Full build - Reconstructing a 1981 Grandby into a custom Hawk!

[PokyBro]

Aha, so you used L brackets to hold everything together to get it to the welder for all the welds? Did he use a Tig machine?

Ouray, you got it on the L-brackets. In the tear down I saved all the 1/4" screws and L-brackets, and purchased more L-brackets at Home Depot. I did quite a bit of extra work on the aluminum tubular frame. I put three vertical columns on all four corners, and on each side of the corner (Total of 5 per corner) to give a solid mount for the jacks. I redid the window sizes, and added height to the inside by building up the top and bottom of the frame, increasing interior height by 4 inches, and of course moved the front wall back one foot to fit my short bed pickup. I either held things in place with tape or L-brackets until I got it to the welder. I used acetone to clean all the places where I wanted welds (which I marked with a sharpie pen), and that got the metal clean and ready for welds. I had the welder run beads on both the inside and the outside of the frame, so it should remain pretty sturdy.

I went to a local welding shop and they quoted something like a $100 an hour which was a no go, but searching on Craigslist found a guy who did it out of the back yard for $50 Hr. Because of how much I remodeled the frame it cost quite a bit ($700), but in my case I got the camper for free, so my overall expense wasn't that great. He used a Lincoln Tig welder to do my job. I got to watch him on one of the days, and he really made it look easy, but he was truly a master at his craft. There was no burn through on any of the welds, anywhere. After spending that much, I wondered if I could have purchased my own machine and been able to learn how to do it, but I'm sure it turned out better the way I did it in the end.

Poky

 

[Ourayphotography]

Ouray, you got it on the L-brackets. In the tear down I saved all the 1/4" screws and L-brackets, and purchased more L-brackets at Home Depot. I did quite a bit of extra work on the aluminum tubular frame. I put three vertical columns on all four corners, and on each side of the corner (Total of 5 per corner) to give a solid mount for the jacks. I redid the window sizes, and added height to the inside by building up the top and bottom of the frame, increasing interior height by 4 inches, and of course moved the front wall back one foot to fit my short bed pickup. I either held things in place with tape or L-brackets until I got it to the welder. I used acetone to clean all the places where I wanted welds (which I marked with a sharpie pen), and that got the metal clean and ready for welds. I had the welder run beads on both the inside and the outside of the frame, so it should remain pretty sturdy.

I went to a local welding shop and they quoted something like a $100 an hour which was a no go, but searching on Craigslist found a guy who did it out of the back yard for $50 Hr. Because of how much I remodeled the frame it cost quite a bit ($700), but in my case I got the camper for free, so my overall expense wasn't that great. He used a Lincoln Tig welder to do my job. I got to watch him on one of the days, and he really made it look easy, but he was truly a master at his craft. There was no burn through on any of the welds, anywhere. After spending that much, I wondered if I could have purchased my own machine and been able to learn how to do it, but I'm sure it turned out better the way I did it in the end.

Poky

Yes, I finally found your page about the welds. Agree, buying a new tig machine might be doable. What is holding me back is the large amount of alum that would be required to rebuild mine. The cost of aluminum alone would be a big expense. Yours came out very nice, much beefier. I have been quoted $100/hr as well by the only shop I could find with any interest. If my steel frame plan works out, I could later take it to a tig shop to strengthen all the messy aluminum at a later date. I am waiting for my new mig machine to arrive, but still debate looking for a multi process machine.
Thanks again!
Michael

 

[PokyBro]

Well, thought I'd add an entry of something I did last year that might be useful to others in the how-to department.

When I was building my side dinette, I was struggling with the decision of how to do my table support. I knew I wanted to use the table for a bed support when taken off, but I needed a way to support the table when in use. I had on hand a common RV circular tube with a base and table attachments, but wasn't excited about a tube in-between my legs and the other person facing me setting together in the side dinette seats. It would have been in the way of our feet, and our knees.

I had seen pictures of the Lagun table support, but sort of felt that it was kind of pricey and was hesitant to go that route. But as the dinette came together it became obvious that the Lagun support was the way to go. At the time, I think it was around $175.00, but decided I would forget about the price if it worked out well, so I decided to go ahead and order it.

It comes with an attachment plate for the side wall you intend to attach it to, along with screws, nuts and washers, a backing plate of plywood, predrilled, and a plastic wedge if you need to adjust for vertical levelness, as well as the plate to mount under the table top.

The side wall I created had a pocket hole for storage as I took the wall straight up from the step on the floor pack. It wouldn't be strong enough by itself, so I used some 8 inch bolts to go through the wall plate, and the storage compartment, to the outside wall of the floor pack. The two screws that came with the base were plenty long enough to go through bottom holes of the base plate, and again to the outside wall.

Getting the base plate correctly vertical was the most critical part, but went in without a hitch.

The rest is easy, you just assemble the two parts for the table support, and it's ready to go.

The only other part to assembly is attaching the base plate for the bottom side of the table top. It came with six holes, but I decided to add four more since I had a bag of ten #12 screws, and wanted it to be plenty strong. I used 3/4" plywood for the tabletop, and used formica for the top surface, rounded the corners, and then used a slot cutter router bit, and installed plastic t-molding around the edge, for a very clean look, and something that will stand up to extended use.

There are several things I really like about the Lagun table support.

The obvious is that it allows you to swivel/ move the table top out of the way when not in use, or when you need to get up out of the seat.

It is also adjustable for height up and down.

It also comes apart so you can store the arm and leg of the mount out of the way at night when the bottom bunk is in use.
It's really a clever set up, and is made with heavy duty extruded aluminum parts.

Here are some pics of the table moved out of the way, and two different ways I can store the leg. There is a channel on the bottom of the table base plate that the leg slides onto, and will hold itself in place when the table top is in place, right side up for the bed support. Or a faster method is to leave the two parts together, and set the L-shaped combo under the table top on the floor underneath. Either way works great.

So, all in all, it was a fun easy project, it's very nice looking, and looks like a factory installed set up. It's less cumbersome for the seating arrangement, and lastly, well worth the cost. No looking back!

So if anyone is trying to think of a good table support set up, and maybe even trying to think of a way to build something, you might give the Lagun swivel mount some serious thought, I'm glad I did.




Poky

https://www.lagunusa.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjw-4_mBRBuEiwA5xnFIPcAmmt--Hhlgzh1DMsOInnJk2rDjtRzhy_X_MBOaQ3ry4lQeytn4xoCYucQAvD_BwE

 

[Ourayphotography]

Good to see you are still at it, cool to go look at your old pictures

 

[Living The Dream]

Looks like a professional table, perfect for the professional grade build you put together.

 

[Overlander47]

Hey Poky!

I've been reading your build and LOVING IT! I just purchased an 80's Grandby and I'll be doing a build very similar to yours. I live in Orem, Utah! I was wondering if I could stop by and see your camper sometime?

 

[PokyBro]

Hi Overlander47,

Congratulations on your new to you Grandby. You’d be welcome to come by and take a look and ask questions. Glad to help.

PM sent!

Poky

 

[a8ksh4]

Hi Poky, when you put the trim back on your roof, what combination of sealants did you use? Butyl tape with silicon along the edge?

 

[PokyBro]

a8ksh4

To answer your question I'll just review how I assembled the roof. The headliner under neath was wrapped around the periphery tubes first while upside down. when flipped back over top side up, and when I was installing the side liner, I measured 1 inch all the way around the top of the side liner, and then tucked that up underneath the rooftop aluminum sheeting, which was then bent down over top of the side liner material in a shingle type arrangement, and stapled to the periphery tubes of the roof frame, prior to installing the outer trim ring.

All the above to say that I did not use butyl tape on the inside of the roof trim pieces, because it didn't seem needed, and also because I had never picked up on any idea it might be done that way. The original side liner, fastened over top of the roof sheeting, sandwiched between the roof sheeting folded over and the roof trim pieces did not have butyl tape when installed in 1981, just sealant to cover the gap, which often failed and caused internal leakage common with the older campers if not kept up regularly. That being said it might not be a bad idea, but it would be rather messy if you ever had to take the trim pieces off for a side liner replacement.

After the trim rings were on I sealed the gap on mine between the roof trim and the sheeting with Proflex by Geocel, which has held up so far.

Hope that helps!

Poky

 

[a8ksh4]

Thanks, Poky. Yeah, that helps a lot! I'll get a tube of proflex to do the edge after I install the trim. The last tool I've been stalling on buying was a stapler, but it seems like it makes pinning the material a lot easier. I might just go for it and buy one (and an air compressor) to finish this up.

 

[ajacobo]

With the Memorial Day weekend, extra time, and good weather, I was able to get a lot done toward my camper's
final completion, and closer to being fully useable, and looking like I want it to. I'm determined to get this done and go use it already. My focus has been on finishing the dinette seating, getting the table mounted, and and completing the second bed on the bottom.

So, this weekend I installed carpeting on the side beneath the window, attached hinges to the storage compartment doors, carpeting on the seat tops, and adding hinges for those storage compartments, Installing the seat back bracket, and installing the Lagun table base plate mount to the side wall, and constructing a raised foot platform between the dinette seating. So next, it will be sewing up the cushions for the dinette seats that will convert into the bed cushions as well. I'm looking forward to that project, as I can do it indoors in the evenings, one at a time. I really like how things turned out this weekend, it gave the camper a more finished feel, and even had the smell of a new camper.

Here's a few photos of the the projects progress.


The dinette seating with a center, raised foot platform and storage compartment, between the dinette seats. My side walls are 20 inches high, and it felt like my legs were dangling, so the platform raises your feet up 4 inches which is more comfortable, plus the added bonus of another storage location.






A couple other views, and a peak at the side compartment storage areas.



I had a table mount system that would utilize a center tube with a base that goes between your legs, and attaches to the bottom of the table top. I thought it a waste to mount that to the foot platform and loose that storage area, plus interference for foot placement. So I decided to bite the bullet and ordered a Lagun swivel table mount. It's not cheap at $174, but I think well worth it all things considered. It's nice to be able to swivel the table out of the way when not needed, and there's absolutely no interference with legs and feet, in a tight area. It's also very well constructed and should be very durable over time.




A couple views of the dinette seat bracket I constructed. It's not very sophisticated, but I think a practicable approach. Rather than folding over and forward like the fold over brackets FWC uses, mine lays down backwards. I have a wood back attached now, but this will soon included a foam cushion and cover over top of it.




And finally, the seat back laid down, and the table top in position for the full bed layout. The table top sticks out a little, but rather than it conform to the bed layout, I opted for a wider table top when eating.The bed is 31"x 82", so plenty of room for a full sized person to be very comfortable. The cushion will be 3 1/2" thick, and this will serve to be a comfortable stealth bed as well, if needed on some trips.

That's about it for now, but as I said, the seat cushions are next, as well as rounding the corners on the table top, applying the formica/ laminate top, and t-molding around the edge. Stay tuned!

what seat brackets did you use to fold the seat back? and where did you find them?

 

[PokyBro]

Ajacobo,

Sorry for taking so long to respond, I was out of town, and waited to get back home to take some photos.

As you know, the FWC seat brackets on side dinette rotate forward and flip over. In my build design, I wanted to have the seat back fold over backwards to rest on a shelf or brace. I came up with a relatively simple design. I used two pieces of angle iron, and put a decreasing slope on each end. They are connected with a rivet that was pounded to hold the two pieces together, and create a hinge. Secondly, there is also a brace riveted on the upright piece, and connects to the lower piece with a removable Clovis pin. The seat bracket was bolted to the seat box, and has proven to be very strong and stable. As stated earlier, in the folded down position, it rests on a shelf attached to the back wall. The height of the seat box allows for storage of a port-a-poti. Below are a series of photos that might give you a clearer view of the bracket and how it works.

Hope this helps.

Poky

 

[PokyBro]

Build update.
It’s been quite awhile since doing any follow up to mods and improvements to my build. Two changes have been made, including moving to a lithium battery set up, and acquiring a porta-potti for the Mrs.

First, the lithium upgrade. I had been using two 6v golf cart batteries that seemed to be doing okay, but at the time only having a volt meter, I frequently saw the voltage get a bit low. It caused that familiar, “is there enough battery left anxiety”, and in reading many other posts, I was motivated to make the change. I only have solar and shore power charging functions at the moment, with a 160 watt panel on top. In November 2019, Battleborn had a “blemish” sale on Cyber Monday on their 100 ah batteries for $725, which was a pretty good discount, so I ordered one. I didn’t install it until the following spring, however. Switching to lithium also meant a change in solar charge controller to handle the lithium charge parameters, which my old controller didn’t have. I ordered a Victron 100/30, and later a Victron BMV-712 monitor so I could better assess and watch for battery SOC. Not sure I needed it, but Battleborn had another cyber Monday sale in 2020, and I ordered a second 100ah battery, yet to be installed. I also have a second 160 watt solar panel to add that was acquired for free. I have an isotherm 130L fridge, Atwood furnace, two powered fans, water pump, and lights. The fridge and furnace are the principal users of power. Anyhow, I’m confident I won’t have many power worries moving forward. I plan to eventually add 120ac inverter to the mix, for the third big draw on power. Anyhow, that’s the update.

Next was adding a Porta-potti for my wife. She hadn’t been on that many outings previously, and this past summer we went on several trips. The big concern that came up was where to use the bathroom. While it’s not ideal to have a latrine in a small camper, it’s solves the problem of getting up at night and not needing to go outside. It was difficult to find any porta-potti’s in stock during the summer, of any brand, much less what you wanted. In my research, I favored the Thetford curve because of height and shape, but couldn’t locate a place to buy. The one problem that reviews continued to express concern, was these used an battery operated water pump, that was known to fail. A replacement manual pump was possible to order from Europe, but was pricey compared to overall cost of the toilet. As I continued to search for a place to buy, including Amazon, they were always out of stock. Finally I came across info on a manual pump version that could be ordered from Europe through Camping World, and was available in the fall. This solved the potential concern for pump failure. So the difference is the USA version is a Thetford 565e (electric flush), and the European version is a Thetford 565p (manual pump). I think it was around $204, shipped from Europe, and arrived in 2 weeks. It fits nicely in a cubby behind the rear dinette seat, and will come in handy in the future. For those not familiar, here are a few pics of this model. Personally, in addition to height, I like the oval bowl shape vs the more common round versions in other Porta-potty’s.

That’s it for now.

 

[Abbiennormal]

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After checking the fit on the pickup, I bought a couple hundred dollars worth of 1 inch square tubbing from a local metal store, where they have about anything you need, and went to work on the restore. I wanted to replace some of the corner posts, and all four corners now have three tubes each direction for the camper jack bolts to bite into, and keep thinks solid. In 1981 they weren't using corner jacks on these campers, so it's no surprise the weight of the jacks took a tole on this outfit when installed by the previous owner.

I bought an "organ donner" Palomino pop-up, that had had the top blown off on the highway in windy Wyoming, for a reasonable price, that I could repurpose parts. So you'll notice different window configurations, and vent holes for a 3-way fridge, I intended to use as I re-framed this shell. After taping things into place, I later used a boat-load of L-brackets and screws to hold it all together until it was ready to be welded. I am not experienced or set up to do aluminum welding. So I would still have to find someone to do that for me after I got things assembled.

More to come......


Sent from my iPad using Wander The West

Hi Poky,
Your rebuild have inspired me to slowly gut my 86 Grandby and I am going to use your build as a template for mine. Question, instead of adding more aluminum to reinforce the corners for the jacks, do you think I could use wood? The camper will be moved from an 86 F150 to a Toyota Tundra with an 8'.1" bed. I should be able to close the tailgate. I did have FWC put in the forged floor bolts for me already. My task is to unbolt it from the Ford first. Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Abbienormal

 

[PokyBro]

Abbienormal,

Thanks for checking out my build, and I hope you find some of the information beneficial.

When I disassembled my camper, there was plywood pieces in the corners which provided extra bite for the jack screws, so perhaps adding some wood on each side of the corner tubing might work. Since I took mine down to the frame, and there were a number of broken welds and cracks, I saw it as a good opportunity to do all the extra reinforcement shown in the build thread. The original frame in mine only had a single 1”x1” tube on each corner, and the previous owner had attached jacks to those corners. On one there had been numerous extra holes drilled, and it looked like Swiss cheese, so it had to be replaced. If yours has never had jacks attached to the corners, it might be worth a try, but understand it would be a little on the weak side, as the 1”x1” tubing is very thin walled and was not necessarily designed to use corner jacks. If you’re not going down to the frame, and don’t want any additional material added, or no welding needed, it might be better to stay with the two cable jacks commonly used back then which are centered on each side for loading/ unloading.

Feel free to check back with any additional questions, and good luck on your project.

Poky

 

[Abbiennormal]

Hi Poky,

Thank you for sharing your knowledge! Life kinda got in the way since I last wrote to you and I am only starting to get to my pop up now. I removed the inside walls and found that my corners have two 1 inch bars on them. My model is an 86 so FWC probably beefed it up since your model. I would still feel better if there is more metal in there for stability. So I am following your footsteps and have stripped all the interior walls off. Next is the exterior skin and pop up portion.

Found a leak in the overhead bed so that will need to be removed too. It has bowed overtime and looks like the original plywood. We don't get too much rain here in CA so that was my saving grace. I saw that you made the bed portion deeper. How did you curve the aluminum bars?

Abbienormal

 

[PokyBro]

Hi Abbiennormal,

Nice to hear from you, and happy to hear that you’re still working on your build, and hope it goes well.

Regarding your question of how I made the bend around the bed radius at each corner, if you can’t already see on the top of the frame on your camper as it bends around the front corners for the bed overhang (they might be covered up). I’ve drawn a rough sketch of what that looks like on the square tubing. The way I made the cuts in the tubing, which it appears is how the factory does it, is to use a grinding wheel on a 12 inch metal saw, and saw/ grind a cut down on the top of the tube, and on front and back, until you get about 1/8” from the bottom. If you can uncover your camper frame on these radius curves, you can measure how far apart these cuts are for sure, but I think around a quarter inch, with the cut being about 1/8” wide. If you are planning to add one or two tubes to the top of the frame, you can measure from the back corner going forward to where the first cut begins, and the last one ends as it completes the curve, and then make the appropriate number of cuts for the bend.

You will want to make extra sure as you add the tubes to the top of the frame, that they are exactly on top of the original C-channel, so you don’t accidentally widen the frame, and cause an issue with the roof not fitting over the frame correctly when it is folded down. There will need to be a 1/4” or so overhang on each side of the roof for the trim ring to fit around on the outside. Measure the width crosswise from one side of the camper body to the other ahead of time, so you can keep it exact. Mine was, I think, 80” on the dot. You can use clamps to hold the added tubes in place, and /or take some flat short straps (I used L-brackets hammered out flat, and providing four screw holes) to hold the aluminum stock in place so the welder didn’t have to mess with the clamps. I just used some of the #8 hex screws left over from the tear down.

Hope all of that makes some kind of sense, and gives an idea of how to accomplish this, and perhaps the sketch will also help.

Poky

 

[Abbiennormal]

Hi Abbiennormal,

Nice to hear from you, and happy to hear that you’re still working on your build, and hope it goes well.

Regarding your question of how I made the bend around the bed radius at each corner, if you can’t already see on the top of the frame on your camper as it bends around the front corners for the bed overhang (they might be covered up). I’ve drawn a rough sketch of what that looks like on the square tubing. The way I made the cuts in the tubing, which it appears is how the factory does it, is to use a grinding wheel on a 12 inch metal saw, and saw/ grind a cut down on the top of the tube, and on front and back, until you get about 1/8” from the bottom. If you can uncover your camper frame on these radius curves, you can measure how far apart these cuts are for sure, but I think around a quarter inch, with the cut being about 1/8” wide. If you are planning to add one or two tubes to the top of the frame, you can measure from the back corner going forward to where the first cut begins, and the last one ends as it completes the curve, and then make the appropriate number of cuts for the bend.

You will want to make extra sure as you add the tubes to the top of the frame, that they are exactly on top of the original C-channel, so you don’t accidentally widen the frame, and cause an issue with the roof not fitting over the frame correctly when it is folded down. There will need to be a 1/4” or so overhang on each side of the roof for the trim ring to fit around on the outside. Measure the width crosswise from one side of the camper body to the other ahead of time, so you can keep it exact. Mine was, I think, 80” on the dot. You can use clamps to hold the added tubes in place, and /or take some flat short straps (I used L-brackets hammered out flat, and providing four screw holes) to hold the aluminum stock in place so the welder didn’t have to mess with the clamps. I just used some of the #8 hex screws left over from the tear down.

Hope all of that makes some kind of sense, and gives an idea of how to accomplish this, and perhaps the sketch will also help.

Poky

Thanks Poky! I was about to embark on this with great trepidation but you have put my mind at ease. Your help is much appreciated!

 

[PokyBro]

Back in January, from my post above, I shared that I had purchased a new Thetford 565p PortaPotti, and was hoping it would be a nice addition to the camper to make things nicer for my wife.

We enjoyed our first outing back in March, leaving American Fork Utah, and heading to Las Vegas, NV where we have family. On our way we stopped in St George UT to meet up with a couple from college days, many years ago, which was very nice. That night, we drove to Valley of Fire, and found an area for dispersed camping outside the park, and set up in the dark.

We arose to a beautiful sunrise, and the start to a very enjoyable day in the park. It was that morning that I noticed a puddle of water under the PortaPotti (fresh water). Upon closer inspection, it became clear the upper reservoir tank was leaking at the seam where the two halves were glue together.

When I returned home I looked up information on the warranty for the PortaPotti, and determined it was for one year after purchase. Since I bought it in October 2020, it appeared I was in good shape, except one problem, I had purchased it from overseas.

Hats off to Camping World UK!

Because the manual pump version is not available in the US, I had purchased this unit on the internet from Camping World UK. Following their warranty directions, I typed up an email, and attached the above photos, and sent it off. They responded the next day, and expressing I wasn’t feeling responsible for shipping the faulty product back to the UK, they said no problem, we’ll send you a new one. One week later the complete brand new unit in the original box showed up. What great service and quick response without having to go through the manufacturer.

We have since been out on other outings and everything is fine now. So, glad this worked out for the positive. I highly recommend this model of the Thetford 565P, which as stated earlier above is a manual pump version vs the 565E battery operated version sold in the US. I had read reviews that had reported problems with 565E electric pump failing, and I felt like there would be less problems with manual pump for durability long term. There may not be any problems with the electric pump version in reality, but this was the direction I chose. Anyhow, just wanted to report back, and give a shout out to Camping World UK.

Poky


Some additional photos from Valley of Fire

Our fury baby Vizsla, ZuZu

 

[Living The Dream]

Poky, Glad to see you still out there using the camper. And optimizing it so well too. Enjoy!