Fly Fishing Oregon & Idaho Wilderness - August 2023

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Nice "cuts".Thanks for sharing.
Frank

 

[goinoregon]

wow, those are nice feeesh. it seems remarkable that they can get that size, in a high lake like that.
must be a sasquatch up there feeding them.

 

[Vic Harder]

Wow, awesome fishing. Love those “hamburgers”. I really wonder how that outhouse door got locked??? ;-)

 

[AWG_Pics]

wow, those are nice feeesh. it seems remarkable that they can get that size, in a high lake like that.
must be a sasquatch up there feeding them.

They are planted then allowed to eat everything they can for a couple of years. The fish grow to a nice size but after another year or so you have skinny fish with big heads due to starvation. A year or so later there are no fish. After a few years when food builds up again another batch will be planted to start the cycle again. Western state F&G folks have been doing this cycle in high mountain lakes for 50 or more years. No harm, no foul. Just a service to support sport fisheries. In the early days the hatchery raised fish were carried up by horse/mule packtrains in barrels. Later aerial drops of fish became the norm. Maybe still are doing that.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

They are planted then allowed to eat everything they can for a couple of years. The fish grow to a nice size but after another year or so you have skinny fish with big heads due to starvation. A year or so later there are no fish. After a few years when food builds up again another batch will be planted to start the cycle again. Western state F&G folks have been doing this cycle in high mountain lakes for 50 or more years. No harm, no foul. Just a service to support sport fisheries. In the early days the hatchery raised fish were carried up by horse/mule packtrains in barrels. Later aerial drops of fish became the norm. Maybe still are doing that.

Off topic apologies in advance… There’s a great story told by the late John Day, a wealthy adventurer from So Oregon, who as a college student backpacked trout from the Crater Lake rim down to Cleatwood Cove to stock the lake. At the top, he was asked by a well dressed matronly looking woman what he was transporting. His reply was “Why the dye, Mam. You don’t think the lake gets that blue by itself, do you?”

At various times, John held records like the fastest time from Medford to Portland on a bicycle, skiing the 33 miles around the Crater Lake rim in 4 or 5 hours. He was also air evacuated, due to a broken leg, from high on Denali.

 

[AWG_Pics]

Great story Steve!

 

[ski3pin]

They are planted then allowed to eat everything they can for a couple of years. The fish grow to a nice size but after another year or so you have skinny fish with big heads due to starvation. A year or so later there are no fish. After a few years when food builds up again another batch will be planted to start the cycle again. Western state F&G folks have been doing this cycle in high mountain lakes for 50 or more years. No harm, no foul. Just a service to support sport fisheries. In the early days the hatchery raised fish were carried up by horse/mule packtrains in barrels. Later aerial drops of fish became the norm. Maybe still are doing that.

Please allow me to disagree somewhat with this. Yes, many times in years past, this would occur. In many of the past years I've seen the number of planted fish reduced to match the food supply. The unnamed lake mentioned in my story, has an abundant food supply that is growing big cutthroat trout. Success with put and grow trout stocking is also dependent on the species planted. In the early 1900's many fishless high country lakes in the West were stocked with non-native brook trout from eastern North America- actually a char, Salvelinus fontinalis. These fish can reproduce in lakes. Our native western trout species- genus Oncorhynchus - need suitable gravels in flowing streams to reproduce. Without suitable spawning grounds, such as at most high country lakes, cutthroat trout do not naturally spawn and replace the population, but die off after 7 or 8 years, a normal lifespan. Brook trout will reproduce and overpopulate a lake and consume all the food and are the skinny fish with big heads you describe. Once in a lake, Brook trout are near impossible to remove or eliminate. I am not a fan of Brook Trout. Our state's Department of Fish and Wildlife has been working on clever ways of ridding high country lakes of Brook Trout.

 

[craig333]

They are pretty tasty!

 

[AWG_Pics]

Please allow me to disagree somewhat with this. Yes, many times in years past, this would occur. In many of the past years I've seen the number of planted fish reduced to match the food supply. The unnamed lake mentioned in my story, has an abundant food supply that is growing big cutthroat trout. Success with put and grow trout stocking is also dependent on the species planted. In the early 1900's many fishless high country lakes in the West were stocked with non-native brook trout from eastern North America- actually a char, Salvelinus fontinalis. These fish can reproduce in lakes. Our native western trout species- genus Oncorhynchus - need suitable gravels in flowing streams to reproduce. Without suitable spawning grounds, such as at most high country lakes, cutthroat trout do not naturally spawn and replace the population, but die off after 7 or 8 years, a normal lifespan. Brook trout will reproduce and overpopulate a lake and consume all the food and are the skinny fish with big heads you describe. Once in a lake, Brook trout are near impossible to remove or eliminate. I am not a fan of Brook Trout. Our state's Department of Fish and Wildlife has been working on clever ways of ridding high country lakes of Brook Trout.

I think we agree that brook trout introduction was a mistake. I know a lot of the IDFG folks -- they are working hard to restore native fish populations and stave off invasives and "bucket biologist" introductions. It is an uphill battle, but they are very good at what they do.

 

[ski3pin]

I think we agree that brook trout introduction was a mistake. I know a lot of the IDFG folks -- they are working hard to restore native fish populations and stave off invasives and "bucket biologist" introductions. It is an uphill battle, but they are very good at what they do.

It sure is an uphill battle. Planting of trout in waters that were fishless has/had many unintended consequences, many that we possibly don't yet realize. Your second point is something all of us should take a deep breath and let it soak in. With all the complaining we hear - far to easy to do and so much of it is just noise - the majority of the folks in the field working for us are talented, clever, hard working folks trying to do the best job for us they can. They're part of our community, our neighbors, and friends. They deserve our utmost respect and support.

 

[ski3pin]

Lots more pretty trout, high mountains, and a little blood. Part Three is completed, posted to our blog, and may be found here -

Fly Fishing Oregon & Idaho Wilderness - August 2023 - Part Three

Please enjoy!

 

[AWG_Pics]

With all the complaining we hear - far to easy to do and so much of it is just noise - the majority of the folks in the field working for us are talented, clever, hard working folks trying to do the best job for us they can. They're part of our community, our neighbors, and friends. They deserve our utmost respect and support.

Well said! Heartily agree!

 

[AWG_Pics]

Lots more pretty trout, high mountains, and a little blood. Part Three is completed, posted to our blog, and may be found here -

Fly Fishing Oregon & Idaho Wilderness - August 2023 - Part Three

Please enjoy!

Fantastic report in fantastic country. And a red badge of courage (and determination to boot)! Seems like the wild country is always ready to bite. But you were prepared.

 

[LuckyDan]

While I’ve read all three installments, so far installment one resonates with me. I had a teacher in high school who was an avid fisherman and upland bird hunter. He was actually an interesting gent. He put Bull Trout, Steelhead and Chukar in the same category. That category being; “You go after Bullys the first couple of times for fun then after that you go for revenge”. Later in life I came to understand his logic.

Thanks for sharing. A nice trip for sure.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

<snip>
He put Bull Trout, Steelhead and Chukar in the same category. That category being; “You go after Bullys the first couple of times for fun then after that you go for revenge”. Later in life I came to understand his logic.
<snip>

I can vouch for this truth regarding steelhead and chukar, and suspect it’s true about bull trout as well.

 

[ski3pin]

Thanks you two! I've updated the identification of the mountain deathcamas but I'm still not certain on the yellow. One person suggested the invasive St. John's Wort, up I'm not sure of that either. I agree with the showy/aspen fleabane.

The aster might be showy fleabane / aspen fleabane, grows up to 40 inches tall and is found in NE Oregon. The petals look similar to your picture, but there are a lot of asters.

I enjoyed part one, and am looking forward to where part two brings you to in Idaho, as that is where we are now hanging our hat when it's not hanging in the camper.

White flower looks like Mountain Deathcamas - Anticlea elegans (formerly known as Zigadenus elegans.) Look but don't eat!

The yellow flower may be Pteronia, one of the numerous members of the Asteraceae family.

Great hikes and fishing!

The first white flower in question, my guess is mountain death camas - Anticlea elegans
I don't have a guess at the second (yellow) one.

For technical fly fishing, or any day fly fishing for that matter, you did great, and with the views and the water, I'd say it can't be beat. Thanks for taking us along!

 

[ski3pin]

You may be interested to review a University of Montana master's thesis and accompanying maps/plates entitled: "The geology and tectonic history of the Fourth of July Creek area, White Cloud Peaks, Custer County, Idaho", by Robert M Sengebush, 1984. The non color map (Plate 1) is pretty hard to read in the U of M's ScholarWorks PDF format, but it appears Sengebush has a thrust fault contact between two Paleozoic units, one including clastic rocks and gray limestones of Mississippian age (Salmon River sequence), running pretty much through Phyllis Lake and up the mountainside to the south. To the north of the lake, he's got the White Cloud Stock in contact with the Salmon River sequence. The fault is itself folded by subsequent compressional tectonic activity. If you look closely at the Ivory Peak picture, it looks like some folded bedding surfaces are truncated within the light buff rocks and the longer distance "evening view" picture shows a sharply differing lithology on the right which may be the "Pole Creek Formation" of Pennsylvanian-Permian age. My armchair guess is that the truncated bedding surfaces within the first picture are from minor intraformational faults within the Salmon River sequence and that the sharper lithologic change in the latter picture shows the thrust fault separating Salmon River sequence from Pole Creek Formation. Sengebush's work makes no mention of mineralization such as Elmer's mine, but his map shows the White Cloud Stock, a granitic intrusion of Cretaceous age, butting up against Phyllis Lake from the east, and a significant portion of metallic mineral deposits throughout the Rockies are found where these Cretaceous intrusives came into contact with older sedimentary rocks, particularly limestones. The Ivory Peak picture shows a series of veins cutting across bedding and not folded in the fashion that the bedding is folded, therefore younger than the folding. The veins are truncated to the right along one of the intraformational faults, perhaps indicative of continued brittle faulting following emplacement of the White Cloud Stock, from which the veins likely originated.
There is one heck of a lot going on in those two photos, Mr. Ski, whether my guesses are correct or not!

Foy, incredible information, thank you! If you haven't yet, take a look at some the geology that Occidental captured in another nearby range with his recent TR. I must chuckle a bit because there are many various reasons I take a photo, such as, is it a pretty scene, does it tell a story of a part of the trip, is Julie up to something fun again, or does it capture part of the natural world or natural processes I want to remember. That beautiful evening at Phyllis where the light highlighted all those folds and layers and intrusions, I honestly thought, "This one's for Foy."

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

A few weeks ago Yellowstone closed a few miles of Soda Butte Creek east of Pebble Creek CG
for a kill off of Brookies.
I realize they aren't native to our streams but fun to catch.
Frank

 

[Casa Escarlata Robles Too]

Thanks for part 3. Your Cut catching is killing me.I'm very envious .

Last time I caught cuts like that was at Heenan Lk. And some great ones at Yellowstone in the Madison.

As for the Arctic Graylings I did get several of those while in Denali.Fun little buggers to catch.

I so enjoy your story telling especially how you and Julie are together. I know the feeling of having a special friend like that.
Frank

 

[Vic Harder]

Ski, another excellent write up! I'd love to tag along, but wow, only virtually. You mention a 9 mile hike out... so 18 miles round trip? That's way more than what we can do these days!