Mounting a Second Solar Panel On a Hawk

Statements like this just make me cringe and want to run away "#2 According to Zamp; MPPT controllers only effectively optimizes power input to the batteries if you have 1,000w or more." The BS is just oozing out of that statement.

Phil, I could complicate things by quoting the amps and volts (nuts and bolts?) of the panels you have and are considering, but won't unless you ask me to. Just be aware that those panels are not going to give you the 250W on the roof that you hope for. I was just looking at the ZAMP website, and details on their panels are hard to find. That said, their 170 "Legacy" panel will only produce 135W under ideal conditions. Under ideal conditions, a MPPT controller can get all 170W out of the panel. Ideal never happens though.
 
And if it were me, I'd go with a bigger single panel up on top, with a MPPT controller.

And yes, the Victron or Chinese knock off Battery monitors are independent units. Well worth having.
 
Vic,

All you say rings true and the "1,000w" statement from Zamp had me tilting my head and frowning but since I have no technical knowledge, yet, in this arena I just let it slide. It does seem that there is a break point where the MPPT becomes superior to a PWM; see #36 comments.

Single large panel and MPPT does indeed make sense if feasible.

Question for you or anybody 'listening': Who makes the most efficient and dependable solar panels? I want a rigid panel so the mounting on my rails will be straight forward. Are the Zamp panels high quality? Why did FWC go to Overland panels?

So thanks for being patient with my endless questions. I will get this.

Phil

Ps...Just found this statement in a 2018 article: May be a course correction in my thinking.

Stan: We were using Zamp solar panels and controllers, but the Overland Solar 160-watt panel and MPPT controller is a much higher quality. Overland Solar’s technology is better and offers improved output with a lighter weight. We have tested the system for months both in the sun, in the shade, and inside the building. The output is better in every aspect; especially when part of the panel is shaded. We also dropped 12 to 15 pounds of weight off the roof. With a pop-up camper that has a manual roof lift, roof weight is important.


https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/tcm-exclusive-2018-four-wheel-camper-announcements/
 
Vic Harder said:
Statements like this just make me cringe and want to run away "#2 According to Zamp; MPPT controllers only effectively optimizes power input to the batteries if you have 1,000w or more." The BS is just oozing out of that statement.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was holding my tongue a bit yesterday when I replied.. But I want to say it.. I've dealt w/ three solar companies in my short 6 months or so in this hobby, and all of them either have no engineers and are simply reselling Chinese products they don't know much about.. Or they're the kind of engineer who thinks they're super hot stuff, and no one else understands anything, so they go way out of their way to talk down to their customers. I even told one of the guys, you don't need to keep it simple, my degree is in EE. But still.. spoke to me like an uneducated child.

Wallowa said:
Question for you or anybody 'listening': Who makes the most efficient and dependable solar panels? I want a rigid panel so the mounting on my rails will be straight forward. Are the Zamp panels high quality? Why did FWC go to Overland panels?
Click to expand...
Any panel using the 'Sun Power' cells will be the most efficient at the moment, I think.. Though, this stuff changes fast so I may be wrong. But, they are likely not the most durable, as most using those cells are flexible panels, which seem to die faster than the rigid ones.

Those overland solar panels are good, using the sunpower cells. But, they're super expensive for what they are. You can get panels for 1/4 of the price with the same cells and efficiency. (And they're one of the companies who spoke way down to me, while the people at Sol-Go were actually helpful.. and they have panels w/ the same cells for 1/4 the price.. But I have not tried them, and there's not a lot of info about them out there).

Anyway, like I said, I've only been researching solar for the past 1/2 year or less, so someone more experienced will likely have better advice. And, I only researched 12v panels built for RV/camping stuff. But, I figured I'd share what I know. As Vic always says, maybe consider the bigger house panels.
 
Wicked 1,

Hey, an EE, not an easy course of study! I was a biological oceanographer and Diving Safety Officer...so anything electrical scares me! Normally I can smell out the tripe and like you sense when someone is talking down to me.

Rigid vs Semi-flexible [Overland] and durability / longevity is a new realm for me to investigate. The MPPT approach makes sense, but as you so succinctly state the solar technology is anything but static. Need to also match my existing Hawk wiring capacities to any changes I make.

Vic mentioned a single large panel to come on the market that is reasonably priced. Hope to find out more; who and when.

Hate to discard fairly new ['16] Zamp 160w and 80w [portable]; plus install new controller and a monitor. If the utility of such a jump and the cost vs benefit then I am all in.

When AGMs croak I may also jump to LiPo4 batteries to get past that "50%" limit on the AGMs.

I am approaching getting more usable amps when off grid by increasing input and the availability within the battery bank.

Anyway...yet again, thanks for the insights.

Phil

Ps...Just checked Sol-Go; flexible panels and owned by SunPower....
 
FYI, the Sol-Go panels specs closely match the Zamp panels. I think they'd be safe to mix.

But they are flexible, and you'd need to build a frame for them.
Not too tough, and there are plenty of posts about doing it here on this forum with the Overland panels. Basically just build an aluminum rectangle w/ a couple cross members for supporting the panel. A few pieces of Z channel to mount the aluminum frame to the top of the camper.
 
THE most efficient? I'm not sure. I like using products from Canadian Solar, since I am in Canada (pretty sure they are made in China though) because they are pushing the envelope in high power, low maintenance gear. I believe most panels are hail proof, so that should say something about toughness. I'd be inclined to go with the highest power available, but that is often super expensive. Staying out of the top 5% of "the best" often results in big savings, and not just when talking about solar!

665W panels are here! - http://pardot.canadiansolar.com/series-7

(no affiliation ... )
 
Vic Harder said:
THE most efficient?
Click to expand...
If their specs are accurate, the sunpower cells are almost 24% efficient. While most on the market are 18-20%. The ones you just linked specify 21.4. That's all I based my "most efficient" comment on. Otherwise, I have no real world experience.
Plus the sunpower cells have that lower voltage drop when they're shaded which makes them 2x more shade tolerant. (meaning two leaves falling on the panel will kill it, instead of one.. Which either way is not great, heh)
 
I vacillated between rigid and flexible and finally went with 3 HQST 100 W flexible panels mounted with velcro. The velcro provides about a 3/16" gap and has held up just fine on several trips. I'm still concerned about heat so come summer, I'll have a small USB temperature logger (it normally monitors the fridge) slipped under a panel and I'll be checking the top with an IR thermometer. If heat is a problem, I will add a layer of 1/2" polycarbonate under the panels, again with velcro.

As to reliability issues, HQST has a 5 year warranty - if they are still around in 5 years. Renogy has a similar warranty and is probably a better bet to be around in 5 years. Renogy had problems with their first line of flexible panels but they replaced them. If one of the 3 panels fails, I can bypass it - I made sure my MC4 cables are long enough - and I still have 200 W left.

wicked1 said:
Yeah, I was holding my tongue a bit yesterday when I replied.. But I want to say it.. I've dealt w/ three solar companies in my short 6 months or so in this hobby, and all of them either have no engineers and are simply reselling Chinese products they don't know much about.. Or they're the kind of engineer who thinks they're super hot stuff, and no one else understands anything, so they go way out of their way to talk down to their customers. I even told one of the guys, you don't need to keep it simple, my degree is in EE. But still.. spoke to me like an uneducated child.
Click to expand...
This just happens way too often.
 
Just called PKYS and talked to Peter their tech person. The Victron controller only kicks in at 5 volts above the battery voltage. Zamps are rated at 18 volts. He also said the even at 19 volts [14+5] the MPPT would not optimize the amperage going into the battery, "Sweet Spot", it needs higher voltages. Even if you put panels in series to increase the voltage the MPPT with differing size panels the controller will not optimizer the power going into the batteries as it searches for best input or so-called Sweet Spot.

So the conundrum; with the Victron controller the optimal way to derive the benefit of the MPPT is to be using one panel of sufficient voltage to trigger the controller and give the optimal battery power input.

For me, whether I add another Zamp panel [90w] or not the MPPT is not going to give me a higher input of power to the batteries than my current Zamp PWM controller will provide. Too bad the partial shading of the panels to a degree is compensated for by a MPPT controller search/optimizing available power input to the batteries.

Solution: Add a higher out-put voltage single panel and then install the MPPT to optimize the power going into the batteries for a given size [Watts] panel. Currently no single large panel will fit on the roof of my Hawk.

I must be over thinking this and chasing my tail. PWM + another 90 w Zamp and keeping to 18 volt output is realistically my sole option. I simply do not have the roof space between, in-front of or behind the two roof vents for a single large [watts] panel.

Will buy the Victron battery monitor and perhaps go to LiPo4 batteries in the future.

If some of this is inaccurate, please chime in and clarify. I am still in my learning curve and the slope is steep!

Interesting that FWC does not offer dual roof mounted panels or a single high output panel; now that they are using the Victron Solar Smart MPPT controller. Wonder what the specs are on the current portable plug in panel? Assume it is also an Overland Sunpower panel

Thanks All,

Phil
 
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out panel placement on our Fleet. You should be able to mount a single large panel on the front passenger side of the Hawk, running lengthwise. You have about 40" width by the length of the roof. You can then go to a 24 V panel (and maybe 500 W to boot).

There is also room for two narrow flexible panels on each side of the front vent, if you are up for working with flexible panels.
 
Jack, thanks. By "on the front passenger side", do you mean the vertical sidewall below the roof or along the passenger side of the roof? Not sold on flexible panels due to installation.

My existing Zamp 160 sits between the two roof vents and goes from rail to rail [58+"]; panel is 26" wide. So no further space on roof for large panel and Zamp seems to be the only company with a narrow and long [58"] panel.

Max space between vents is 38 inches and like explained only 22" of usable rail aft of the rear vent.

FWC did not answer my request for information concerning utilizing current production Overland panels, controller and portable.

All the Canadian Solar [China], that Vic told us about, only have panels way too large [L&W] for the Hawk with 2 vent and with FWC rail placement.

No bigee..I will figure it out.

Phil
 
You might need the longer bars, but the frame should raise the panel above the Yakima towers. When lifting the roof, the weight will be off center, but no heavier.

CCF20201125_00000.jpg
 
The Overland Solar 160 watt flexible panel that FWC uses now is rated at 32.76 volts. Paired with their house branded Victron MPPT charge controller, their system apparently works well. Their panel uses the Maxeon III 23.7% efficient cells and are internally wired such that some shading does not totally stop all solar energy.

I’m considering their solar blanket using the Maxeon III cells with as a portable unit.

Paul
 
Jack...nice view of the panel mount!

My parameters are not to drill any holes in my single sheet FWC roof and to overload the roof with additional weight beyond my ability to grunt it up and safely lower it. Stouter lifter 'shocks' may be needed.

May have a pretty good solution to mounting a second panel to my roof; using these towers with 3m adhesive tape, https://amsolar.com/rv-solar-panel-kit/mounting-accessories. Solid mounts and can be removed without damaging roof or any drilling.

This should enable me to go larger that 90ws for second panel aft of rear vent.

Still discussing all this with folks at AM Solar here in Springfield, Oregon. FYI they use Zamp panels and Victron Controllers; will discuss this with them after T-Day. They seem to have their stuff together and be professional.

Phil
 
PaulT said:
The Overland Solar 160 watt flexible panel that FWC uses now is rated at 32.76 volts. Paired with their house branded Victron MPPT charge controller, their system apparently works well. Their panel uses the Maxeon III 23.7% efficient cells and are internally wired such that some shading does not totally stop all solar energy.

I’m considering their solar blanket using the Maxeon III cells with as a portable unit.

Paul
Click to expand...
about their portable "bugout 130" panel, it operates at a lower voltage, more similar to the Zamp panels. So, if you have the Overland 160 panel on the roof, the Overland Bugout 130 panel is a problem, as it operates at about 10v lower voltage than the 160 panel.

So basically, plug in the 130, you sacrifice 50ish watts of power, for the purpose of adding a bit over 100 watts of power. Sort of making your 130w portable panel a 65w panel.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]See mounting tower information and instructions below[/SIZE]..seems like a winner...

[SIZE=10.5pt]More and more leaning toward staying with existing Zamp 160w roof and 80w portable and adding another Zamp panel; with these towers I am looking at the GS 200w panel [see below] on AM Solar products page[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]but it has an output voltage of 20.4v as opposed to other Zamps 18 volts....dimensionally it would fit aft of rear vent.

[SIZE=10.5pt]Will the differential of 20+volts vs 18volts be a no-go?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Still in the hunt for Victron controller and monitor....hey, in a penny in a pound! Next year LiPo4s?[/SIZE]

Had a light bulb moment; I can't exceed the height of my current 160W panel on the roof by more that 1/2inch and still get the Tundra/Hawk through my shop door...those towers have differing height legs..

Phil


[SIZE=10.5pt]https://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/edmounts[/SIZE]

https://amsolar.com/rv-panel-klts/11s-tlt-gs200
 
Phil, I'm confused when you say only a 58" long panel will fit. The panel does not have to fit within the rails. It just has to be narrower than the width of your Hawk, which is 84", is it not?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads - WTW

R
Solar Issue - Resolved
Jon R
J
R
Rear solar SAE port
Deancamp
D
W
30 Amp Extension Cord Required For A 2016 Hawk "Shore" Power ?
2
ckent323
C
A
Advice on Hawk in short short bed
Aj1978
A
P
Custom backup camera mount
parrotcam
P

New posts - WTW

Back
Top Bottom