Ramblinman
Senior Member
Bill D your not the only one - I got corrosion under the rear man door. Frustrating. Where did you get your screws?
FWC Warranty - corrosion, service and propane
- Thread starter Bill D
- Start date
Stan@FourWheel
Senior Member
Hello Bill
Thanks for the posting.
Regarding the camper warranty, I have also felt it a bit weird that the warranty was only for the original owner of the camper, but that is how is has been set up for at least 15 years +. It was like that for the 15 years I worked here for Tom, and maybe Ben Bernette had it that way too, before Tom bought the company. The camper roof, liner, and frames are built well, so it hasn't proved to be much of a problem for customers buying a used camper over the years. The good news is that all of the appliances still have the warranty attached to them, so if you have a problem with a refrigerator, furnace, hot water heater, battery, jacks, etc, it could be covered from the manufacturer of that part. I think when you were in here last, the owner or the service department offered to do the repairs at a discounted rate but you decided against it? I'll check to see if they have any notes out in the shop. When customers have an older camper or have bought a used camper, we will usually find a reasonable solution for the repairs, even if we can't offer a full warranty at that point.
With trucks changing over the years and having dealt with so many different customers over the years, requiring an authorized FWC Dealer or our Factory do the initial camper installation with tie downs and wiring is the best way (just in our experience). Years back when we allowed some customers to do there own camper installation, no matter how good of instructions we provided for installation details, errors did occur. Tie downs were installed in the wrong location, wiring was sometimes hooked up incorrectly, etc. Most of the time it went really smooth, but the times it didn't, both the customer and ourselves were frustrated. And if we don't do the install, it is hard for us to troubleshoot problems down the road (if we don't know what the customer has installed after-market). I prefer to do all my own work on my trucks & cars, so I totally understand when customers want to do their own camper install. I know my truck and car better that any mechanic at Jiffy Lube. But that said, most of our dealers and our factory techs are really good at doing the camper installation. They do hundreds each year.
I have not heard of any problems with our propane tanks in Canada? I helped Gary Morrissey start his dealership in Canada back in 2008. Over the last 9 years we have probably sold approx. 300 - 400 campers to Canadian customers and those campers, plus many more used campers, are running still around Canada. If there was a problem, we'd be the first to hear about it, or it would be all over the forums too. The campers we build for Gary meet all of the Canadian Standards that we are aware of. The biggest thing for Canadian camper is that the propane lines & propane system is a bit different. They require propane lines to be run on the outside of the camper, rather than inside the kitchen cabinets like the USA Models. That would be the biggest difference i'm aware of. But I'll look into it further. If we just need to order a different propane tank for Canadian campers, that would be easy. Nobody has brought it up, so we haven't had the need to change it. Gary replied back to me and said that they never have any problem filling tanks, at least the new type, in Canada. The older horizontal tanks sometimes have issues. He recently had a number of the older upright tanks re-certified and again and had no issues having them re-certified in Canada. But again, I'll reach out to my contacts to see if I can find out more.
The pitting or corrosion could come from maybe a few possible things (just my opinion, thinking off the top of my head, from what I have seen with all brands of campers over the years). One ... maybe electrolysis, but I would doubt that. Usually if you have a bad ground or a wire touching the frame, you will get items inside the camper not working (ex: lights not coming on), lights will randomly flicker, or you will will be blowing fuses. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but these would be the most common signs. Two ... corrosion from water & salt (living near the ocean or driving where the roads are salted). Three ... dis-similar metals reacting against each other. All these years I've been working here, we just haven't had any problems to speak of, where the aluminum cabover nose was doing that. If we did, it will usually be here on the forums. But that said, I have seen a couple handfuls of camper though that had corrosion on the lower rear wall of the camper, along the outer side trim pieces & along the lower trim piece. The trim was installed with a foam tape sealant, and the best we could tell in most all cases, salt & water was able to drip behind the trim piece, the salt water was retained in the foam, and it helped create the reaction between the steel screws and aluminum skin/trim. Quite the easy fix in most cases on the rear wall. Easier than re-skinning the nose of the camper. With the old wood frame cabover campers, I have seen where the companies would use steel staples to construct the wood frame of the camper, and then skin it with aluminum sides. With the aluminum touching the steel staples, and moisture present, the aluminum skin would pit like what you have noted in your pictures. But it was in many ares of the camper in those cases?
I'm not sure what we can do for the future to make you happy, but if you are in the area again and might want to stop by, I can talk with the owner here to see if we can try to find a middle ground solution to help out if we can.
We apologize for the problem. When we see a pattern of problems with any particular campers, we usually going to over-time mode to find out what it is and find a fix ASAP for it. We are not perfect, but we really do try and make the best camper we can. We are always trying to make improvements and get better at what we do.
Thank you. Stan
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
To say the least, I'm unimpressed with FWC both in terms of product quality, company product research and customer service.
-FWC factory warranties are not transferable
2.1. Who May Use this Warranty?
[SIZE=11pt]This limited warranty extends to the original consumer purchaser only. It does not extend to any subsequent owner or other transferee of the truck camper. [/SIZE]
-If you install your own camper you void all warranties
Can the customer do their own installation?
At one point that was possible, but with the more complicated trucks now on the market it is no longer advisable to try to do your own install. The factory now expressly notes that a self-install will void all warranties.
-FWC propane tanks sold in Canada are not legal to be refilled in Canada.
Service:
I purchased a preowned 2013 FWC in Feb 2015 it was about 16 months old. I had intended to purchase a brand new unit from the dealer in Canada. I had an appointment set up to make the purchase. The day before I was to leave for my appointment a very new pre-owned became available for sale en route, which I purchased. The dealer refused to install it for me. I assume he was bitter that he lost a sale, but stated it was because there could be issues.
Quality:
July 2016 I started this thread due to corrosion on the aluminum front of the camper. I went ahead and dealt with the issue on my own by covering the corrosion with checker plate, which is outlined in the thread. A year later, I am facing more corrosion. It's obvious that the only solution is to replace the entire aluminum facing on the front of the camper. I contacted FWC and stated I was the second owner. This is the response I received.
"Unfortunately the warranty doesn’t extend beyond the original owner."
I was offered to have the repair labour done for $525 USD in California which is 1500 miles away from me.
Research:
Last summer I went to refill my propane cylinder as a Costco in Canada and the attendant informed me that he could not refill them because they do are not TC (Transport Canada) certified. They are DOT certified. I though the attendant did not know what they were talking about. I contacted Transport Canada and gave them all the info on the tanks. It is not legal to refill them in Canada. In addition they can not be re-certified to be used in Canada.
I contacted FWC about this and this is the first they had heard of this issue. Their solution was for me to wait 3-4 weeks for them to source TC certified tanks which I would then have to pay for shipping, if it was even possible to ship them to me.
To my knowledge FWC is still shipping DOT certified tanks to Canadian customers.
I'm sure FWC will see this post and as big of a fan as I am of the product, I feel that the business needs development, particularly for those outside of the US. Driving to the factory isn't practical for many of us.
My goal is help those who plan on dropping $20K on a pre-owned unit. You may want to think twice or at least know what you are getting yourself into.
Thanks for the posting.
Regarding the camper warranty, I have also felt it a bit weird that the warranty was only for the original owner of the camper, but that is how is has been set up for at least 15 years +. It was like that for the 15 years I worked here for Tom, and maybe Ben Bernette had it that way too, before Tom bought the company. The camper roof, liner, and frames are built well, so it hasn't proved to be much of a problem for customers buying a used camper over the years. The good news is that all of the appliances still have the warranty attached to them, so if you have a problem with a refrigerator, furnace, hot water heater, battery, jacks, etc, it could be covered from the manufacturer of that part. I think when you were in here last, the owner or the service department offered to do the repairs at a discounted rate but you decided against it? I'll check to see if they have any notes out in the shop. When customers have an older camper or have bought a used camper, we will usually find a reasonable solution for the repairs, even if we can't offer a full warranty at that point.
With trucks changing over the years and having dealt with so many different customers over the years, requiring an authorized FWC Dealer or our Factory do the initial camper installation with tie downs and wiring is the best way (just in our experience). Years back when we allowed some customers to do there own camper installation, no matter how good of instructions we provided for installation details, errors did occur. Tie downs were installed in the wrong location, wiring was sometimes hooked up incorrectly, etc. Most of the time it went really smooth, but the times it didn't, both the customer and ourselves were frustrated. And if we don't do the install, it is hard for us to troubleshoot problems down the road (if we don't know what the customer has installed after-market). I prefer to do all my own work on my trucks & cars, so I totally understand when customers want to do their own camper install. I know my truck and car better that any mechanic at Jiffy Lube. But that said, most of our dealers and our factory techs are really good at doing the camper installation. They do hundreds each year.
I have not heard of any problems with our propane tanks in Canada? I helped Gary Morrissey start his dealership in Canada back in 2008. Over the last 9 years we have probably sold approx. 300 - 400 campers to Canadian customers and those campers, plus many more used campers, are running still around Canada. If there was a problem, we'd be the first to hear about it, or it would be all over the forums too. The campers we build for Gary meet all of the Canadian Standards that we are aware of. The biggest thing for Canadian camper is that the propane lines & propane system is a bit different. They require propane lines to be run on the outside of the camper, rather than inside the kitchen cabinets like the USA Models. That would be the biggest difference i'm aware of. But I'll look into it further. If we just need to order a different propane tank for Canadian campers, that would be easy. Nobody has brought it up, so we haven't had the need to change it. Gary replied back to me and said that they never have any problem filling tanks, at least the new type, in Canada. The older horizontal tanks sometimes have issues. He recently had a number of the older upright tanks re-certified and again and had no issues having them re-certified in Canada. But again, I'll reach out to my contacts to see if I can find out more.
The pitting or corrosion could come from maybe a few possible things (just my opinion, thinking off the top of my head, from what I have seen with all brands of campers over the years). One ... maybe electrolysis, but I would doubt that. Usually if you have a bad ground or a wire touching the frame, you will get items inside the camper not working (ex: lights not coming on), lights will randomly flicker, or you will will be blowing fuses. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but these would be the most common signs. Two ... corrosion from water & salt (living near the ocean or driving where the roads are salted). Three ... dis-similar metals reacting against each other. All these years I've been working here, we just haven't had any problems to speak of, where the aluminum cabover nose was doing that. If we did, it will usually be here on the forums. But that said, I have seen a couple handfuls of camper though that had corrosion on the lower rear wall of the camper, along the outer side trim pieces & along the lower trim piece. The trim was installed with a foam tape sealant, and the best we could tell in most all cases, salt & water was able to drip behind the trim piece, the salt water was retained in the foam, and it helped create the reaction between the steel screws and aluminum skin/trim. Quite the easy fix in most cases on the rear wall. Easier than re-skinning the nose of the camper. With the old wood frame cabover campers, I have seen where the companies would use steel staples to construct the wood frame of the camper, and then skin it with aluminum sides. With the aluminum touching the steel staples, and moisture present, the aluminum skin would pit like what you have noted in your pictures. But it was in many ares of the camper in those cases?
I'm not sure what we can do for the future to make you happy, but if you are in the area again and might want to stop by, I can talk with the owner here to see if we can try to find a middle ground solution to help out if we can.
We apologize for the problem. When we see a pattern of problems with any particular campers, we usually going to over-time mode to find out what it is and find a fix ASAP for it. We are not perfect, but we really do try and make the best camper we can. We are always trying to make improvements and get better at what we do.
Thank you. Stan
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
To say the least, I'm unimpressed with FWC both in terms of product quality, company product research and customer service.
-FWC factory warranties are not transferable
2.1. Who May Use this Warranty?
[SIZE=11pt]This limited warranty extends to the original consumer purchaser only. It does not extend to any subsequent owner or other transferee of the truck camper. [/SIZE]
-If you install your own camper you void all warranties
Can the customer do their own installation?
At one point that was possible, but with the more complicated trucks now on the market it is no longer advisable to try to do your own install. The factory now expressly notes that a self-install will void all warranties.
-FWC propane tanks sold in Canada are not legal to be refilled in Canada.
Service:
I purchased a preowned 2013 FWC in Feb 2015 it was about 16 months old. I had intended to purchase a brand new unit from the dealer in Canada. I had an appointment set up to make the purchase. The day before I was to leave for my appointment a very new pre-owned became available for sale en route, which I purchased. The dealer refused to install it for me. I assume he was bitter that he lost a sale, but stated it was because there could be issues.
Quality:
July 2016 I started this thread due to corrosion on the aluminum front of the camper. I went ahead and dealt with the issue on my own by covering the corrosion with checker plate, which is outlined in the thread. A year later, I am facing more corrosion. It's obvious that the only solution is to replace the entire aluminum facing on the front of the camper. I contacted FWC and stated I was the second owner. This is the response I received.
"Unfortunately the warranty doesn’t extend beyond the original owner."
I was offered to have the repair labour done for $525 USD in California which is 1500 miles away from me.
Research:
Last summer I went to refill my propane cylinder as a Costco in Canada and the attendant informed me that he could not refill them because they do are not TC (Transport Canada) certified. They are DOT certified. I though the attendant did not know what they were talking about. I contacted Transport Canada and gave them all the info on the tanks. It is not legal to refill them in Canada. In addition they can not be re-certified to be used in Canada.
I contacted FWC about this and this is the first they had heard of this issue. Their solution was for me to wait 3-4 weeks for them to source TC certified tanks which I would then have to pay for shipping, if it was even possible to ship them to me.
To my knowledge FWC is still shipping DOT certified tanks to Canadian customers.
I'm sure FWC will see this post and as big of a fan as I am of the product, I feel that the business needs development, particularly for those outside of the US. Driving to the factory isn't practical for many of us.
My goal is help those who plan on dropping $20K on a pre-owned unit. You may want to think twice or at least know what you are getting yourself into.
Bill D
Senior Member
Hi Stan. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I haven't been to your factory, so whomever you offered to do a fix for, wasn't myself. I live in Edmonton, Alberta Canada. Approx 1500 miles from your shop.
Regarding the propane tanks, I had email correspondence with Roy Dye at FWC. He mentioned that the issue was brought up with the Purchasing Manager.
So we spoke to the manufacturer of the tanks, we can order some with that stamp on it. It will take about 3-4 weeks for us to get. The manufacturer doesn’t carry stock on those particular tanks so they need to make them. I could send you two tanks, I’m not sure how though. I would imagine it would most likely be a couple hundred dollars just in shipping, if it was even possible to ship them. I’m not really sure where to go from here. This has never been issue in the past and we are all still scratching our heads.
I no longer have the notes of the person I spoke to at Transport Canada. I did a great deal of research and spent a lot of time ensuring I was getting the information from the correct source. In fact, they contacted me. I apologize, that I no longer have the info. Bottom line from the discussion is that propane tanks need to be TC certified for use in Canada. DOT certified doesn't cut it.
Perhaps I will make my way down to California some day. Thanks for the invite. It won't be any time too soon though, as the drive alone consumes most of my holiday time. I do however make it out to the Vancouver area where Gary Morrissey is. In fact I'll be in the area 2 weeks from now.
I haven't been to your factory, so whomever you offered to do a fix for, wasn't myself. I live in Edmonton, Alberta Canada. Approx 1500 miles from your shop.
Regarding the propane tanks, I had email correspondence with Roy Dye at FWC. He mentioned that the issue was brought up with the Purchasing Manager.
So we spoke to the manufacturer of the tanks, we can order some with that stamp on it. It will take about 3-4 weeks for us to get. The manufacturer doesn’t carry stock on those particular tanks so they need to make them. I could send you two tanks, I’m not sure how though. I would imagine it would most likely be a couple hundred dollars just in shipping, if it was even possible to ship them. I’m not really sure where to go from here. This has never been issue in the past and we are all still scratching our heads.
I no longer have the notes of the person I spoke to at Transport Canada. I did a great deal of research and spent a lot of time ensuring I was getting the information from the correct source. In fact, they contacted me. I apologize, that I no longer have the info. Bottom line from the discussion is that propane tanks need to be TC certified for use in Canada. DOT certified doesn't cut it.
Perhaps I will make my way down to California some day. Thanks for the invite. It won't be any time too soon though, as the drive alone consumes most of my holiday time. I do however make it out to the Vancouver area where Gary Morrissey is. In fact I'll be in the area 2 weeks from now.
Yukon
Senior Member
I had a small problem with the siding of my 2008 Eagle (purchased from the factory). It was minor. Appeared to be paint coming off the siding near the rear of the camper. It had nothing to do with electrolysis. See photo. I live in Washington but on a trip, I stopped by the company. They looked it over and said they would fix it for free (part of the warranty). I was very impressed by their attitude! I feel they stand by their products. I have no idea what would cause this. I still love my camper (sorry to be so sappy).
Chris
Chris
Attachments
I also have some corrosion and rust on my Fiberglass Hawk (2016 model). I spend a lot of time on the coast so I am assuming it's salt spray exposure. It is concerning and I plan to swing by the factory in the near future (I'm only 20 miles away). In some cases it looks to me like some of the screws were not properly treated. For my rear awing attachment the Drivers side is fine, but the pass side has corroded a lot. I actually pulled those out and put some rustoleum on them just to slow the process down.
Bill D
Senior Member
Regarding the camper warranty, I have also felt it a bit weird that the warranty was only for the original owner of the camper, but that is how is has been set up for at least 15 years +. It was like that for the 15 years I worked here for Tom, and maybe Ben Bernette had it that way too, before Tom bought the company. The camper roof, liner, and frames are built well, so it hasn't proved to be much of a problem for customers buying a used camper over the years.
Wouldn't it then stand to reason that it would cost FWC very little to stand behind the warranty beyond the original owner, being the number of cases would be so few. Perhaps this is something that FWC may wish to reevaluate. Consumer expectations have certainly changed over the past 15 years.
Having worked in management for an Apple Service Center for 5+ years, I have seen time and time again Apple going above and beyond for the customer. ie. pets destroying $3000 laptops etc. I recall one case where a client's warranty had expired while they were travelling out of country. The client did not realize the warranty was international and could have had a repair done while in the USA. Upon returning to Canada Apple still honoured the repair. I have dozens of stories I could share.
BTW, if FWC were to do something for me, I'd be happy just to receive the parts needed to do the fix myself so I don't need to spend a bunch of time and $ researching and sourcing the correct materials and parts. I'm not sure what is all needed. It might just be a $20 piece of aluminum.
Wouldn't it then stand to reason that it would cost FWC very little to stand behind the warranty beyond the original owner, being the number of cases would be so few. Perhaps this is something that FWC may wish to reevaluate. Consumer expectations have certainly changed over the past 15 years.
Having worked in management for an Apple Service Center for 5+ years, I have seen time and time again Apple going above and beyond for the customer. ie. pets destroying $3000 laptops etc. I recall one case where a client's warranty had expired while they were travelling out of country. The client did not realize the warranty was international and could have had a repair done while in the USA. Upon returning to Canada Apple still honoured the repair. I have dozens of stories I could share.
BTW, if FWC were to do something for me, I'd be happy just to receive the parts needed to do the fix myself so I don't need to spend a bunch of time and $ researching and sourcing the correct materials and parts. I'm not sure what is all needed. It might just be a $20 piece of aluminum.
Stan@FourWheel
Senior Member
Hey Bill
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
I completely agree, and will bring it up at the next staff meeting.
I think our service guys had you maybe mixed up with another customer when I asked them.
I'd be happy to see if I can round up some parts for you so you can make the repair.
Can you email me directly at ... stan@fourwh.com
We can start a conversation and see what it will take to get things squared away for you?
Thanks
Stan
.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
I completely agree, and will bring it up at the next staff meeting.
I think our service guys had you maybe mixed up with another customer when I asked them.
I'd be happy to see if I can round up some parts for you so you can make the repair.
Can you email me directly at ... stan@fourwh.com
We can start a conversation and see what it will take to get things squared away for you?
Thanks
Stan
.
Ramblinman
Senior Member
I have 3 of these on the rear below the man door. PIA
Roaming_Eagle
Advanced Member
@Ramblinman
I had the same problem on my 08' I wound up replacing all exterior screws with high-end stainless. Just right at 300 screws.
I had the same problem on my 08' I wound up replacing all exterior screws with high-end stainless. Just right at 300 screws.
Bill D
Senior Member
My advice would be to stay away from stainless unless coating them with a zinc paste. The zinc is sacrificial. Once the zinc coating is gone stainless steel screw with the start to sacrifice the aluminum. Therefore, you will have to recoat them every few years.
You could also use zinc coated steel screws like FWC uses and replace them every few years.
You could also use zinc coated steel screws like FWC uses and replace them every few years.
Bill D
Senior Member
BTW FWC uses
C1022-grade steel screws with a Climaseal polymer coating over a base coat of non-electrolytically-applied zinc
C1022-grade steel screws with a Climaseal polymer coating over a base coat of non-electrolytically-applied zinc
whoa, that sounds like something you won't find easily, or ???Bill D said:
CougarCouple
Senior Member
I saw aluminum metal screws this past weekend, and wondered why I have not seen them mentioned here,
Russ
Russ
craig333
Riley's Human
Just did a quick google and c1022 screws show up on amazon, walmart, grainger etc.
Bill D
Senior Member
They won't be strong as steel screws. There are also different aluminum alloys. You would need to chose one that is sacrificial to the aluminum used on the camper skin. I have now idea what alloy of aluminum is used.CougarCouple said:
As you can see from the chart below Magnesium, Zinc and Beryllium are more anodic than aluminum, thus they get sacrificed during galvanic corrosion.
Bottom line... zinc plated steel screws get used because they are strong and the zinc coating is sacrificial to the aluminum camper skin.
craig333
Riley's Human
Nice chart, thanks.
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