New Electrical System

[scheefdog]

My camper is completely gutted and needs a new electrical system(my camper only had wiring for lights before). I have been reading up on RV electrical systems and this site gave a really good basic explanation for anyone learning about this stuff.
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

I did further research on what sort of electrical distribution panels people are using and it seems like the WFCO or Iota charger/converter is a popular. However, I stumbled across the Tripp Lite charger/inverter and I think that is the route I am going to go. It seems to simplify things a lot since the entire 120v side of the the system(including a charger) is basically plug and play in nice enclosed box with controls and everything. You just have to connect a deep cycle battery and/or shore power This is the unit I am talking about, can found online for $280.
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=818&txtModelID=2938

For those of you who have inverters, do you think 750 watts continuous(1500 boost) is sufficient? I want to run a mac laptop, cell phone charger, LED lights(4@1amp), vent fans(2@ 1.8amps), and maybe a stereo. Tripp Lite also makes a 1250 watt inverter model that has a higher amp charger that sells for about $100 more. The 750 watt inverter has a 3 stage 20amp charger, whereas the 1250 watt model has a 30 amp charger. I don't think the charger is a big deal since I will just be running one 100ah battery.

Here is a schematic of how I am thinking of setting up the whole system with the DC side as well. Hopefully I will add solar at some point, but right now my budget is too tight. Already it looks like this electrical system will end up around $500(not including lights).

I am new to this so if you have any suggestions please let me know. I am hoping to order some of the stuff by the end of the week.

 

[Desert Rancher]

Inverters-Determine the amount of load (watts) you want to run and get an inverter sized for that. Inverters use up power themselves, so using a "big" inverter to run a small load will waste power.

I run a 19" LCD tv and a Directv receiver and charge cell phones at the same time on a 300w inverter. For comparison, I have an 800w that uses about 0.8 amp more to run the same load.

Hope that helps.

Also, here is a neat wire size calculator.
http://beta.circuitwizard.bluesea.com/#

 

[chnlisle]

Or you could use an extension chord and a battery charger.

 

[scheefdog]

I thought about an extension cord and a battery charger. I'm not opposed to that idea. What would you recommend for a charger? I would want one that was permanently mounted in the camper so all I have to do is plug in the extension cord.

I would also need to get a decent inverter that was around 700 watts. Again, any suggestions?

 

[pods8]

I personally like the look of the WFCO or progressive dynamic converters/distribution centers personally. You get a decent AC breaker box, DC fuse panel, and 120V to 12V DC charger/convector all in one nice package. Those only run ~150. I don't need a big inverter and definitely don't need to back feed it into the AC electrical system, just plugging a small inverter in to a 12V socket works just fine for me to charge up various batteries, etc.

 

[UglyScout]

On your wiring diagram where does the 12v charge from the truck come in? It is super handy to have the truck charge the camper while you are rolling along.

Also, with the marine switch where it is, you can plug youself in to shore power and not charge your battery. I know it is as simple as flipping a switch but it isn't idiot proof and I am an idiot. Does your inverter in the link allow you to wire in remotley located 120v plugs? I really like having a plug on the counter top...

 

[scheefdog]

Thanks for all the input guys. This is great with helping me decide what to do.

Pods-I guess the extra wiring with the WFCO is intimidating to me. However, when I stop and think about it, really it is simple. Hmmm. I might have to look more into that option. Have you wired one of the WFCOs from scratch? What other components would I need?

Scout- As of now I wasn't going to run a charge from the truck(I can see how it would be handy though). I should read into that more, but I don't want to complicate things too much by having to change anything on my truck.

Anyone with a 1st gen Tundra out there have any advice on setting this up?

That is true with the marine switch, I think I could actually eliminate it all together if I wanted. The Tripp Lite has its own shutoff switch and the 12v DC electrical panel is has switches to turn everything off. It might be worth putting in a master switch for the whole 12v side?

 

[pods8]

Pods-I guess the extra wiring with the WFCO is intimidating to me. However, when I stop and think about it, really it is simple. Hmmm. I might have to look more into that option. Have you wired one of the WFCOs from scratch? What other components would I need?


There would be less wiring with one than what you propose since it cuts out the extra line from the battery to the fuse block you are showing (the fuse block would be integral to the WFCO unit which would take the place of the tripp lite so only one line to the battery is needed). No I haven't wired one yet but I'll either be using a WFCO 8735 or progressive dynamics 4045 on the camper I'm building. (Right now I'm giving the nod to the PD 4045, can be found for ~$150 through some ebay sellers).

 

[oldnslow]

You will only need about 150-200 Watss from your inverter to run a Mac and cell phone charger. Everything else you have is running from 12V from the battery and not from the inverter. But I have not seen an inverter that small that includes a battery charger. You would have to run a separate charger.

I was not able to look at the Tripplite unit (their website is down for maintenance) but what you are doing looks reasonable to me. The Tripplite company has a good reputation IMO.

 

[davinski]

Electrical systems are nice because they add a lot of convenience to the campers. Here is one more suggestion....

I have practically eliminated all AC equipment when I travel now. everything is DC. This way, no need for any of the AC stuff. Sure, I do have an inverter that I can plug in should the need arise, but that is rare.

My Macbook air is powered off of DC 12v. So are all the battery chargers for cameras, cell phones, AA cells. The radio gear is also all DC 12v. The built in lights are all DC (and soon to be converted to LED) and the fan is as well. Water pump for shower and such is also 12v. Frig is 12 V. Since I am rarely near AC, charging this way really isn't something that would happen often. I charge when I drive. Solar when the Sun is cooperating.

Keep it simple. Makes life less complex and there is less gear to worry about.

Just one more opinion.

Good luck!
Dave

 

[Barko1]

Electrical systems are nice because they add a lot of convenience to the campers. Here is one more suggestion....

I have practically eliminated all AC equipment when I travel now. everything is DC. This way, no need for any of the AC stuff. Sure, I do have an inverter that I can plug in should the need arise, but that is rare.



Depends on what your use will be. Like Dave I rarely use AC but I don't run a TV (although you can get a DC TV). Air conditioning needs AC, same with a microwave, but without those just a small inverter will do. Charge from the vehicle when traveling and solar when at camp.

 

[Hittheroad]

Depends on what your use will be. Like Dave I rarely use AC but I don't run a TV (although you can get a DC TV). Air conditioning needs AC, same with a microwave, but without those just a small inverter will do. Charge from the vehicle when traveling and solar when at camp.

We carry a small 500watt ac vacum cleaner with us that helps with cleaning and is useful for blowing dust out of the propane burner in the fridge unit, etc.. One could easily get by without it. I have never had need for more than 500w and most of the time just use a 200w converter for grinding coffee, charging laptop etc. Our 600w converter eats power and has a fan to remind you how fast the battery is going down.

 

[scheefdog]

Thanks guys! I think you are right, I could get by with only 12 volt. I looked around and I can get a 12v charger for my Macbook which was my biggest concern. I actually really like the idea of just charging off the vehicle and having solar, I just need to figure out a system. Do any of you have a schematic of how you setup yours?

I have been looking at solar. Some people are running a small 5, 10, 15 watt panel to "trickle" charge their battery. How long does one of these take to charge a 100ah battery? Looks like I could pickup a Sunforce panel and a 7amp charge for around $100. Sounds appealing.

Or am I better off spending a little bit more and getting a real panel. How big of panel would I want? 35, 60, 80? This 80 watt panel for $150 seems to be a good deal(only 20lbs as well). Is there an affordable charge controller that someone would recommend?
http://www.solarblvd.com/Solar-Panels-&-Systems-Individual-Solar-Panels-55---95-Watt-%287%29/c1_25_41/p1331/Solar-Cynergy-80-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panel/product_info.html

I found this solar install thread that steered me towards the above site for a panel, and has great info on installing-
http://www.wanderthewest.com/forum/index.php?/topic/4014/

To give you an idea of how I plan on using my camper- It will mostly be used for extended weekend trips. Driving on Friday which would top off the battery for the weekend. Then I will be using power during the evenings and my camper will sit in the sun all day(I love CO!). Running LED lights, vent fan, charging cellphone, and using laptop(for a max of a couple hours) during the evenings.

 

[UglyScout]

Your usage sounds a lot like mine - I do not have an integral inverter or solar on my system and it works fine. I charge before I leave home, charge while I drive and it has lasted 3 very cold nights with the heater running a lot without running the truck. Still had plenty of power when I headed for home. A normal 2 night weekend with the heater running makes almost no dent in the battery.

I use led lights, 12v water pump, the heater and a small inverter for charging stuff and that is about it.

It it were my camper I would wire it all up for solar now, but not buy or install the solar until I have used the camper a few times to see if I really need it. If you are only doing weekends I think you will be fine without it.

Now if you plan to get a 12v fridge -- maybe add the solar now. I plan to remove my non-working 2-way fridge and go with a 12v fridge. But still not run solar, if I drive at least every couple days I will be fine, heater usage and fridger usage in my part of the country are inversely proportional so I figure it will balance out.

 

[leadsled9]

I have been looking at solar. Some people are running a small 5, 10, 15 watt panel to "trickle" charge their battery. How long does one of these take to charge a 100ah battery? Looks like I could pickup a Sunforce panel and a 7amp charge for around $100. Sounds appealing.

Or am I better off spending a little bit more and getting a real panel. How big of panel would I want? 35, 60, 80? This 80 watt panel for $150 seems to be a good deal(only 20lbs as well). Is there an affordable charge controller that someone would recommend?
http://www.solarblvd...oduct_info.html



I waited until Solar Blvd had a sale and picked up a 120 watt panel for $222 and it only weighs 20 lbs. If you can swing it I'd recommend installing the solar system now. I have two 100 ah batteries and the solar system pretty much keeps up with my electrical needs (I have about the same usage as you).

I also have a 1000 watt inverter for the occasional times when 110 volts is needed (girlfriend likes her hair dryer etc.) such as to run my tv to watch a movie.

My camper came with the IOTA distribution panel and it is nice being able to hook up to shore power at times. It just gives you more flexablity.

 

[pods8]

Do any of you have a schematic of how you setup yours?


If I was going to use a Progressive Dynamic 4045 or WFCO 8735 here is how I'd modify your sketch:

 

[pods8]

Do any of you have a schematic of how you setup yours?


If I was going to use a Progressive Dynamic 4045 or WFCO 8735 here is how I'd modify your sketch:

It it were my camper I would wire it all up for solar now, but not buy or install the solar until I have used the camper a few times to see if I really need it. If you are only doing weekends I think you will be fine without it.

Now if you plan to get a 12v fridge -- maybe add the solar now. I plan to remove my non-working 2-way fridge and go with a 12v fridge. But still not run solar, if I drive at least every couple days I will be fine, heater usage and fridger usage in my part of the country are inversely proportional so I figure it will balance out.


Based on your usage I'd agree with this suggestion.

 

[scheefdog]

So I think I'm figuring out what I want to do...I did a couple of online calculators for rv power usage and think that an 80 watt panel would meet my requirements(with a 100ah battery).

I'm thinking I would like to start off with solar, if it isn't enough for my usage then I'll add in charging from the truck...After just reading Sunmans story I think keeping the camper and truck electrical systems separate is smart if I can make it work.

This is what I'm thinking for my solar setup, on solarblvd.com I'm thinking of ordering-
Solar Cynergy 80 Watt 12 Volt Solar Panel $159
Morningstar Sunsaver SS-6 6A, 12V PWM Charge Controller $38.22
Z Bracket Aluminum Flush Mount Kit $9
AEE Digital Volt Meter $35.28 (or something to monitor the battery)

for a total of about $250 not including wiring(which I need to figure out still)

Then I will stick with the ATC fuse block and DC electric panel as I have outlined already.

I'm loving the feedback so please keep it coming, like I said in my original post I'm looking to order stuff asap to start installing. Thanks!

 

[scheefdog]

The other charge controller I'm thinking about is the GoPower GP-25, which is quite a bit more at $120, but has a digital display and everything to monitor everything(so I wouldn't have to get a voltmeter).

http://www.gpelectric.com/content/products/ViewProduct/?i=GP-PWM-25

 

[K7MDL]

Something to keep in mind for the LCD TV users, most I have seen and own run off 12VDC via a Wall Wart. Take a look at the back panel or the wall wart and it usually lists the input and output voltage and current. I toss most of my wall warts and run my gear off a 12V fuse panel from a 12VDC power supply at home. Works for campers also! You just have to gather the confidence to cut off the wire from the wall wart, or make your own replacement DC cable/plug.

When shopping for electronic gear I look for devices that run off 12V. Many run on 5V these days so look carefully. My DSL modem, wireless routers, LCD monitors, desk lamps and amplified computer speaker system all run off 12V. That is a lot of wall warts not robbing power, creating radio interference, and taking up space and crowding outlets.