictures of the panel picked up at Renogy last week, which I assume is the latest generation.

 

[camelracer]

New panel arrived today and it works great.

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

I sent Renogy a copy of this post and asked them to respond with a statement for all of us.
I emailed it to Customer Service. If I don't get a response I will follow-up with a letter to the Vice- President of Sales.

 

[alano]

I'm very interested in hearing their take on all this.

Thanks Jim for doing this and riding herd on the myriad threads regarding this issue.

Alan

 

[RC Pilot Jim]

Alan,

I read your comment on the "Ultimate bendable solar panel" in the "Truck Campers" folder then called Renogy to ask for reason they are now suggesting the panel be raised half inch to allow for air-flow.

Copying their response here for those that might have missed the other reply.



Statement:
"Please try to mount the panel so that there is minimal direct contact between the panel and the surface it is to be mounted to, to avoid hot spots.
It is recommended that there be at least a half inch of space between the solar panel and the surface to allow for air circulation, if the application allows for this."

Renogy tech answers to above questions and a few more

1. Hot Spots cause a voltage drop. The operating voltage spec is 17.7 . Hot spot will drop it to 15 - 16 volts.
2. The warranty is in affect if the panel is glued onto the roof.
3. Renogy manufactures the bendable panel
4. To date they have experienced less than a 5% failure rate
5. To date they don't know reason the panels failed - Testing is still going on.

 

[alano]

Thanks, Jim.

 

[Squatch]

I saw a response from Renology on a sellers site to a mounting question. They said do not glue just use industrialized Velcro. Not sure of the date of the posting.

 

[DonC]

Well, another work trip got in the way of my vacation so I am just now getting ready to install the two new panels picked up directly from Renogy. I'm going to install tomorrow so did a quick test of them today. I laid each of the two new ones on top of the remaining panel to test all in exactly the same location/angle. Tested each one individually with a short extension (borrowed from Ethergore) directly into the roof plug. Test was done around 945 am.

New panel 1 = 3.7 amps flat, 4.4 amps pointed toward sun
New panel 2 = 4.0 amps flat, 5.4 amps pointed toward sun
Panel still on truck that I thought was good = .1 amp = crap!

So, will remove the remaining panel and return to Renogy. 200W should be good for this trip mid summer in good weather, but another frustration and more work...

 

[DonC]

just spent 20 minutes doing more tests with mid day sun

new panel 1 = 2.2 amps
new panel 2 = 6.0 amps
panel still on truck = 0 amps

tested each panel 3 times

will test again later, but it looks like I might have a bad new panel...

 

[brianjwilson]

Well that is discouraging.

 

[Stalking Light]

I've been thinking about a second panel, but think I'll stick to the kind FWC installed. They re heavier but I'm going to bump up my gas struts to 30# anyway. I wonder if Renology just had a bad batch and they are all showing up at once.

 

[rotti]

I was debating these glue on panels earlier but didn't like the idea of munging up my brand new roof. Went with the Renology 100w folding suitcase panel with good results. More labor intensive but after wading through this thread I'm glad I did.

Hope you can find a solution....must be beyond frustrating.

 

[DonC]

3rd testing session of the day.
Dec vintage panel that we thought was good is still dead. I don't know why I expected it to change from this am!
One of the new panels is consistently 2 - 3 amps less than the other new panel.

I will take time off work on Monday to go to Renogy and will report back. Vacation starts Fri so I need to get this figured and and everything installed.

 

[alano]

Man, that sucks. Hope things work out.

Alan

 

[EDR]

Rotti,
I see the spray bottle in your picture and I didn't think you would be spraying the weeds, so I assume it's a improvised solar shower?
If it is, how is it working out?

 

[rotti]

Rotti,
I see the spray bottle in your picture and I didn't think you would be spraying the weeds, so I assume it's a improvised solar shower?
If it is, how is it working out?

Purchased from here: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/shower/
Works great....if there is a lack of solar I just supplement with hot water from the stove.

 

[DonC]

Just got back from Renogy. The remaining 3rd panel from my purchase in Dec was confirmed to be dead. The tech that did the testing was the same that my son met with several weeks ago. He remembers testing the panel and that it was ok at that time. So, 100% failure rate for the 3 panels purchased in Dec.

They replaced the panel with no issue, even though it was still glued to the camper. The tech suggested several times that I go with rigid panels because they are experiencing a higher than expected failure rate on the flexibles. This will be my last install of Renogy flexibles, and perhaps Renogy panels. Great customer service does not make up for poor quality products.

He did confirm that the panels are made in China, by a company owned by Renogy.

As I was pulling out of the Renogy store, going about 15 mph, I heard a loud pop. I stopped and discovered the passenger side front turnbuckle bolt snapped. Drove home at 50 mph... I have asked FWC several times in the past the max speed if a turnbuckle is broken and they have never responded.

Not my day